New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Scrape wait time

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hi all;
I know this has been discussed before, but darned if I can find it.

I usually wait ½ hour after hot waxing, (Dom Zoom Hydro), to scrape. The wax is a bit difficult to remove at this point, especially on my Metrons, (concave tip). Am I really gonna reduce the "wearability" of the wax job by scraping sooner?
Thanks!
post #2 of 24
For very hard waxes you can scrape when the wax is semi-soft.
post #3 of 24
Don't scrape until the wax is fully cooled. Yes, it's harder to scrape when cool because it's bonded better to the pores in the base. That's a GOOD thing!

The ONLY reason to hot scrape is to actually pull the impurities out of the pores in the base. Just wait until it has cooled. "Be patient young grasshopper."
post #4 of 24
A metal scraper (used judiciously) can help with harder waxes as can a very sharp plastic one and stiff brushes. I prefer the Tim the Toolman approach and use a drill and metal roto brush :, followed by HH & Nylon.

Using minimal wax is a good idea to reduce scraping time and mess, especially on harder waxes. If you find you end up with a lot of excess, you can absorb it using fiberlene or other lint free towel between your iron, then let it cool. I don't think that scraping harder waxes when it is semi-soft is entirely wrong (as long a thin film remains), though possibly less than optimal. If you're short on time and mojo, what the hey.....try it and see how it works for you.
post #5 of 24
Again, DON"T scrape wax until it has FULLY COOLED. And DON"T use a metal scraper to remove wax. Metal scrapers should only be used to remove p-tex repairs and curls of base material. Even if you are careful, it's just too easy to do damage to your (relatively soft) ski bases.

If scraping wax correctly is too much for you, just pay to have a ski tech do it for you. They are typically young and strong!
post #6 of 24
Sorry dude. But not everyone who doesn't work in a ski shop is a gaper using basic hand tools. Believe it or not, there are other trades out there where some basic (and more intense skills) are required. I probably did more damage to my bases skiing Woozley's way Wednesday than I could ever conceive of doing with a simple metal scraper. Having said that, yes you could muck up your bases if you don't pay attention.

....and I truly doubt if you scrape semi-soft hard wax, your glide will be completely ruined.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
Sorry dude. But not everyone who doesn't work in a ski shop is a gaper using basic hand tools. Believe it or not, there are other trades out there where some basic (and more intense skills) are required. I probably did more damage to my bases skiing Woozley's way Wednesday than I could ever conceive of doing with a simple metal scraper. Having said that, yes you could muck up your bases if you don't pay attention.

....and I truly doubt if you scrape semi-soft hard wax, your glide will be completely ruined.
:
Huh? I'm not implying that only shop techs know how to tune skis! If you want to use the wrong tools for the job, go ahead. If you want to scrape wax that hasn't fully hardened into the base, go ahead. Just don't insult my profession when you are obviously a hack. This forum is for skiers looking for the correct answers on how to tune from the pros, NOT how you cut corners by home hacks!

Use plexi scrapers for wax. Metal scrapers are not made for wax. PEACE!
post #8 of 24
(Gotta love a guy who insults another and then cries out PEACE. Is Dr D also a hack as well for suggesting the semi-soft scraping? Any more insults to pass around?)

For a hack, my skis glide and carve very nicely, thank you.

I have not insulted your profession, nor you. I just call BS on the 'holier than though' attitude that was been seemingly just below the surface in your posts since you started. Get over yourself. To get all pissy over a frickin' metal scraper or scraping semi-soft wax is pretty sad (especially for a recreational sport) and unprofessional. A light touch with a metal scraper is a real option, bearing down is not. It's a straight edge, rigid tool than can save some time and additional sharpening of a plexi-scraper.

Most people are not pro/elite skiers or tuners and are looking for practical options and alternatives. Many want it as simple as possible and fun. Others are anal and intense and there's everything in between....and those who won't do anything, including take it to a pro when they should. There is a range of options for those inclined, to achieve their own desired results, their own way. Some are optimal and ideal, others 'work OK' for rec skiers, others are just wrong. It is not black & white and your attitude creates a level of paralysis for some, where if one does the littlest minor mistake, your skis are destroyed or you are an idiot. My goal is for others to realize that their boards are not fragile when they are on a bench, like they are not when you are cranking turns on man made snow or worse.....they can survive some minor mistakes and inaccuracies. Absolutely perfection is not required.....though desired with the least amount of time, effort and expense.

