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Olympic skiing legend Stein Eriksen badly injured - Page 3

post #61 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldoski View Post
davluri makes an excellent series of comments in his post concerning the Stein Eriksen collision with a 9 yr old boy. It is ALL ABOUT the intent of the rules. Situations are fluid and rules cannot account for every potential event.

Yes the rules/skier-code calls for the downhill skier right-of-way but COMMON sense and AWARENESS dictates that one should look up or even give a sidehill glance at the very least when ABRUPT and UPREDICTABLE changes of direction could unduly surprise the uphill skier in ANY situation or position on the hill - especially from a blind location like sidehill trees for godsakes. Let's get real here. Good skiers always ski in control relative to the variables listed above but good skiers will also frequently carry controlled speed near the trees at the edge of a run - afterall trails are only so wide in some areas - this is a fact of life and always will be - so be advised, this is a reality.

KEEPING your eyes open and always using PERIPHERAL VISION is key for all skiers - uphill or downhill. All considered I believe that the child was clearly at fault - and his parents should have instructed the boy not to ever blindly enter a run unless he is certain per visual confirmation that it is clear to jutt out into the hill unexpectedly. I have been skiing since I was 18 months old and have skied all over the world - my parents taught me from the beginning that it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to blindly enter a ski trail from the trees or from another trail for that matter - and to always look quickly uphill if I'm going to make abrupt directional changes. I have been preaching this for YEARS!! No uphill skier of even the greatest ability on earth carrying any speed at all could always avoid a blindside entrance by a skier period! The determining crash factor may also be at what point of the turn arc and where on-edge an uphill skier is (not only speed) when a blind skier entrance on the hill occurs. This is just a luck/chance issue as outcome determinant.


Happy Skiing to ALL...and look uphill please!
This is already covered by the code:

- Always look uphill before entering a trail. Clearly the child was at fault in this situation. You do not just fly out onto an open trail from the trees.

As far as responsibility on an open slope, although it is prudent to be aware of your surroundings, it is the responsibility of the uphill party to avoid the downhill party, period, end of story, no contest, no debate, case closed.

If a surprise move by a downhill skier would cause you to collide with him/her then you are either skiing too close to that skier or lack the requisite skills and ability to react in such a situation and should not be skiing in close proximity to others. Generally, this means skiers who ride the tails and skid and cannot react in time to change their direction.

There have to be certain rules of the road. Adding all kinds of nonsense about a downhill rider always having to look behind him/her simply confuses the issue of responsibility and creates chaos. You, as the uphill rider, have the duty and the legal responsibility to avoid what is in front of you. If you do not or cannot understand this rule, cannot obey this rule, or believe it is the respnsibility of the downhill rider to pay attention to the riders behind him/her, then you do not belong on the hill. You are a danger to everyone else as well as yourself. Please do not ski or board. Thank You.
post #62 of 117
yeah whatever. I am not ashamed to say I like skiing DV. I also enjoy SB Alta, Solitude. Nothing like being judgemental to everyone with a nice broad interweb brush.

I also like Stein too but everyone can make a mistake, never claimed to know who is at fault. Here's to hoping all involved get well soon.
post #63 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct55 View Post
yeah whatever.
Thank you.

The rules are great and we should follow them. But just like the rules of the road, you have to be able to understand and use them. That's why nine year olds don't get drivers licenses. If the kid was at fault, oh well. Kids do not have the decision making skills that adults have. They don't have the bank of experience that is needed in situations like this.

But nine year olds should ski and they should not have to ski with an adult. No doubt, skiing is a risky sport, and this is an example. Will there be a law suit?

Get well soon, Stein
post #64 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
Thank you.

The rules are great and we should follow them. But just like the rules of the road, you have to be able to understand and use them. That's why nine year olds don't get drivers licenses. If the kid was at fault, oh well. Kids do not have the decision making skills that adults have. They don't have the bank of experience that is needed in situations like this.

But nine year olds should ski and they should not have to ski with an adult. No doubt, skiing is a risky sport, and this is an example. Will there be a law suit?

Get well soon, Stein
Skiing is risky but IMO it is true that people today seem more oblivious to the rules and etiquette. Too many newer skiers and boarders today approach skiing like it is a ride at an amusement park. Yesterday at KTon while riding the lift, I saw 2 teen girls flying down the hill in a wedge, obviously lacking any control, but headed to a crowded intersection. One of the girls was laughing and screeching like they were at a concert, the other one saying 'I just know I'm going to hit someone', then more laughter.
post #65 of 117
I agree. Many of the newcomers are clueless about etiquette, about safety and the rules. When I think back, we were educated about these things. Didn't stop us from jumping off the lift and the like, but we knew what was expected. Back then it was a pride thing. You knew all about skiing. Now it's like, "who cares".

