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Are Intuitions the "holy grail"?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
As mentioned in this thread, and others, I've been troubled by my boots for quite some time. They're Nordica Beast 10s, purchased brand new last season. I've been shell-fit in them, and they're good length-wise. They've been punched at the sides a couple times, so the forefoot width is good now. I have custom Kork footbeds, and those have been modified / trimmed a couple times by my bootfitter as well. All this in an attempt to prevent my forefoot (both sides, but right faster than left) from going numb after about 15 minutes in the boots.

Despite all my other "tests" to try to figure out what's wrong, I now wonder if i could be getting pressure on the top of the instep, specifically over the navicular bone region at the top of my feet, which is cutting off circulation or pinching nerves. The reason I suspect this is because after I wear the boots for a while and the toes go numb, I immediately remove the boots and socks and look for signs of redness or irritation -- and that region is the only one that is red and sore on both feet. I hadn't paid any attention to that before...

My bootfitter has (so he says) lowered my footbed as much as he can, and he says he can't do anything to stretch the plastic of the boot over that area to increase space. I get redness and pressure over the navicular bone even when the both toe clamps are unbuckled. Sounds to me like I'm pretty much out of options -- except perhaps to jump into Intuition liners.

Is there any chance that those liners can be molded to eleviate the problem I'm having with the pressure on the top of my instep? Or will I need to look for a different brand / model of boot? Not sure I want to dump nearly $200 bucks on new liners if they don't have a fairly high chance of succeeding in solving the problem, despite how promising the rest of the Intuition buzz sounds (warmth, etc.).

What do you think?
post #2 of 15
Be it Intuition or Raichle Thermoflex, I have been sking these liners solely since the early 90's and they are fantastic. Warm, light, no pressure points, IMHO the perfect liners.
post #3 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by trochilids View Post
he says he can't do anything to stretch the plastic of the boot over that area to increase space.
umm why not? you can punch just about anywhere on the boot that is plastic, and also grind. Is it RIGHT on the cuff screw? You can still strech out the boot on, and around that area. If not pad around that area to bridge over the pressure point if you have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trochilids View Post
Is there any chance that those liners can be molded to eleviate the problem I'm having with the pressure on the top of my instep?

yes, when they are molding add some padding to your foot in that area, as the liners come off you will have a extra bump in the liner. You usually can just add the liner, without heating it, and see if the pressure is better or worse. Even if they are molded you seem to be able to feel the numbness in store, so if they don't work the store should not charge you for them.
post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
umm why not? you can punch just about anywhere on the boot that is plastic, and also grind. Is it RIGHT on the cuff screw? You can still strech out the boot on, and around that area. If not pad around that area to bridge over the pressure point if you have to.


It's too bad bootfitting can't be done by mail-order.

Sigh...
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 

Giving it a shot...

Well, bit the bullet Christmas Eve and got in line at World Cup Ski shop in Anchorage to purchase Intuition liners. Quite an experience.

Can't wait to ski them. I think it'll take some getting used to -- the part about finding the best buckle position, anyway. With the stock liners I skied with the all buckles on the first latch. To mold these liners, they latched both toe buckles on the 2nd latch, and the ankle buckle on the third and the calf (top) buckle on the very last one (fully tight). Said that position afforded the best fit for my leg shape. They moved the upper buckle back a notch on the boot, so now I can buckle it comfortably on the 2nd buckle...

So far wearing them around the house I'm still getting the forefoot going to sleep (@)#($*@#)). And now instead of just redness on the top of my foot I have a nice stitch mark from the liners down the center line.... I might be tightening the buckles too tight. Or maybe I'm just cursed...

I'll get to ski them tomorrow -- we have at least 4 inches of new snow here today (love a White Christmas!).
post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by trochilids View Post
It's too bad bootfitting can't be done by mail-order.

Sigh...
It can...www.daleboot.com
post #7 of 15
I have almost the same boot (beast 12), and just got intuitions. They're awesome, and work very well for this boot, especially since the liner gets chewed so fast. I also have high insteps, and found that since the switch to intuition and 1 day of "packing them in", I'm now pain free 99% of the time. The other 1% being off center landings where I jam my toe, but that's more my fault.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
Well, skied my Intuitions for the first time today and there is a distinct improvement in overall comfort over the stock liners, but the numb toes are not totally gone, just delayed (and now they return to normal when I ride the lift with boots unbuckled). It seems fairly obvious to me that I need to work on the buckle adjustment -- how tight -- to solve this problem. But they sure feel GOOD skiing down the hill, as long as I unbuckle for the ride up.

