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ZipFit vs Conformable vs Intuition - Page 4

post #91 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJO View Post
With custom liners, you don't necessarily have to have a foot bed? I'm assuming that this may depend on the volume of the shell compared with the volume of your foot and the thickness of the liner?

Thanks,
CJ
I asked that question of Intuition about the ID Gold that comes with the Kryptons and their reply is to use a footbed because DalBello liners have a thinner insole, 7mm VS 9-12mm's.

So it depends on which of their liners you are using.
post #92 of 259

Info From Intuition

Another bit of info I received from them is that the bake time for the liners is 12-15 minutes; no more. I asked them this because a ski shop told me they bake them for 45 minutes. Intuition stated that the longer heating time (3 times normal) will use up 3 of the liners moldings so your 1st molding would equal three moldings. They also stated there is no added benefit in doing this.

As for toe caps they stated to use toe caps unless there is way too much room to begin with.
post #93 of 259

Question On Molding Intuitions For Flex

I have the Krypton Pros with the Gold ID liner and will be getting them molded Friday. I read somewhere in this forum, that since after molding the liner is it so stiff , it helps to have the #4 wedge inserted to give you more forward lean. This would give you a head start on flexing the boot. I think this was so you wouldn't bend your knees to flex.

My questions are:

1) If you are going to use a wedge, is it better to have it in before the molding? I don't think it would matter much since you are supposed to be able to change the flex and the forward lean, but I wanted to check.

2) Even if you are expecting to be using the soft footbed, should you put the hard foot bed in for molding? My thoughts are that there will then be more molding towards the foot and less towards the foot board.

3) Am I thinking about this way too much?

Thanks,
Ken
post #94 of 259
A question for the OP, or anyone else who might know...

In comparing the three liners, one thing not mentioned was warmth. For those of us with chronically frost bitten big toes, is one of these noticeably warmer than the others?

(I must admit that I skimmed, and did not read this entire thread... so I hope this hasn't already been addressed. )
post #95 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJO View Post
I am new to these liners and had a couple questions... Do these liners work better than the heat-formable liners made by various boot manufacturers? In my case, I have the moldable liners by Technica.
Yes.
post #96 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
A question for the OP, or anyone else who might know...

In comparing the three liners, one thing not mentioned was warmth. For those of us with chronically frost bitten big toes, is one of these noticeably warmer than the others?

(I must admit that I skimmed, and did not read this entire thread... so I hope this hasn't already been addressed. )
The intuitions are definitely the warmest of the three.
post #97 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiDeC58 View Post
The intuitions are definitely the warmest of the three.
Great, any idea how they would compare to the stock moldable liners in my Technica Diablo Magnesiums (from 2 yrs ago) is this respect? I broke down and got hotronics put in my footbeds last year, but I still froze on a couple of -20ish days so I'm always looking for a way to keep my toes warmer! Of course the added performance and stiffness would be nice too, the Magnesiums ARE feeling a little softer than I think I would like...
post #98 of 259
I also have very cold feet (bad circulation). I use Intuitions AND Hotronics AND BootGloves.---Go ahead, call me a Gaper. I don't care because my feet are now always comfortable (Even at -10F). I can't say with certainty how they compare to the Technica liners. They are thicker and denser and are generally reputed to be the warmest liners around. None the less, I still need extra warmth on cold days. YMMV.
post #99 of 259

Intuition Plugs and the alpine-tongue liners

skinnydog,
I did have the original, thick PowerWraps a few years ago..thick all over....the Plug model(wrap) seems like they're even a little thinner in the upper cuff, not by much...but noticeable. Haven't seen the ones with the alpine tongues.
fwiw.....

SteveD
post #100 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydog View Post
Has anyone tried these with the tongue? I know, it's probably too early in the season. Just wondering if there is any advantage to having a traditional tongue versus the overlap style.
I'd imagine the ones with the tongue would be better for touring boots then the wrap arounds.
post #101 of 259
I had posted earlier in this thread about having Intuition liners made for older Solly boots in Jan. of 07. This weekend, I bought a pair of Nordica Speedmachine 14's that Philpug was selling for a friend. As we are Philly guys, I went to his shop to check for fit and condition. I transferred my Intuition liners into the Nordicas and the fit is great without recooking. Both new and old boots were 29.0. The liners do take up more bootspace and the buckle system simply needed minor readjusting to close properly. Once adjusted, the Nordica/Intuition combination provides a tighter fit around my feet. My experience with the Intuitions has been great - warm, comfortable and smooth surface to get into and out of boots.
post #102 of 259
Thread Starter 
Wow..this thread is still going from last year. First time I have checked the boards since last March.

After a season of hard skiing in the Intuitions they are still like new. No complaints yet. I just took out my gear and am getting ready for the season here in the East.

Regarding the question on warmth, I have not had any issues with either of the three brands. Then again, I never really had any problems with cold feet when skiing.
post #103 of 259
I'm going to get Intuition Powerwraps as a temporary stiffening solution for my Salomon Ellipse 7.0's (7.0 = 70 flex, I assume) because they're just really soft for me, and I can't quite get new boots just yet. Since they're in Vancouver this makes it very easy for me.

What do you guys think? Would it work until the end of the season? I'm planning to get new boots at the end of 08/09 season or at the start of 09/10.
post #104 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpuff View Post
I'm going to get Intuition Powerwraps as a temporary stiffening solution for my Salomon Ellipse 7.0's (7.0 = 70 flex, I assume) because they're just really soft for me, and I can't quite get new boots just yet. Since they're in Vancouver this makes it very easy for me.

What do you guys think? Would it work until the end of the season? I'm planning to get new boots at the end of 08/09 season or at the start of 09/10.
Roastpuff,
A few thoughts:

I think a shop can insert an uncooked Intuition Liner into your boots so that you can feel how much stiffer they make the boot. I have the basic wrap-around model and that means the thickness of the liner in the tounge area is doubled possibly stiffening the forward flex. The new liner will take up a lot more space in your boot.

When Skiing-in-Jackson did my boots, he was concerned that the old boots were just too big by todays measuring standards as there was a lot of space in the boot behind my ankle. You may not able to downsize to a smaller boot and reuse the liner.
If you can reuse the liner in a future boot, you get a better liner, but still pay for the new boots.

There is also the cost issue. I spent about $200 for the liners and $100 for a new custom footbed. S-I-J raised the possibility that I'd be wasteing money if I decided to buy new boots in the near future. My plan was to get last year and this year and then reuse the footbed. I got a deal on a very slightly used, new last year boot and transferred the liners.

Bottom line, short term turn around will not save you money and you accept some risk. Knowing what I know now, I'd have lived with my old liners for 15 ski days and bought new.

HOpe this helps.
post #105 of 259
Thread Starter 
Thought I would add a few comments:

Got my boots out for the season.

The gel on the ZipFits are cracking in the green gel-area by the instep and forefoot. I am not sure if this was due to heat and humidty or perhaps I stored them improperly in the boot over the summer. This did not happen last year.

After a season of hard skiing with the intuitions, they look as good as new -- with an exception. There are some abbrasions and scuffing on the area where the tongue normally would be, but nothing is breaking down.

The Conformables are starting to smell like a pair of socks that have been worn in Death Valley for two months straight. I noticed at the end of last season they had a bit of aroma, even when it was still cold. Tried some foot powder. Conformables do not deal with mositure and sweat that well from the inside.
post #106 of 259
I have narrow feet (well, medium width in the forefoot) and very narrow ankle and lower leg.

After a couple of fitting sessions and about 10 days skiing, I'm loving a new pair of Nordica Dobermann Pro 130's. However, I'm having to use a pair of Insta-Print Elimintors (foam inserts) to minimize shin bang -- ongoing problem.

Question: If/when the liners pack out, which of the aftermarket liners would provide the best shin protection?

Thanks.

Rick

PS It's funny how things come back around. In high school my favorite pair of boots were Nordica Grand Prix (got 'em used from a ski patroller for $70)... and the Dobermanns are basically updated versions of that model.
post #107 of 259
Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to try the new intuition liners with the tongue.
Thanks, John
post #108 of 259
,
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
it helps to have the #4 wedge inserted to give you more forward lean. This would give you a head start on flexing the boot. I think this was so you wouldn't bend your knees to flex.
I've never done this and would recommend against this. You need the liner to be as tight as possible in the shaft of the boot. Poor moldings don't keep the liner cuffs tight enough around the calf/shin and are an instand source of shin bang. Eliminate any space that would add to this issue, certainly don't add anything . Besides the boot/liner combo isn't that stiff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
1) If you are going to use a wedge, is it better to have it in before the molding? I don't think it would matter much since you are supposed to be able to change the flex and the forward lean, but I wanted to check.
see above

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
2) Even if you are expecting to be using the soft footbed, should you put the hard foot bed in for molding? My thoughts are that there will then be more molding towards the foot and less towards the foot board.
I have molded them numerous times with either boot board in place. I see no differences between the two. Ideally, you should have a quality footbed duct taped to your foot, so the impression on the liner would be nil anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
3) Am I thinking about this way too much?
No. That is unpossible. Almost.

What size toe caps are you going to use?
post #109 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post
,

What size toe caps are you going to use?
I posted with the questions in October and had them molded in November. There is a long sordid story with the molding process and the shop I used. Since I like the shop/store I wont get into it but they did things wrong, verified by Intuition and Dalbello. No I won't say what shop. If you go to a shop and they say they want to mold the liner for 40 minutes (I didn't let them do that to mine), you're probably in the shop I was in.

I have an email from Intuition answering my questions about this stores process and Intuition stated that heating for 40 minutes takes life out of the boot needlessly. 12-15 minutes max.

No toe caps against my wishes. They said the proper way was to leave the footbed (Superfeet) in the boot. I questioned this but since they were warrantying their work I agreed.

When I checked the liner under the foot bed there is evidence of the footbed molding into the liner.

In their defense, I went skiing this past Sunday and after a few runs and a few more adjustments, the boots felt great. So much so that when everyone else was taking their new boots off at lunch to give their feet a break, I left mine on with them buckled because they felt perfect.

I had difficulty walking in them up and down stairs but I just spent a couple of hours dailing them in and didn't want to loose it. I could wiggle my toes but my foot was completely enveloped. It is a very snug fit with no pressure points.

I did leave the #4 wedge in. I skied with it in at first but then took it out. I'm planning on trying it in again now that the boots are dialed in. Mainly just trying different things.

I was happy with the service, not happy the process, but I'm very happy with the fit of the boots.
post #110 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
...Iwhen everyone else was taking their new boots off at lunch to give their feet a break, I left mine on with them buckled because they felt perfect......

......It is a very snug fit with no pressure points.

.
My sentiments exactly.

I had Keith at the pro ski and ride at hunter mountain mold mine and they are perfect.

I put them in a 10yo pair of Dachstein shells.

They just rock. Totally warm and no shin bang.

When I get new boots I will get daleboot to make shells using my liners.

It will actually be cheaper since other companies wont sell shells only.

I forgot to mention, mine are powerwraps.


Johnny
post #111 of 259

I've Encountered A New Problem

So the Krypton Pro's with the Gold ID are so warm my feet get cold!

In order to keep my feet warm I have to change my sock every couple of hours.

I'm going to try the anti-perspertant on the feet trick but at the temp my feet get to, it will have to be Sasquatch strength!

I considered undoing the buckles while in the lift line and on the lift, but I'm still spending a bit of time getting them just right so I'm leary of doing that.

Anyone else have this with these liners?
post #112 of 259
Yes, as I noted a few pages earlier I had the same problem with wet feet but I used extra doses of anti-perspirant last week and also buckled the boots more loosely and they were both more comfortable on my shins and dryer.
The Intuitons seem to hold my foot more firmly than my previous "performance" model liners that came standard with the boots. Once you're accustomed to the Intuition fit stock liners with tight buckles feel loose. It's taken me several days to realize that my boots do not need to be buckled tightly to fit snugly with the Intuitions.
post #113 of 259
I agree that you don't need to buckle them very tight at all. Fit in the lower shell is so good that I just buckle them so the buckles don't come undone and my foot is still held solidly. I do buckle the top buckle tighter and do the power strap up tight to hold my shin tight to the liner.

Mike
post #114 of 259
Has anyone tried the new intuition liners with the tongue, the Luxury liners?

Thanks, John
post #115 of 259

Great thread

I'm glad this thread is still active over a year later so that I could catch it. There's a lot of good info in here (probably should be converted to a wiki on the new platform for Epic).

I have a good amount of experience with Intuition, original Thermoflex, and ZipFits. So I thought I'd throw in my thoughts on them here too.

I am the reason that Intuition finally makes them tall enough for most downhill boots. 4 years ago when I got my first set of Powerwraps I just couldn't get them molded tall enough without overly stretching them. Many, many emails back and forth between myself and Crystal/Rob at Intuition and they finally sent me a prototype taller liner (I also heard about the new liner they were developing with Dalbello, but I was sworn to secrecy).

My experience with the Intuition Powerwrap is that it is a much higher volume liner than either the original Raichle Thermoflex or my ZipFit Plug Leather or Grand Prix. I had a very tough time forming them for my Kryptons and still having room for my foot. The Ultralon foam though is clearly superior to the original Thermoflex - much stiffer, much warmer, and doesn't pack out as quickly. The only thing I really, really hate about the Powerwrap is that the "powerwrap" (the foam sheet glued to the outside of the liner) is tough to deal with during heating and fitting. If you're not careful you'll end up pulling up the ankle "flaps" if they catch on the shell somewhere during insertion. You also have to be careful to not buckle down too tightly and don't overly kick your heel back into the pocket (which over compresses the foam and you can end up with a loose pocket).

The original Thermoflex liners have the stiffening collar too (like the powerwrap on the Intuitions), but it's underneath the fabric overcoat of the liner. This lets the liner be fitted without having to worry about things catching during insertion. I've also found that the original Thermoflex liners are much easier to fit - much less likely to end up with any wrinkles (due to the outer fabric) and also generally lower in volume. I have many sets of the red/gray/black dual-density Thermoflex liners. An interesting tidbit is that although the recommendation is to only heat these liners 3 times or so (including Intuition Ultralon foam liners) you can heat them many more times than that. What happens? - the foam actually gets more dense with each successive heating. I have one set of Thermoflex liners that have been heated about 5 times and they actually fit me the best and provide the best performance of all my Thermoflex-type liners (of course this was pre-accident - they don't fit me anymore at the moment - they need another reheat!). They are noticeably stiffer than my other Thermoflex liners.

