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Analyze This. please? - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Thread Starter 

I think it is the dreaded "ABSTEM". It must be muscle memory from my deep dark past. I noticed it when I'm beginning my run and have been looking to see if it creeps in during my run. I have been playing around with HH's phantom turn and am not sure if it is an anomoly with my legs when I tip to my lte. It is definitely up top. I notice sometimes I do make a little abstem move in difficult terrain. I feel dirty!

post #32 of 46
the abstem goes away if you finish the turn with more emphasis on keeping the inside ski working through the edge release. The inside leg slows down (rotationally) a bit before the release. Creating the diverging tips and producing the "push to an edge" abstem.
post #33 of 46
Thread Starter 
That was a move I used years ago on straight skis. Finish the turn with a divergence then extend the COM through and down, the inside divergent ski would be on edge instantly. Always liked this move as it was a very fast way to get to the edge and at the time it was it taught as inside leg rotary motion and helped getting us more active with our inside ski. I think they used to use it to see how far we could extend off the new turning ski to. Liked it then but I suppose it is out of favor now.
I went to the boot fitter today and we decided to cut back to 3/8 inch lifts from the 1/2 inchers I had installed. It was nice being a little taller for a while but we decided before grinding the heal pocket to accomodate them it would be better to give a smaller wedge a try. They worked pretty good, not as good as the halfers but I think I can get used to these and I wont have to alter the boot. Benny also put in a ankle wedge to help with the pronation and this combination gave me the most comfort on the bad foot I have had to date. I think I will leave everything alone for awhile and let the Zipfits bed in good. At the end of the day they were feeling really good. If you have never had a pair of Zippies that worked your missing something. Incredible snug fit witout being uncomfortable and they seem to adapt the more you ski them.
Today I really worked on slowing things down and really concentrating on pausing on four edges right before the crossover. This really helped my turn shape and I was taking it into steeper stuff. It's a neat feeling as you kind of suspend yourself on that plane inspace and it kind of lets you look around and get yourself together, does that make sense? Anyway thats what I was feeling and it is good. Fairly low impact with the less intense edging. We skied FIS which is relitivly steep. windblown and right now set up rock hard. Worked great even on the ice slabs.

Thanks for everyones input. I have one more day on the hill then I think I'm going to do some snowshowing. Think Snow.

post #34 of 46
Glad you already know how to turn the inside leg. Although I think you are overdoing it if a divergence occurs. The idea is not to hang onto a lot of edge so much as to facilitate and create a smoother transition to the new set of edges. The key becomes the flattening of both skis as you continue to turn both legs (and the skis) across the hill. At flat the CoM should be perpendicular to the slope and already past vertical, so the rest of the transition should be almost automatic. At that point progressively creating edge as the CoM continues to move downhill gives you enough edge purchase to shape the turn through the first half and thereby eliminates the need for so much activity later in the turn. It feels a lot like a White Pass turn even though the outside ski is left on the snow. Pausing at flat is a lot of fun but remember that the CoM needs to continue towards the apex of the next turn.
The set up of your boots is very critical for this since we are spending so much time near flat. Keep us informed about how the ramp changes (lifting the heels) and the lateral adjustments (wedges) effect your ability to perform these movements.
post #35 of 46
Maybe I can add to what JASP is saying after watching the third video a few times.

Overall your stance is tall and your center of mass is flowing nicely with the turns. This is a big plus as center of mass flow is usually the problem with advanced skiers. Your primary means of edging is largely banking instead of angulating.

Here is what happens: You move early towards the new turn with the upper body by more or less falling face first into the new turn. At the start of this movement the outside ski is back due to the slope and rotation to create counter. As the falling movement starts to flatten the skis the old outside leg/new inside leg is blocking the way so you weight the leg and rotate that leg towards the new turn. This has to happen and the new inside ski diverges to accomplish this. The new outside ski is still trying to finish the turn as the old inside ski but must now turn quickly to catch up to the body and new inside ski. An abstem push off occurs to make that happen.

I think what JASP means by more inside foot work at the end of the turn is to take the old outside leg/ new inside leg with you towards the new turn instead of just falling in over the top of it. This does not mean shoving the old outside ski forward to create the new inside ski. What it means is keeping shin pressure on the tongue of the boots while moving the new inside hip towards the new turn by extending the knee. The idea here is to get the new inside ski to match tip to tip with the new outside ski at edge change. This movement also keeps the new outside ankle closed and transfers dominance to the new outside ski naturally.

