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An all mountain ski that has edge hold?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hi- I am a female, I guess a good skier, currently skiing on a Volkl Race Tiger SL(a couple of years old) as an only ski and love them as a "All Mountain Ski" here in the East- I ski Jay Peak in Northern VTwhich can have its share of ice but also powder. Looking for some ideas for a second ski that would be more "forgiving" in the Bumps but also less work on those powder days. Love Volkl and due to my local dealer being primarily a Volkl and Dynastar dealer- would love reccomendations in those two ski lines. I love the "hold" of a race ski and have skied on the recreation but race ski version of skis for a number of years. I have found when I have demo-ed "All Mountain Skis"- they often feel too "soft" but am looking for a ski to have more fun on those Powder or Bump days in the east. I find MY SL Race Tigers are a little too stiff in the shovel and if I hit a mogul head on, I find myself without skis!! Typically prefer SL vs heavy GS ski Any feedback/suggestions welcome!
post #2 of 29
If you like Volkl's the AC40 is the best All mountain (mainly powder and crud) ski in my opinion. It's a Wasatch favorite. I spend as little time on groomers and bumps as possible. I'm not sure there is truly a great bump and powder ski. 46"s of fresh at powder mountain in the last 7 days my legs are shot!!!
post #3 of 29
I agree with POWMOW, the AC40 is a great ski. The AC30 wouldn't be a bad choice either if you want to dial the width back a touch.

What are your stats and how long a ski do you typically ride?

How's your boot fit situation? You skiing with proper fit and fore-aft balance?
post #4 of 29
AC3/4-30/40 are good skis, esp the AC3/30 in the East, but I find my AC3 stiffer than my Racetiger SL's. Infact, my SL's are the softest I have, I dont know how you find them stiff. Racestock/WC or rec version?
post #5 of 29
The AC30 would be better than the 40 in VT. If you dealer has Volkl and Dynastar, rent some AC30 and Dynastar 8k's and see what you like best.
post #6 of 29
I have basically done the same thing you are thinking of only in reverse. Bought the AC 4 last year 06 model and absolutely love it and picked up Head wc sl skis this year for the hard pack. This has been a good combo for me, The few hard pack days we have had the sl skis were great but I have mostly been on the AC 4's because of the great conditions Vermont is getting this year.
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hi-

I am about 5'7; 130lbs and right now the Race Tigers I am on are 165(?)cm. The skis are in the locker at the mtn but I think that is the length. My former Volkl P50 SL were 163cm.

Jan
post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hi-

I find them (Race Tiger SL) stiff only if I should hit a mogul face on at the tip and then I find that I am with out a ski or two! As a result, I find myself really being careful of the line I might pick if I am in a thick mogul field. Wondering if there might be a better second ski if I know I am headed for the woods or will be skiing bumps for the day. I am not 100% sure but I think the DIN of my biundings is set around 6.5- a place I got to after many pre-releases. In general, my current binding setting is working pretty well for me- with the exception of wondering why I am walking out of my ski in a mogul field.

Jan
post #9 of 29
Stockli have great ice grip, the Spirit series had a nice feel in powder and SL character to it. If you still have to have that SL and race/performance the SC is a real good ski and they like most Stockli, can be "skied short".

Startin' Gate over by Stratton used to have demos.
post #10 of 29
We could have 15 people post 15 different awesome choice, none would be wrong (or correct). There are some great "race stock" recreational skis out there, all with different "flavor" demo some.
post #11 of 29
Take it from another woman!
If you're looking for something slightly more of an all mountain ski than the race tiger, then The Nordica Olympia Fire fox is the ski for you!!!
If you're looking for something more of a midfat range, then I'd go for the Blizzard Titan Eos, or the Volkl Aura.

I have reviewed the Firefox and the Blizzard Eos, and think you may want to demo both if you can.
The Aura is a bit wider and doesn't fit the description of what you're asking for, but according to the reviews, it will not disappoint you either.

The Firefox, as noted in my review,
found me making dive bomber noises as I made my way down the slopes.
:

The Eos made(review here)
me a happy girl when the powder hit us at Stowe, and when I want to make my way through the bumps.

