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crass advertising copy - Page 2

post #31 of 56
When did poundkey quit Salomon??
post #32 of 56
The "Piss Christ" wasn't so "bad" at all. It's a photograph. The controversy has to do with the title and how the picture was made. You could certainly make it a different way and it would be no big deal. Really a lot of to do about nothing.
here it is scsa: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~twt/serrano.html
post #33 of 56
"blah blah blah, blah, blah blah....blah blah blah..." Talk to the hand! I have to say that I agree with Yuki, the ad was stupid. But, I don't think it has signaled the end of ski life as we know it! I just ignore it and pass it off as a semi-funny ad by a ski company I don't like anyway...but then that's my own opinion... How people got from that to deciding who should and shouldn't be on the slopes is beyond me! We're talking absolute arrogance now... I don't like a lot of people, but then I can be a real ass myself. I just try not to prove it to the free world...(I sometimes hate the fact that I'm becoming an old fart...)
post #34 of 56
Yeah. Careful. I'm a recovering Catholic.
post #35 of 56
If you kids don't stop fighting, I'm going to turn this car right around and go home!
post #36 of 56
Haven't been keeping up in awhile but it's really scary to see that I wholeheartedly agree with and thank Gonzo here for his input!! Also, thanks to Yuki for presenting a very touchy, almost political subject

It seems to me that we are living in a world (or should I say nation) where declining morals are protected as a "freedom", and the media (generalization for all forms) reinforces the presumption that children (25 and under) know better and are wiser than the majority adults.

Seems to me that it has only reduced us to a pathetic waste of what we once were. i.e. Rudeness, hatred, self-centered attitudes tend to rule in everyday life now. It can be viewed walking down the street, driving on the highway and traversing a slope.

I, for one, could frankly care less to have any more of the "in your face" attitude punks placed in my way. Most are beknighted, extremely ignorant, self-serving and lack a good sense of respect for others. And yes, advertising can have plenty to do with reinforce these behaviors. Remember, we're humans, in a way we all learn by monkey see, monkey do. If more and more advertising for our sport supports bad attitudes while displaying the presumtion that it's socially acceptable, then more and more people will believe it's okay.

Okay, I relinquish control of the soap box now.

"Ya just cain't git thar frum here!"
post #37 of 56

Way to go. What's wrong with art? Better be careful about pissing off Catholics though. It's that whole guilt thing they're so good at.

Alright, it's not fair to bring up religion and we certainly don't want to do it here. Our religion is the white stuff mixed in with some off beat stuff. If someone here is angry, I'll remove the reference...
post #38 of 56
yeah, ask the British.
post #39 of 56
gonzostrike... ok.

Db, maybe he works for both. Salomon used to be referred to as the Evil Empire awhile back. They are huge and own a lot of other companies too, just like Rossi.

I'm not for the in-your-face stuff either, but I really don't pay much attention to it. A lot of people in a lot of walks of life think in-your-face-aggressiveness is the same thing as being assertive.

Unfortunately this attitude is rewarded for all to see,(with positive AND negative attention) so it grows. For my part I choose not to laud them with more attention by kicking and screaming. I do my part in not rewarding the behavior. What I do is try to catch people 'being good' and reward that instead. People are pretty much like any other research animal, they will stop pressing the bar if they don't get the treat.

I don't harbor any hope that this will catch on in any big way, but it does improve the world in my immediate surroundings. Most people have no patience and have been modeled the "MAKE OTHER PEOPLE SUCCUMB TO YOUR WILL" style of behavior modification/communication.

It's too bad 97% of the population spends all their time trying to fix everyone else's problems instead of their own. With that as a model for world improvement we are all DOOMED.

"Nobody seems to know what my crimes are. The Charges are vague but... I am actually on trial for Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll... This is a Political Trial, and I am nothing if not a politician. I understand vengence."

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Roto (edited August 31, 2001).]</FONT>
post #40 of 56
The young are so awful, I can't stand them with their rap music and backwards baseball caps.
Art should be aesthetically pleasing, politically worthless, and above all seek to offend no one.
I'm so scared that our culture is declining.
It all sounds familiar, and it's been going on for literally thousands of years.
post #41 of 56
>>It all sounds familiar, and it's been going on for literally thousands of years.<<

I remember finding out the whole hippie thing had already happened before... after hearing all their hype about how new and revolutionary the ideas were I suddenly saw the whole thing for what it really was.