With this movement pattern, you unblock your new inside half and allow it to move hip first into the new turn, your new inside hip is forward and you can now angulate naturally along with inclination to create edge.

This movement pattern is totally opposite of what you are currently doing so these changes will feel quite unnatural when you start. Keeping shin pressure (closed ankle) while opening the knee is not a movement pattern humans develop during the course of everyday living. That movement is difficult to put into your skiing. You may require the eye of a good pro to make the changes without a hitch.
post #36 of 46
Thread Starter 

I went through and reviewed my skiing in slow mo and I think I see exactly what you are saying. I do use and concentrate on inside leg pullback especially in the turn belly. It seems to really help with shape and grip but I lose focus into the turn completion and that is where i believe I am seeing my counter increase at the end of the turn that sets up the blocking motion at edge change. I guess to remove that counter at the end of the turn I can do two things, singularly or in combination, increase my angulation by more counter (less lean) or more inside ski flex to get the boots closer together. I am also seeing a rising motion at edge change that I think is wastful and could be damped down with more flex at release.
The boots are with the 3/8 lift are pretty good. I still think the 1/2" lift skied a little better and allowed me to skate and do foot to foot drills better but not sure if the overall balance is better. I'll stick with the 3/8 wedge and ski them in. I have to say the one thing I notice the most about the Agressor abducted boot is the lack of knee pain. I have suffered from knee ache for years, beginning to end of season. The thighs are a little achy but getting better. The edging is very good. When I first got on the boot I thought my skis were railed, it was the boot. The skis are running flat but when it's time to go on edge it goes there now.

On Friday I tried skiing with the posse I had been skiing with last year. They were going places I just shouldn't have been, steep, icy, rocky, deep blown snow so after a quick risk assessment I bailed and took it to the groomers. I know it was the right thing to do, I need to stay intact this year, live to fight another day and all that. This forum has been a great tool to keep me busy and I can't thank you guys enough for all the input, really terrific!

post #37 of 46
Good boots are a good thing. They probably made it so that upper body rotation was no longer an asset but a weak link. You probably replaced rotation with body inclination. Good boots still do not replace efficient movements.

There is nothing wrong with staying tall and there is a pitfall to what you are proposing. That pitfall is creating angles by rotating the hips in relation to the skis to allow you to shorten the legs. More angulation is produced but you have to have excessive tip lead to close the outside ankle. You create a position from which varying the edge angle is difficult and you become park and ride in the end of the turn. In essence you still don't move the inside half into the turn. Don't sabotage your early center of mass movements you have already created to get more edge and angulation.

Learn how to move the inside half into the turn from a tall position as I explained in the previous post. Flexion and extension to create angles will become natural and the tall position will modify all on its own. Flexion and extension become natural when you do not block your new inside half from moving into the new turn.
post #38 of 46
Uh, more edge is exactly the problem guys. After the apex you need to think about getting to the new set of edges. Which means getting off those edges to get to the new set of edges. Higher edge angles late in a turn just dump the hip and the CoM is further displaced towards the inside of the current turn. If a gate is wide enough to create a need for this great but for most rec skiers they stay there too long and they end up too far inside the turn at the cross over. Set yourself up for a more successful transition by reducing that edge angle as early as possible.
Steering the inside ski more will accomplish this more effectively because the skis cross beneath us. Which does several things but the two that concern this thread are;
1 Cross under without tossing the body downhill
2 A smoother more progressive transition because we are moving towards flat skis not adding more edge angle at the end of each turn
post #39 of 46
Thread Starter 
We are having a nice little dump going on here in Northern Vermont. Skied today and I did a little work playing around with decreasing my tip lead at the end of the turn, tipping my new inside ski earlier and more actively into the turn. I concentrated on feeling pressure on the front/side/top of my boot at crossover. The edge change was at the sametime maybe with a slight lead on the inside. SkiPro I am not trying to increase edge angle but to get my new inside ski out of the way earlier. I was decreasing the lead by more actively flexing and rotating my inside ski. Don't have any video but I think that opposing edge I was creating is gone. I skied some back glades today and was using a strong counter with reduced tip lead and got crossed up and dinged my ankle pretty good. No damage just some pain. I can ski OK for 2 to 3 runs then I get tired and sloopy and everything goes to hell, very frustrating. This used to be so easy! Need to back off to the groomers and be a tourist.