:
post #12 of 29
Has anyone in the New england area skied Mad River Glen? Looks like a challangeing experiance! I saw that jmonette was from around the area,as well a few others. Sorry if I posted in the wrong thread.
post #13 of 29
I hope I can help you here I have last years Racetiger sl's (165cm)and a pair of Allstar's (168cm)so I do like Volkl 's The Nordica firefox is a very good recomendation .I just demoed the Dynastar Mytic Rider 122-88-110 in a 172cm and was very impressed I also tried the Volkl AC40 same day and I would say I did like the Dynastar better not that the Volkl was bad. This was at Alta on a very hardpack day just like the east(I ski at Hunter)the shop guys at Alta and Snowbird love this ski for all mountain ,demo it if you can (165cm) or look at the womens version which is the Exclusive Legend powder 121-85-104 and comes in a 158cm since I have not skied it I would ask your dealer
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by powderkid View Post
I just demoed the Dynastar Mytic Rider 122-88-110 in a 172cm and was very impressed I also tried the Volkl AC40 same day and I would say I did like the Dynastar better not that the Volkl was bad.
I was at Whistler 2 weeks ago with a colleague that rented AC40's, and since we have the same boot sole length we got to swap off with my Dynastar 8800's (last year's Mythic Rider).

As always, you have to be the judge, but my colleague was mightily impressed at the "life" in the 8.8k - "wow, what fun". My opinion of the AC40 was that it was very nice and smooth, but I really missed the snap of the 8.8k's. At the end of the day I asked if he wanted to trade again, and he said "no, I'm tired and the Dynastars are too aggressive". Well said as far as I'm concerned.

Try everything you can and decide what YOU like.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post
Try everything you can and decide what YOU like.
Best piece of advice so far.
Invest in good boots first then take a demo list to your mountain. Buy the ski that does this to you. >>>
post #16 of 29
I ski east coast and last bought the AC3, i would agree with above the 3 over the 4 for east coast. Great ski but has one major downfall it is very heavy more than just a little heavy tyake that into consideration, i,m 150 and in my own opinion for myself i find the ski to heavy. Edge grip is superb.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1201 View Post
I ski east coast and last bought the AC3, i would agree with above the 3 over the 4 for east coast. Great ski but has one major downfall it is very heavy more than just a little heavy tyake that into consideration, i,m 150 and in my own opinion for myself i find the ski to heavy. Edge grip is superb.
Not as heavy as the 4. And if she is skiing on the Racetigers, rec or racestock/WC, they should be just as heavy. No difference to me, I have both.
post #18 of 29
Since you mentioned Dynastar, consider the Legend 8000. Not the best on ice, but rated as good for crud/powder and also bumps. As was said - demo!
post #19 of 29
You may want to go another direction. Since you say a second pair for more fun in bumps and powder and we are talking east coast powder so it is different. I have for years had a pair of mogul skis just for this exact purpose but you usually sacrifice that ice edge grip. Ive been using a pair of kastles for this for a long time but mogul skis loose there spring fast so ive been wanting the volkl rebellion for a while now. With snow falling like it is here i i got the itch again the rebellions are a bit pricey so just ordered a pair of head supermoguls, they came to the door today but i wasnt home. Now i have to go to fed ex to get em, i hate fed ex. Just a thought.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by powmow View Post
If you like Volkl's the AC40 is the best All mountain (mainly powder and crud) ski in my opinion. It's a Wasatch favorite. I spend as little time on groomers and bumps as possible. I'm not sure there is truly a great bump and powder ski. 46"s of fresh at powder mountain in the last 7 days my legs are shot!!!
your legs are shot because your working to hard on ski to skinnier. noone who actually lives here use this ski on powder days, maybe on hardpack days but not on powder days.

BTW I may have just totally offended you but I am going to pow next monday, if you want to prove me wrong, and guide me around in the process beer/dinner will be on me.

but for the original poster Ac40 is good choice and other skis you should consider are....