Quote:
At what level do you or do you want to learn to maintain, repair, wax, structure and giving some love to your boards? What amount of effort do you wish to employ? What level skier or rider are you? What level of results are acceptable for your personal needs & goals?



Leisure/Casual/Recreational-wants to protect their investment and do the basics only to keep it simple and fun.
Performance-recreational & pros, depending on priorities and other factors can range from the highest standards to allow for some 'rationalized' or acceptable 'slop', but still want very good performance and maintain gear.
Serious-racers, pros (makes a living on skis or snowboards) and performance-minded recreational, etc, where only the highest standards of tuning, waxing, repairs, tasks tools and supplies are considered and practiced.
BTW, Happy Holidays & Peace to you and everyone else.
post #9 of 24
I'm sticking to my guns and waxing the right way, using the right tools. You can do what you want. It's a free country.
post #10 of 24
You guys are both bozos . I don't even scrape half the time!

BTW Terry, I have been using Maplus universal brush-on exclusively on my RX-9s, and it's been working great. I am really impressed with the result. And the best part, no scraper required .
post #11 of 24
Usually a scotch is about right.
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
.... I have been using Maplus universal brush-on exclusively on my RX-9s, and it's been working great.
219,

By "brush-on" do you mean the little squeeze bottle with sponge tip applicator? I also have some of that from Terry, and looking forward to trying out. Skis are freshly hot waxed, but I was picturing using the rub-on bottle as needed in between ironings.

BTW, how are conditions at Snowshoe? We're leaving tomorrow for the Blue Ridge, but haven't seen many glowing reports.
post #13 of 24
Skier219, would that be a Bozo Hack or a Hacking Bozo? (Least I'm not a Pro Bozo ).

Again Craig, skiing parking lots or coral reef Atlantic Coast conditions: are not considered scraping.....you hack. (Glad the Uni Liquid is working for you.)

DKN, FYI, the liquid skier219 has is paraffin, while the Universal with the sponge applicator is low fluoro and you can also iron that as well for increased durability....without scraping. :

Happy Holidays all!
post #14 of 24
If you use a hard wax like a Swix CH4 it is OK to scrape while semi-soft because when it cools it can get very hard. After scraping the bulk of the excess wax, then let it cool, scrape again, and brush. Waxes not in this category just wait for them to cool before scraping.
post #15 of 24
I take my time working on each ski... Wax and iron slow. Then do the other ski. About the time you finish the second ski, the first one should be about ready to scrape. This stuff isn't rocket science. Nor is it a race. If the ski is no longer warm to the touch, it's probably cool enough.

Wax both, drink a beer, then scrape.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKN View Post
219,

By "brush-on" do you mean the little squeeze bottle with sponge tip applicator? I also have some of that from Terry, and looking forward to trying out. Skis are freshly hot waxed, but I was picturing using the rub-on bottle as needed in between ironings.

BTW, how are conditions at Snowshoe? We're leaving tomorrow for the Blue Ridge, but haven't seen many glowing reports.
Yeah, as Terry clarified, this is what I am using:

http://www.slidewright.com/proddetai...prod=MW0612%2A

Snowshoe was doing good earlier in the week, after getting some decent natural snow on the tail end of the Nor'easter (they got a nice shot of wraparound snow). Between that and snowmaking, I think they are in decent shape at the moment with over 30 trails open and counting. However, today and tomorrow will be warm, with the threat of showers, so there will be at least a temporary hit to conditions (all of the East coast will experience this I think). Starting Sunday night, the weather looks good for a week or so, including snow Wednesday night through the weekend.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
I'm sticking to my guns and waxing the right way, using the right tools. You can do what you want. It's a free country.
And the right tool is often a well tuned metal scraper. It is a myth that plexi scrapers won't damage a base. They are harder than the base material, so just like Moh's hardness scale from Geology 101, they can do the same damage as any other scraper harder than the base. A thin metal scraper filed square, then dulled with 600 grit sandpaper is a great tool if one has several pairs of skis with ch4 to scrape. If it is too sharp it will take a layer of ptex too, but with some skill and experience one can tune it just right.
post #18 of 24
If you're doing it at home (weekend warrior style), just use plexi. The only time I used metal scrapers when I worked in a shop was when I was doing base repairs. It's not necessary for wax scraping, but if it floats your boat, then by all means... A sharp plexi scraper works fine though. Just buy a sharpener. You'll be fine.