Scoff Scoff
post #42 of 56
Thread Starter 

You hit my point exactly. I do not intend to reward bad behavior by supporting it with my dollars. Something like four of our last eight or ten purchases have been Rossignol. That's the message.

I recently made the same point on the local level. I looked at a Toyota Tundra..... $30K+........... came home and saw the dealer ad on TV that was pushing cars on kids. The hype was something like.......


That shameless approach cost them a sale. They will have to push ten of those puppies to make up for the $ lost on the sale of a Tundra.

I ain't out to change the world.... but, I reserve the right to arrange my own furniture and ...... I always let them know why they lost the sale.
post #43 of 56
Thread Starter 

When the ad copy says it's ok to be rude, kids will be rude especially when it's supported in every fashion of media.

The world is saying to them in song and print that this is acceptable.

Assign blame? Sure, why not! As a card carrying sociologist........ I reserve the right to "make statements about the obvious, supported and quantified by methods that are obscure".

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, is a spectrograph needed to quantify the damned thing as a duck?

When this rude stuff infringes on my life on the slopes (I KNOW all boarders are not like that) or in the rate of intrest that I pay on my credit cards or mortgage rate. In case it hasn't hit home, the default rate on loans has skyrocketed......... reflected in higher rates........ SOMEONE is paying down that debt. Thirty years ago credit was established gradually. I hope you Euros are watching our trends......... then running the other way.
post #44 of 56
Do you carry those naked-lady poker cards or what?

Historically, sociologists have got to be the most off-the-mark experts out of all experts. If there is a field more based on opinion than sociology I have yet to hear about it.

History is hard to know, because of all the hired bulls**t, but even without being sure of "history" it seems entirely reasonable to think that every now and then the energy of a whole generation comes to a head in a long fine flash, for reasons that nobody really understands at the time --- and which never explain, in retrospect, what actually happened." - HST '71<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Roto (edited September 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #45 of 56
Yuki, I don't know what brand of truck you ended up buying, but I can assure you that somewhere there is an ad by that company that will offend you just as much or more as the Tundra ad. You just haven't seen it yet.
I'm all for voting with your pocketbook, but I'm afraid you chose the devil that you didn't see over the devil that you did.
post #46 of 56
I don't know if everyone here is really getting the general idea or if it's just turning into a battle.

What I feel Yuki is saying is that if you don't make some kind of a stand, be it to try and change the world or just for your own personal satisfaction, Nothing will ever be done or you personally might always regret your lack of action.

It's not something that has gone on for thousands of years either. Only in the last 50 has "mass media" been able to target groups so exclusively. It's only been for the last 100 that children have started to recieve more than 50% of their social learning from other sources besides their parents and the people physically closest to them.

It's not a question of whether mass media (adverts in conventional commercial form and TV/Movies) contributes to a declining set of morals, attitudes and respect. The prognosis is already in on that. Where the second opinions are needed at is the treatment options.

It seems to be particulary targeted to a younger population too. This being most likely due to the psychology of sales, i.e. they're easier to sway and ultimatly many have a unique way of getting mommy and daddy to spend bhux. I'm not busting on youth (damn, I wish I were 20 again. I could date 20 year olds and not feel like a molester!!). youth is beautiful and time should be take during those years to live and have a love of life. To experience the diversity of the world and find a place in it. However I do realize, now that I'm 15 years further, just how naive and easily influenced we all really were at that age.

Not to soap box more than necessary but look at some current "harmless" adverts shown nationally on TV. I know it was mentioned that all probably do it, but there are some that are just more "in your face" than others. They're just fun, youth targeted adverts on face value and maybe the advert agency didn't even intend on a "deep" message but look at what is reflected on the "deeper" level. (I know, I know, a bunch a psycho babble.)

One of these that comes to mind is the AppleJacks "We eat what we like" commercials. Usually always bustin' on dads. Making him out to be stupid and clueless and someone that should just shut up and leave the kids alone because after all, he doesn't have control and the kids are going to "do what they like".