post #40 of 46
Good KLM,
From what I read in the last few posts it seemed otherwise. Especially the part about your two options. I'm a big fan of eliminating the edge set/ platform at the end of the turn because it is usually accompanied by the up move, or an up the hill rotory push off movement. Most people do this to create an unweighting of some sort to facilitate an easier release of the last turn. Finding another way to release the skis is the solution. Why not just release the ski by getting it flat to the snow?

Pulling back the inside leg is another thing we need to be careful with. Even the name suggests part of the body moving back instead of towards the new turn. If you externally rotate the inside femur and internally rotate the outside femur simultaneously the rest takes care of itself. Your inside half remains centered over the inside ski, the appropriate amount of tip lead is maintained, etc...

This may be out of place but if I can suggest something...
I would say the physical challenges you are going through offer enough opportunity to become frustrated, why make it worse by obsessing about technique. Go out and have fun and stop worrying so much about this stuff. When your body is fully recovered (pain subsides) it's going to allow you more technique and terrain options. God's speed with the recovery.
post #41 of 46
Quick thoughts:

Short radius turns look balanced athletinc and fun. Gold advice above.

On the longer radius...

Go Faster. You will get better angles. Even on a nice mild pitch like that, speed is often the key to "shapelier" turns. The physics will give your more grip and more confidence to really tip the skis.
Open Stance MORE. Too old school. Basketball between the knees.
Hands forward and shoulders square down the fall line.

Good drill I had a race coach show me recently. Poles in one hand. Turning Right - lean over and think about touching top of LEFT boot with LEFT hand. This gets your hip into the hill.

Another good drill on a mild open slope is get into a racers tuck. (Study yourself in the mirror at home so you do not look like a kook with poles sticking straight up.) Slowly increase speed but slow is fine to start. Carve turns with that open stance and REALLY think about weighting the downhill ski. This will open your stance AND give you a taste of the proper carve "sensation" the new gear is designed to make so easy.
post #42 of 46
Thread Starter 

Your right, need to chill a little here. I'm using it as a distraction because the skiing is just so good right now in the Northeast and I'm stuck on groomers. I need something to keep me occupied. My obsessive nature does spill out abit, just ask my wife!

Thanks for the input,

post #43 of 46
Karl; looking at the second video I see nice, smooth steering. Perhaps a bit of a pushoff in the transitions, as others have pointed out, but nothing to get too bent about.

I would suggest working on versatility in your steered turns. Get creative. Play around with different states of fore/aft, and lateral balance. Mix em up. Use different transitions,,, ILE's, OLR's, retractions, weighted releases, big pivots and none, quick edge change and big pause. All different turn shapes,,, some consistent, some not. Ski low,,, ski high. Forget about fitting into a perfect technical mold, of whoever's designation. Get good at getting funky, at doing many different things,,, and have fun doing it.

Then come back with some video showing us your new bag of tricks. 10 different turns, 10 different themes, with a shot list of what you're doing in each.
post #44 of 46
Did I hear a machine gun in the background on those clips?
post #45 of 46
Thread Starter 
post #46 of 46
Thread Starter 

2 Months from last MA

Well it's been almost two months since I last posted a MA. I've seen much improvement in my strength and have been skiing lots of woods and doing some hiking and snowshoeing. The ankle has good days and bad days but trending upwards. This video was shot at smuggs on Sunday 02/24/2008. We shot video because the east coast recieved a wallop of rain the week before and just about everything was closed excepting the groomers. We took a couple of runs in the woods but my ankle did not fair well and began to scream "get me out of here", so we shot some video. I had made the tactical error of not taking my vitimin I, that was a mistake. I have been taking so much of the stuff I had blood work done for liver function to make sure everything was OK, I pop them like candy, not good! Personally when we are skiing we don't video tape, it can really suck up precious time. These are some short quick radius turns on a relitively steep race hill. I'm still burying the bottom of the turn and need to work on getting more active on the top. There is a little pitch here so you can get some speed up in these turns which I think lends itself to a hard edge at the bottom. What do you think??


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