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More Questions Concerning Fluoro Waxes

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
My X-Mas loot this year included some Fluoro waxes that I've never dealt with before.

First, a jar of Swix Cera F 100% fluoro powder (which I've already received answers for . . . THANKS ALPINORD! I checked out your site and also read some good info on Tognar's site).

Second, I got a block of High Fluoro Swix HF8.

I've been reading up on applications, and it seems like HF waxes are only suited for high humidity snow. I ski Summit County, where the snow is typically dry (hard to make a snowball). Will the HF actually slow down my skiing as compared to my regular CH waxes?

May I (gasp!) mix the HF with the CH to make my own "low fluoro" wax?

On that vein; Why the compulsion to keep Hydrocarbon wax tools segregated from Fluoro wax tools???

Well, thanks for all your help!
Abq.Dan
post #2 of 8
Humidity is everything. If the stars are out at night the fluoro will suck. Yes, I think it can even slow you down.

on wet snow on a sunny low hum day fluoros are good, but not miraculous

on foggy cold days fluors can be surprisingly good

Mix away. Swix lf 10 can just fly in mixed rain and snow.

I mostly just use them on xc skating skis. Do you race?
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply. I'm just beginning to get into racing, after spending 20+ seasons "free skiing" (I just can't keep up with those 16 yr. olds now - no going off 60 footers switch for me, thank you very much ).

What should I do to go FAST on Colorado snow?

My typical routine is to (1) scrub my base with a heavy brass brush, (2) apply (iron drip) a cleaning coat with cheap HydroCarbon wax (usually a warmer/pink wax), (3) apply ("crayon" rub) one or two coats of Hydro wax (Swix CH 7 or 8), fully cooling each time, (4) scrub with a fine brass brush, (5) rub down with a fine nylon brush, (6) ski, ski, ski. I'll do more or less, depending on how much time I have, how much beer I have, how the conditions are, etc...

I will usually be racing in the mornings, when the snow is cold (air temp = 10-20 F). Typically, the stars have been out and the humidity is in the 20-30% range.

Should I just be sticking with HydroCarbon wax under these conditions? Should I mix in just a wee bit of HF - increasing the percentage as conditions get more moist, like by March?

Also, once a brush hits Fluoro - even LF - is it "ruined" for purely Hydro applications? I'll have dedicated tools for the 100% powder.

Thanks again!
post #4 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbuquerqueDan View Post
, (2) apply (iron drip) a cleaning coat with cheap HydroCarbon wax (usually a warmer/pink wax), (3) apply ("crayon" rub) one or two coats of Hydro wax (Swix CH 7 or 8), fully cooling each time, (!

I used to race in Colorado and found in the AM you have to wax for last night's conditions. Hard, cold weather wax.

Don't clean with a warm weather wax if it is going to be cold. Wipe the bottoms with scotchbright and warm scrape with ch4 or ch6. You want the "wax history" of the ski to be nothing but hard waxes.

When warm, humid weather does come, the fluoros will pay off. The first time I saw cera-f in action was when a friend anihilated the field in the Frisco gold rush during a wet snowfall.

I doubt a little cera will contaminate a brush too bad. Warm soft wax might be bad for contaminating cold weather waxes.
post #5 of 8

Fluorocarbons...

...are largely a waste in Colorado, most of the time. In addition, as mentioned, when it's extremely cold/dry, fluoros will stick like glue. Especially right now. Everybody I know is using straight Toko blue, or maybe even green. When I use fluoro, it's all LF...HF is a waste of time and money. I do use Toko Helix Warm when it even looks like fluoro is called for...this stuff has a pretty wide temperature range. For SL and most GS...who cares? Edges and some wax are far more important than fluoros. I start getting serious about "fluoro or not" for speed events. My coach and teammate, Broc Thompson, is the #1 man in Rocky Mountain Masters, and is also the local Toko rep. Know what he and I use, most of the time? The Toko graphite/moly shop wax, which you can buy for about $8 for a kilo. Most training days, I just slop on some graphite/moly or maybe red or red/blue, let cool, scrape, rotobrush with a soft nylon brush...good to go, now it's up to the pilot...
post #6 of 8
A few years back some of the western race guys were pushing a powder that was like the chemical opposite of fluro for cold and dry conditions.

Can't remember the name because we never see those conditions so it was academic.

I do remember looking at the price and it was wicked expensive.
post #7 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
I do remember looking at the price and it was wicked expensive.
This Cera F I got runs in at about $130 for a little jar! : My brother got it on a deal up in Utah (he works at REI in SLC and I think he gets it Pro- or Race-form).

I hope that it doesn't just sit on my shelf and collect dust because of the dry, fluffy, light-as-air snow we're getting here . . . . Almost makes a skiier wish his mountain were getting rained on. NOT!
post #8 of 8
(Rocky Flats Lounge.....I'll bet they serve some stuff more 'radiant' than Cera F. Live up Coal Creek?...formerly Rollinsville, Ned & Boulder, here....)

Regarding mixing HF to make fluoro, seems like it's not your best economic option, AFAIK. If I remember correctly, the levels of LF & HF vary by manufacturer and may be around 5 to 8% for LF (I could be way off here) & twice that for HF. So to make LF from HF, you'd need approximately equal part HC to mix with HF to get LF. It's probably cheaper to buy LF (depending on potency) versus the mix, but if you have the stuff sitting around......what the hey, give it a try, especially next warm spell or springtime???? :

LF (P2 & Univ LF, anyway) runs very well down here (cold/dry and definitely moist), in the Sierras & PNW....and won the men's DH at Lake Louise, FWLIW.
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