Others include a stupid hand soap commercial that shows kids (however stupidly innocent) deliberatly lying to their mom and the commercial shows them laughing and making a joke out of it.

Another along those same lines was recently changed due to public opinion. It was an ISP (aol, att, ??? I dunno) advertising online phone calls, some teenage girl was talking to her friend over it and laughing about just being grounded from using the phone. The mom hears her, looks in and (in the original) was supposidly too stupid to catch her daughters scam of not using the phone, but rather the internet, to make a call. The mom (in the original) just looks at her strangely and walks out. The daughter and friend then continue to laugh at moms folly. This one, due to a flood of calls from irate moms, was actually taken off the air for awhile and changed to where mom ends up figuring it out in the end and grounds her from the internet too.

(I know, I'm way too bored!! I NEED TO SKI!!)

ANYway, I for one think that complaining to the advertiser and/or not supporting their product/show/movie is a great way to send a message even if it is only a personal one.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ski2xs (edited September 01, 2001).]</FONT><FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ski2xs (edited September 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #47 of 56
Where the second opinions are needed at is the treatment options
Countries like Iran seem to have a handle on this sort of thing. <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by milesb (edited September 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #48 of 56
DB, I do agree, you can't blame it on the youth or any other singular group. After all, who is supposed to be providing a good example and guidance anyway?

Miles, you need to check out what's going on in Iran. Americanization is hittin' hard. Particularly the youth. Maybe, the Taliban has a bit more control but this is something that's happening widespread.

There's no excuse for lack of morals, having a bad attitude or a lack of respect for others. I don't care what the reason, be it advertising, bad parenting, or a bad hair day. I guess one of the treatment options is outright intolerance to it the instance that it happens. I think tix should able to be stripped for sour attitudes and lack of respect. A little extreme, I know, and trust me, I'm glad that I have opponents on my thoughts in order to keep me grounded too.
post #49 of 56
Thread Starter 
Roto: Read that quote on methods again... that one was a tongue in cheek quote from the last Secy. of Education (good ol what's-his-name).

DB: The high default rate on credit cards has led to very high rates of interest. There is a major push here in the US to get a Master Card/Visa into the pocket of every college kid. Many of those kids use one card to pay off another...... and are in major debt. When these kids (and others) walk away from the debt the rest of us end up absorbing that debt in rates and charges.

Milesb: This was a local dealer ad on the cable network..... and I don't think it had anything to do with Toyota. My "strategy" as such is to just move on. When Saab screwed me on our last car (after 4 Saabs and 10 years of brand loyalty), I went to a Volvo (XC AWD). My next car will probably be something else since Ford/Volvo has been shaky on many of the problems that the XC has had.

One option that I have been examining is to not buy anything new..... buy and restore "classics" as daily drivers. My next ski wheels may end up being a LWB Rover from the 60's.
post #50 of 56
Yuki, the reference still goes over my head, but thx for pointing it out.
post #51 of 56

Now you're talkin'!!! I gave up on new cars years ago. Have a perfect 944 now that I only have a total of $6500 into. I've driven in 50k and I can still sell it for $5500. I just got tired of driving a car off the lot and losing thousands instantly!


TOTALLY agree!

Oh, a neat, pithy statement I heard the other day. "When the Hummer gets stuck, they call in the Rover!"
post #52 of 56
What has been going on for thousands of years is this kneejerk bullshit of blaming the young for some insidious effect on society. You can find ancient Egyptian writing on the very subject.
post #53 of 56
Some ads like to appeal to the worst of all stereotypes. Just saw the one for the Ford F Series super Duty.

it starts by asking if you've seen the film "You've Got Mail", about this guy and girl who fall in love over the internet.
Then they show this grungy looking macho man, and they say "This guy didn't"!

*********************************************I hope you never fear those mountains in the
Never settle for the path of least resistance..............
I hope you Dance
post #54 of 56
I can think of much worse stereotypes.
post #55 of 56
Marketing/advertising was my major in college. I worked on some ad campaigns and believe me they usually know their target market pretty well. What makes them tick and what makes them buy.
Generally, if you don't like an ad it wasn't aimed at you.
post #56 of 56
The madison ave types are not chimps. They nail the common denominator on each of their tiered demographics, but what their approach says about us is terrifying! That LCD is getting lower.
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