But if you must use metal scrapers for "hard wax", then set down your purse, hike up your skirt, and go for it!!
post #19 of 24
One of the main reasons you scrape when cool is because if you scrape warm and then let it cool, more wax creeps out of the base and clogs your structure. If you need to scrape while warm (not hot, just warm) because the wax gets too hard (e.g., Swix CH4), do it but remember you really aren't done until the ski is at room temp, and you will need to scrape and (especially) brush again.
post #20 of 24
I hot wax mine, let it cool, then scrape with a plastic scraper.

I know i usually don't get enough of the excess wax off but i find that it usually just rubs off on the hill and doesn't seam to be an issue for me.
post #21 of 24
I hot wax mine, let it cool, then scrape with a plastic scraper.

I know i usually don't get enough of the excess wax off but i find that it usually just rubs off on the hill and doesn't seam to be an issue for me.
post #22 of 24
From a seminar that I took with a World Class Ski Tuner, I was told that an improperly sharpened plexi scraper could damage the base. Obviously, the same is true with a metal scraper if improperly sharpened or used incorrectly.

At a seminar with a Swix tuner, when I mentioned the difficulty in removing the CH4 wax, I was told to let it cool for 30 minutes and then warm it with an iron prior to scraping. He agreed that it is difficult to scrape when at room temp and said that warming it up prior to scraping was the recommended method. Note that he said "warming it" - this does not mean remelting all of the wax as was done when initially applied. Also, this is only the case with the hardest / cold-weather waxes, the rest should be scraped at room temp.

And yes, if you do your scraping at room temp and then bring the skis outside, the skis will contract and wax will be forced from the bases. Not necessarily something to worry about, but this is what will happen when the skis are brought outside to winter conditions.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by quickk9 View Post
From a seminar that I took with a World Class Ski Tuner, I was told that an improperly sharpened plexi scraper could damage the base. Obviously, the same is true with a metal scraper if improperly sharpened or used incorrectly.


And yes, if you do your scraping at room temp and then bring the skis outside, the skis will contract and wax will be forced from the bases. Not necessarily something to worry about, but this is what will happen when the skis are brought outside to winter conditions.
Good info here.....bearing down with a dull scraper will flatten structure.

For xc races at really cold temps we wax, let sit, rewarm a bit, so that they will scrape without chipping, scrape, brush, put outside, then rebrush the crap out of them. Makes a big difference in dry -20 snow to really get the base scraped and brushed clean. More brushable wax does indeed come to the surface after cooling.

I've been told that when the wax such as ch4 or Start green is too cold to scrape and just chips off, that nothing gets into the pores. Scraping warm does leave a film to polish and work over, where chipping the wax off seems to do nothing. I've worked with several top racers and techs, and none of them chip off those cold weather waxes.
post #24 of 24
Back to the original poster's question. Regarding the concave bases of your
Atomics. I have two plexi scrapers one thinner then the other. I use the thinner one at times pushing in on the center with my thumbs to bend it a little. That then gets into the concave tip area well to remove wax there. In general I prefer the thicker one, but it's nice to have one you can bend a little.

Mount a panzar file to your workbench and run the scraper over it to sharpen it often. There are four long edges on a scraper. I mark the Scraper with a top and bottom. I then use one side - both edges (front of scraper and back of scraper) for one ski. Then flip it over for the other ski, this way I keep using sharp edges. I then re-sharpen before doing another pair. In addition to the panzar I have a scraper tool I bought online that I use as well.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs