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After watching Bode.........

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/...um=0&adjust=-1


After watching the SportSkool Session, on Needles @ Killington. Good pitch w/ fast crumbly/ice surface. Skiing at relaxed pace.

All thoughts welcome.
post #2 of 15
Thread Starter 
post #3 of 15
Looks like you've got alot of weight on the inside ski. Look at the distance between the inside boot and the outside knee in your pics and then compare to this shot.



That's a good example of the CM being well to the inside of the inside ski rather than being above it and supported by it.
post #4 of 15
Here are a few slightly better examples of what Max is talking about (on SL skis):




Here is a fuzzy one on 186 Nordica GS skis:


I know you're pretty good at sorting this stuff out for yourself, so just let me know if you have any questions about any of those shots (stills really don't tell a great story about the turn that was being made IMO).

Later

Greg
post #5 of 15
I think Max is on to it.

post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
I think Max is on to it.



Very much agreed............ my wife has been telling me that my inside leg has been doing "too much" as of late & that I just need to ski.
I suspect this is from being instructed in forcing a 'strong inside' & letting the inside leg hook up too early & pulling me into really wide stance.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
this is how wife has been redirecting me

http://www.skiersedge.com/images/masterskerry.jpg
post #8 of 15
Sounds like me. IMHO straighten your upper body, chase your ski tips with your head,hands and hips. Oh and your wife is right just ski.
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Looks like you've got alot of weight on the inside ski. Look at the distance between the inside boot and the outside knee in your pics and then compare to this shot.



That's a good example of the CM being well to the inside of the inside ski rather than being above it and supported by it.
Only because the inside boot is far away from outside knee does not mean that there is too much weight on the inside ski. We are close to beeing dragged into a stance width discussion but I must point out that compared to all other photos put up here for display iriponsnow has a much wider stance which is not automatically a bad thing. Depends on intent. Here:
http://ski.topeverything.com/default...nt&ID=37433745

BTW, those photos of iriponsnow looks pritty much like very nice GS chops! Great photos as well if I may say and that might be one reason technique is highest priority, its looking cool on camera .
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
I think Max is on to it.

Imagine a pressure gauge attached to each foot registering the lbs/sq.in. in pic 1 and pic 2 above. Note the imbalance in pressure. Now imagine a "extension/compression limb travel available" gauge for each leg. Irip is relaxed, but has nearly zero compression available in the uphill ski and nearly zero extension available in the downhill ski. "Maxed-out", but comfortably cruising...no room for an unseen ripple in the snow to be absorbed on the inside of the turn except by the torso mass...

My guess is if you took Irip's photo 1 second earlier, you'd see a completely different pressure differential inside/outside that would look similar to pic 2.

Also...Irip's butt mass (that's a technical term ya know) is getting fairly far inside and potentially behind the uphill ski's pressure point...come up too quick on the uphill ski and it's a trip to the backseat...

Your wife is probably correct...(aren't they always?)...

Nice pics....

P.S. - Irip...some skis are coming to test soon ...keep your email ears open !!!
post #11 of 15
I think it would "look better" if your skis were a little closer together for that angle, or if you were inclined a lot more for that width of skis.
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
Imagine a pressure gauge attached to each foot registering the lbs/sq.in. in pic 1 and pic 2 above. Note the imbalance in pressure. Now imagine a "extension/compression limb travel available" gauge for each leg. Irip is relaxed, but has nearly zero compression available in the uphill ski and nearly zero extension available in the downhill ski. "Maxed-out", but comfortably cruising...no room for an unseen ripple in the snow to be absorbed on the inside of the turn except by the torso mass...
You are perfectly right that if our limbs are maxed out eather way we are out of limb travel but at some point if we ski to the max we are pushed into that kind of situation. Check this guy out:
http://ski.topeverything.com/default...nt&ID=ED+B7A84