169cm K2 Pe or missdemeor
152cm Atomic Metron B5 if they still make it
post #21 of 29
If you are looking for an AM ski that has the grip and stability of a race ski.....that is doable. (or close enough anyway) The problem is that the characteristics of such a ski will make make it less than ideal for what you really want it for which is powdah and bumps. When you start to collect ski models, you need to understand that different types of terrain and conditions call for different ski characteristics. It is all about the tradeoffs and what your goals are.

Hard snow, edge grip, stability etc. generally call for stiffer skis in torsion
and in beam flex. More shape is often very useful in an eastie ski and a fairly narrow waist is fun. (you already have this type of ski)

Bumps generally call for somewhat softer torsion and beam flex since grip is less critical than forgiveness. Shape is usually not your friend in bumps since you can't really carve in the bumps (at least not for long) Some additional width is not a terribly bad thing but as the ski gets wider, at some point it will feel more cumbersome.

Naturally, powder calls for wider yet but at some point, you will lose some manuverability over the ski that you felt was best in bumps.

Of course you have to choose the compromises that make sense to you, but it seems to me that the first notion to dump is that AM skis are "too soft" They are that way for a very good reason. If they were not softer than your race skis, they would not do their job as AM skis all that well.

SJ
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
If you are looking for an AM ski that has the grip and stability of a race ski.....that is doable. (or close enough anyway) The problem is that the characteristics of such a ski will make make it less than ideal for what you really want it for which is powdah and bumps. When you start to collect ski models, you need to understand that different types of terrain and conditions call for different ski characteristics. It is all about the tradeoffs and what your goals are.

Hard snow, edge grip, stability etc. generally call for stiffer skis in torsion
and in beam flex. More shape is often very useful in an eastie ski and a fairly narrow waist is fun. (you already have this type of ski)

Bumps generally call for somewhat softer torsion and beam flex since grip is less critical than forgiveness. Shape is usually not your friend in bumps since you can't really carve in the bumps (at least not for long) Some additional width is not a terribly bad thing but as the ski gets wider, at some point it will feel more cumbersome.

Naturally, powder calls for wider yet but at some point, you will lose some manuverability over the ski that you felt was best in bumps.

Of course you have to choose the compromises that make sense to you, but it seems to me that the first notion to dump is that AM skis are "too soft" They are that way for a very good reason. If they were not softer than your race skis, they would not do their job as AM skis all that well.

SJ
What he said.......
post #23 of 29
I hate it when Sierra Jim shows me up. Always the right advice.
post #24 of 29
I'm really liking my Nordicas this year. The Dynastar Mythic Rider is the new and improved version of the 8800 which has been a pereinial favorite here in JH where conditions are variable. Also the Volkl AC4 is hot. I am on the Nordica Jet Fuel and love it. It is very aggressive and grips on the hard pack. It is a bit stiff in the bumps, but managable. The Afterburner is the same ski without 2 sheets of metal. I've been asking around and the women seem to like the Nordica Olympic ? (hotrod series) and the Dynastar Exclusive Legend. Good Luck and have fun demoing
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
We could have 15 people post 15 different awesome choice, none would be wrong (or correct). There are some great "race stock" recreational skis out there, all with different "flavor" demo some.
What philpug has said is true. Now I would say this.....

I skied on Fischers for many many years. I was loyal to Fischers. I bought a pair of RC4's that were a great GS ski. Stable at speed and yes, they were fast!! Loved them. Soon figured out they were to stiff for the type of skiing I enjoy...all-mountain. I then went shopping for an all-mountain ski. It was a pleasure because I began to think outside of the box (outside of Fischer's). I bought the Elan Magfire 10 and I cannot tell you the fun I have experienced on these skis. They do everything!! And yes, they are stable at speed. Bumps...one right after another. Just an all around do everything fun fun fun ski.

Now, will my next pair of ski's be Elan's?? Maybe. Maybe not. There obviously is a lot of choice out there.

So my advice to the original poster is to look outside of the Voeckl's and you just might find what you are looking for....and then some.
I did when I went from Fischer's to Elan's.