In the end though I'm really loving the ZipFit liners. I have two sets, the first is the Plug Leather from a couple seasons ago (purchased at Superior from Steve Bagley) and I also grabbed one of the newer Grand Prix liners off eBay (with the neoprene interior fabric). For absolute unbelievable performance you can't beat the ZipFit Plug Leather. Nothing (and I mean nothing) holds your foot as securely as a liner that has an interior layer of leather. Once that leather gets a little bit moist from your foot there's no getting out of that liner without removing it from the boot and unlacing it. I could literally ski fine with my boots barely buckled and still have phenomenal heel hold down. I love the fact that the liner's OMFit material never breaks down or compresses. The liners can be reheated over and over. Once you master the fitting process (pumping the heel to slide the flow material into the ankle channels) you can refit them anytime with ease. I also really like that they are a "dynamic" liner and I'm currently giving this liner the credit for making it possible for me to ski again. On any given day my left leg, ankle, and foot can be completely different due to my injury (swelling in different areas). The ZipFit readily re-conforms to my foot in its current state on any given day. I've only worn the ZipFits on my injured foot a few times over the past few days, but I can tell that the ZipFit is the answer to my prayers and I'm now shooting myself for not trying this liner earlier this season.

I should point out that I'm using the ZipFit in a Flexon shell. In order to do this I had to modify it a bit. First I completely removed the powerstrap that comes with it. I don't use it with the Flexons as I have Booster straps on those shells instead. The ZipFit powerstrap is just too much extra bulk and unnecessary IMO. I also removed the laces (temporarily) and chopped out most of the plastic eyelets that were over the instep. This greatly improved the comfort of the liner over my instep. I then added some tiny velcro "loops" through the slots on both sides of the collar where the powerstrap used to go through. This gives me an extra set of "eyelets" up high on the liner. Then I re-laced them just like shoes. I can easily tighten and loosen the laces now very quickly and lock them down with the friction catch thingy. The only modification I had to do to my Flexons was to make the top most bail cable longer by changing its position in the cuff. I fit them by heating the shells to 225 for 10 minutes and heating the ZipFit liner for 60 seconds at 50% power in the microwave. Put the whole thing together over your foot/leg and the resulting fit is pretty impressive. There's just a lot less to screw up compared to Thermoflex type liner fitting.

BTW - The current ZipFit liner comparable to the older Plug Leather is the new Grand Prix liner with the leather interior. There's an even lower volume liner available now called the World Cup with 20% less OMFit material. I actually had Steve B. inject more OMFit into the tongue of my Plug Leathers so I don't think I need would ever need to go with the newer World Cup version.
post #116 of 259
Great post Noodler. Wish I could try the zipfits, but no one seems to carry them in New Hampshire.
post #117 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
I agree that you don't need to buckle them very tight at all. Fit in the lower shell is so good that I just buckle them so the buckles don't come undone and my foot is still held solidly. I do buckle the top buckle tighter and do the power strap up tight to hold my shin tight to the liner.

Mike


 

I got my Intuitions over the weekend and had a chance to play around with them last night. I took the footbed with a foam heel wedge, liner, foot board and the texons, two thin one thick, that i used to compensate for the packed stock liner out and put just the footboard and new liner, no footbed in one boot. I tried both boots on and the Intuition already fits as well as my old set up, and is way more comfortable, all the hot spots are gone. Really had to crank to get the shin buckles done up but these feel soooo good. I think i'm going to get a new pair of green superfeet so i can lose the heel wedge. My question is would there be any harm in skiing these before i heat and mold them?

post #118 of 259

I have the ZipFits.  If you ever feel they are packing out, go back to a ZipFit shop and they will inject the cork-goo wherever the issue/looseness is. 

post #119 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
 My question is would there be any harm in skiing these before i heat and mold them?

From what I read here before, no.  You can ski them right out of the box and they will eventually fit your feet like any other liner would.  Molding speeds the process and feels Oh So Good!  Definitely worth it!
 

post #120 of 259

I have the Technica R130 plug boot, and attempted to get Intuitions fitted for it, but it was a no go as there was no room left for my foot.  Evidently I have a very high volume foot and high arch, so there is no way to get all of the liner and my foot into the shell of the boot. 

 

I'm wondering what other options there might be.  It's tough to find a place that has Zipfits, and I'm not sure that they won't have the same problem as the Intuitions.  What do you guys think?  Go for the Zipfit Worldcup Leather?

 

Mike

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