And compare it hete:
http://www.ridgeview-acres.com/ski2.jpg

Thats the difference between freeskiing and WC racing track skiing. You need to be pritty maxed out most the time. Since we do not know the speed Irip is carrying, how steep the pitch is, how well tuned his skis are and how much centrifugal force in combination with gravity Irip is resisting we do not know the weight distribution between his skis and most importantly how he felt during his turn. He is also set up for the photo so all of this makes it hard to judge correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
My guess is if you took Irip's photo 1 second earlier, you'd see a completely different pressure differential inside/outside that would look similar to pic 2.
Yes, I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
Also...Irip's butt mass (that's a technical term ya know) is getting fairly far inside and potentially behind the uphill ski's pressure point...come up too quick on the uphill ski and it's a trip to the backseat...
If you stand on the floor bare foot and want to lower your CM while still maitaining perfect fore aft balance you flex at your ancle, knee and hip joints. If you want to reach down to the floor with your hands you even raise yourself to balance on the ball of your feet in order to tilt your legs forwards as the motion in your ancle stops. Or then if you want to keep your heels on the floor you simply compensate by overly leaning your upper boyd forwards. Now do the same with ski boots on or just try to perform the same trick without flexing your ancles. Yes, you can flex them a little bit if you want to imitate your ski boot flex but see how your butt moves backwards and your upper body folds forwards. This is what happens when you flex both legs out on the mountain while skiing. Your butt is pointing backwards and the only way to compensate is by folding your upper body forwards. The advice that you should keep your hips forwards is impossible during a deeply flexed transition and if you try to push your hips forwards that is offcourse possible but then you will no longer be in flexed position. Your legs will extend and your CoM will be raiced up. The trick here is to keep your weight on a leg that has the hip forwards, an extended leg that would be. Thats why we keep our weight on the outside ski during a turn. And how do we pull off a transition in flexed position you might ask? Good question but the answere is quite simple: you are unweighted and there is no or very little pressure on skis. Look at Myhrer in frame 4:
http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/20...2006-sl-1.html

If he had continued straight forwards across the slope in frame 4 do you think he would have stayed out of the back seat? NO! Still he is turning 60 times during 1 and a half minute without getting in the back seat. Actually he is getting in the back seat 60 times but he is still not in the back seat. Ok, that might be the wrong word, I should be using the definition sufficient fore aft balance because thats what it is. In frame 4 Myhrer is momentarily in the backseat but since he is unweighted it doesent hurt his skiing. On the contrary, it is allowing him to push his outside stance ski hip forwards. Pull back of the outside ski underneath to support the CoM and provide him with sufficient fore aft balance. It also goes to show how to flex and extend during a turn and why that inside leg must flex and why there cannot be any weight on that inside ski. Did you ever see a WC skiers skis catapult forwards from underneath him across the slope? Right, many times. And that is because the skier did not manage to keep weight off the skis when flexed. Or did not manage to turn the skis and extend that outside leg quick enough to be able to push that hip forwards. Pushing the hips forwards is really not a good advice without some proper explantaion of everything else involved. If we allways had our hips forwards we would ski totally erect without any inclination.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
In frame 4 Myhrer is momentarily in the backseat but since he is unweighted it doesent hurt his skiing. On the contrary, it is allowing him to push his outside stance ski hip forwards. Pull back of the outside ski underneath to support the CoM and provide him with sufficient fore aft balance.
Precisely...Nicely put tdk6.... Thanks! You're hired.
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Only because the inside boot is far away from outside knee does not mean that there is too much weight on the inside ski. We are close to beeing dragged into a stance width discussion but I must point out that compared to all other photos put up here for display iriponsnow has a much wider stance which is not automatically a bad thing. Depends on intent. Here:
http://ski.topeverything.com/default...nt&ID=37433745

BTW, those photos of iriponsnow looks pritty much like very nice GS chops! Great photos as well if I may say and that might be one reason technique is highest priority, its looking cool on camera .
The example picture you linked to is a good example of what I was saying...e.g. the CM is well inside of the inside ski (not the case with iriponsnow's pic).
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
The example picture you linked to is a good example of what I was saying...e.g. the CM is well inside of the inside ski (not the case with iriponsnow's pic).
Yepper.
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