Good Luck in your search and happy trails.
post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your thoughts and, yes, point well taken about the trade offs and what I want. I guess due to seldom having that all only powder vs bumps, vs hard pack built into a given day, the versatility is probably the issue. In general, I LOVE the Race Tiger and feel it takes me though all of the above with thought and planning in some situations. The part I am struggling with is those times when what looks like a soft "bump" of snow turns out to have a solid core and I happen to hit front on- I am suddenly with out skis in a way that I have never had happen with other race oriented skis I have skied as "all mountain". Certainly does not happen all the time as I do know I approach anything that is not groomed (which can happen a lot at Jay - even on "groomed" trails!) paying attention to what is under foot.. May sound like a lot of work to some but it is what I am used to and because I like the edge hold when I want it- that is a trade off I am very conscious of. My daughter who uses the Race Tiger SL but the stiffer WC - "Race Stock" ski in her work as a Coach has the AC 40 for when she wants to head into the woods or when the day is generally a powder day, even on the trainlng hill and does like them. I was able to try the Dynastar Ledgend that someone mentioned and that actually was a lot of fun in the woods and seemd ok on firm, non boiler plate hard pack. The person I buy my equipment from is a small dealer and while he has a pair of demos of the AC 4 and maybe the 3, I am not sure, they are really long.

Does anyone have any experience with the AC4 vs what ever the Tiger Shark is suppose to be like? That is a ski that my shop does not even have due to his concern that the "power switch" is new and concerns about what happens if it breaks- again a small dealer so he needs to pick and chose what he has in his store. Anyone with any thoughts?
post #27 of 29

Tigershark

I held off on jumping into your thread until you finally mentioned the Tigersharks. I have the 10' w/ switch and just did a week on them on eastern hardpack/ice, some slush, and finally one day of some loose/soft snow.

I'm male 5'9" 168# expert former racer and was on the 168s. These skis totally rocked on hardpack...the grip is incredible, they like to run but I found short, quick turns no prob too...they are not dialed into long GS turns even though they like to go there.

I did find them a bit squirrelly in looser snow, although I only skied them that day with the switch on b/c it's not like there was any serious powder. On hardpack I much preferred them w/ switch on, and the power, stability and edge hold were all much stronger in "on". But a lighter touch, more finesse skier might well prefer "off". I just found that in "on" mode, they could handle speed and power and also were not at all difficult to initiate when skiing slowly/leisurely (e.g., following my 5 year old down green runs). They were just remarkably easy to ski in "on" while also really shining when put to work at high-ish speed carving....and with all sorts of turn shapes.

I didn't get into any serious bumps with them 'cause there weren't any around, just some small late day wet snow bumps that one day after a 9" snowfall. I can tell that soft edge drifting in bumps will be no problem -- they're not hooky -- but it's not what they make you want to do on them and they are pretty stiff, and so I doubt I will love them in serious bumps in "on", but switching to "off" may be just the trick. Hope so! They have a lot of shape, though, so not likely to truly shine in bumps.

I have not skied the AC3/30 or 4/40, so can't compare. But I suspect the 40 would do quite a bit better in soft snow than the TS -- again, the TS has a lot of shape and even a few inches of loose wet snow took them a bit out of their game. But on hardpack, just awesome, and a perfect groomer eastern ski for a person who loves race skis but doesn't want to be too locked in to either SL or GS turn shapes.

So net-net, I bet you'd love the TS for the bread and butter hard snow skiing at Jay to replace your SL racetigers, but they probably aren't the right 2nd ski to use instead of the racetigers for soft snow days and in bumps, trees etc.
post #28 of 29
I skied Volants for a long time, now I just bought some Dynastars from Coup, and can not wait to try them out!
post #29 of 29
To throw a bit more kerosene onto the fire . . .

I'm a northern Vermont skier, mostly Smugglers' Notch but including Jay and others. I have the 07/08 Head iM 78 Monsters, which I originally wanted for unpacked snow conditions. As it turns out, the first day I skied them the snow was, shall we say, "eastern firm". To my delight, they performed very well, especially considering their width under foot. The next day was new, both tracked and untracked, eastern "powder", and again, they performed very well. If I had to have only one pair of skis, the iM78 would be it. Of course, it's ewll know than I NEVER have only one pair of skis. I'm just saying, if . . .

Gonna send you a PM, jhmonette regarding your possible connection to others in that neck of the woods with the same last name.
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