I am having a "pinching" problem on the top of my foot now -- no longer a pressure point, but an abrasive pinching feeling, and it's most noticeable when my feet are hanging while riding the lift. The liner barely wraps around the top of my foot , and I wonder if I don't "set" them properly in my boot, they may actually indeed be pinching or allowing the plastic boot cuffs to hit my foot (if the liner comes upen slightly in the middle?). I fiddled with them quite a bit during the day and think there is light at the end of the tunnel.

The shop where I had the liners baked sounded very interested in fixing any continuing problems with them, so I'll continue to work with them to get this solved. These liners ARE very warm and comfortable to ski in, though! I'm excited. I'm heading to Idaho for a week of skiing and visiting family (Bogus, Brundage...), and I think these liners will work well while I'm gone -- I'll get 'em back in the shop for a bit of tweaking after the New Year.

Happy Holidays!
post #9 of 15
Also make sure that the #2 buckle over your instep isn't tight. I ski mine super-loose without any performance issues. You don't need to crank it down, just to hold in place.
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
Perhaps an update is in order...

I've had a chance to ski these liners fairly hard for several days and am relatively pleased. I still wouldn't consider them the holy grail, at least not for my foot in this boot, but they are a distinct improvement and while I'm not doing back flips I am very happy. I still feel odd pressure around the forefoot and my forefoot will go numb after a few runs if I don't unbuckle on the lift or when walking around the lodge. I can deal with that -- seems par for the course and a fact of life for many folks anyway. But they are very warm (outside the forefoot).

Interestingly, with my stock liners my forefoot never felt cold to the touch when it was numb, but with these liners my toes do feel cold to the touch when I take 'em off. I also seem to be getting quite a bit of snow infusion into the toe box from the crease by the toe buckles. Perhaps some boot gloves are in order...

When I had them baked and molded, the shop buckled my boots VERY tight. I can't ski them that tight, at least on the top two buckles (I leave the instep and toe buckles barely latched). But if I don't crank the top ones down I feel a lot of "slop" in my boot. The boot plastic around the leg appears somewhat deformed if I buckle the top buckles tight enough, and it creates rather intense discomfort.

My options, I guess, are to either ski them tight and unbuckle immediately after a run, or have the liners baked again with a looser buckle setting to provide more "liner fill" around the lower leg. What would you suggest as the best (or other) option?

Thanks.
post #11 of 15
if you get them re molded go footbed less and let the liners mold into your footbed. this will give you more room in the toe box and better overall fit.
post #12 of 15
I have had a similar problem. I think the soreness on the top is from a high instep in a ski boot. I use ZipFit liners and they help because they have cork heat molded tongue, but it is not eliminated. when you're on the lift, the weight of the boots and skis exacerbates the issue. The numbness issue which i share with you. i'm told it may come from a rigid footbed and it was recommended to me to try heat molded footbeds that are not rigid unlike the cork ones i currently use. So, Bushwacker's idea of just going with the molded liners and trying it w/out the footbeds might just work. I'll try some heat molded insoles and you try that and we can compare notes. OK? seriously, i'd be curious to know if you try it and have any luck with that.
post #13 of 15
Where to buy intuition liners?
post #14 of 15
I just bought the zipfit liners and have three days on them - they are really great. The first day is a little bit rough, but they were better the next day and really awesome on the third day.

I also bought the heated bootbag, this really helps because the liners are nice and warm and more pliable when you put them on.

(Edit) - I also found that with the zipfit liner I need very little tension in my buckles. I used to have to really crank them down to stabilize my foot (and I had proper shell fit and also custom cork orthotic).
post #15 of 15
I have a high in-step w/ veins running over the top. Always had the "feet go to sleep" when I had to crank the in-step buckles to get the boot fit tight. When I got my Intuitions fitted I had them put a 1" diameter peice of hard foam on the in-step and only put the buckles on the first notch. This fit has been pefect for me, in fact I only do the toe buckle to keep snow out, in-step buckle has almost no pressure.:
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