But the nine year old probably doesn't fit that category. I bet he just made a mistake and maybe Stein was skiing fast. Like when you check before you pull out in a 30 mph zone and someone comes through at 70mph, close call. That's lack of experience.
post #66 of 117
I have no special insight on what really happened. I hope Stein and the boy get well quick. However, Stein is well known to ski fast and this isn't the first major accident for him in the last few years. I can't help thinking about the similarities I have seen in some senior automobile drivers I know. They just don't have the same reflexes or vision while continuing to motor around in a speedy manner far and wide. Meanwhile their frequency of accidents, small and large, increases causing harm to self and others.
post #67 of 117
Young skiers typically consider themselves "real", and everyone else a poser (or "turkey", as we used to call non-locals when I lived at Whistler).

I once lived this arrogance, at a level commensurate with anyone here, or on TGR.

Youth brims with testosterone, confidence, and (usually) limited funds. Hence, they revel in sneering at older skiers desiring comfort and elegance - as epitomized by Deer Valley. It's the perfect target for their ridicule.

Age is the equalizer. As one's testosterone, and hard-charging self-righteousness mellows, the bank account matures. Suddenly, the idea of skiing in comfort, with a high-level of service no longer appears revolting.

Some who disparage DV haven't skied there. I prefer Alta and Solitude over DV. But, I've also had some superb powder days at Empire Canyon at DV. It's not all groomers and Bogner, and some prefer to envision.

When you're 50, if you can still ski, you'll get it.
post #68 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct55 View Post
I am not ashamed to say I like skiing DV.
You know what's hilarious? Like 99% of the people on this forum--and I include myself, here--would be wise to get down on their knees and thank the ski gods if they were somehow whisked away and given the opportunity to make the rest of their turns at a place as good as Deer Valley, or Vail, or any of the other resorts we (myself included) love to dump on. Yeah, there are a few of us who live and ski at places with better terrain, snow, etc. than DV. But not that many.
post #69 of 117
Re Deer valley : I was on your side of the pond this november and I picked up the late issue of Ski. There was this ad :



Which let me totally flaggerbasted.
WTF is this run ?! A straight, short, narrow and flat strip of snow cut in a man made forest ? That's supposed to make me drool ? Is that the best they can do ? The lamest low elevation resort in the alps can pull out a better pic than that. Where's the moutain ?
And give Nathalie a helmet, for christ sake !
post #70 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post



WTF is this run ?! A straight, short, narrow and flat strip of snow cut in a man made forest ? That's supposed to make me drool ? Is that the best they can do ? The lamest low elevation resort in the alps can pull out a better pic than that. Where's the moutain ?
And give Nathalie a helmet, for christ sake !
This is an artist rendition of Heaven, somewhat dull.
post #71 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
This is an artist rendition of Heaven....
Or hell, depending on your point of view....
post #72 of 117
And I had a pair of French skis once and they sucked?

Jean Claude was Irish too.

Name a good French car; I've had one and it was a nightmare, so bad my MG's seemed reliable.

Damned, you see a pic of a kid looking through the woods .. and the place sucks?

Don't like it. Don't go there, vote with your dollar ... or Euro ... at least you were spared using the Mark ... as in ... South Eastern Bavaria .. using Reichsmarks :
post #73 of 117
Yeah, you know they have helmets now with pony tail slots. Seriously. Just trying to keep the peace.
post #74 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
And I had a pair of French skis once and they sucked?

Jean Claude was Irish too.

Name a good French car; I've had one and it was a nightmare, so bad my MG's seemed reliable.

Damned, you see a pic of a kid looking through the woods .. and the place sucks?

Don't like it. Don't go there, vote with your dollar ... or Euro ... at least you were spared using the Mark ... as in ... :
Reading comprehension issues ?

I'll repeat slow-ly : The lamest low elevation resort in the alps can pull out a better pic than that.

I didn't said the place sucked. I've never been there. I said the ad sucked, from a skier point of view.

Other than that, congrats, you got all your retarded anti-french clichés in order.
Too bad you choose a sport where frogs got better terrain, better gear and better attitude.
post #75 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
Reading comprehension issues ?

I'll repeat slow-ly : The lamest low elevation resort in the alps can pull out a better pic than that.

I didn't said the place sucked. I've never been there. I said the ad sucked, from a skier point of view.

Other than that, congrats, you got all your retarded anti-french clichés in order.
Too bad you choose a sport where frogs got better terrain, better gear and better attitude.
I wouldn't touch that last part with a ten-metre ski stick (euro irony intentional). Though I don't agree with Philippe, his view is defensible. There's some awfully good skiing in France, to say the least, and great skiers (and ski-makers) to match. I prefer the North American approach to skiing (occasional bad manners expressed here notwithstanding), but that's just me.

The rest of what he says is right on. We were talking about the ad, remember? I'm not sure you can say it sucks, because it may have been very successful with its target audience. But it sure doesn't push any buttons for me.

On a more fun topic, what other anti-French stuff could he have thrown at Philippe? Galloise-smoking, cheese-eating, beret-wearing, Olympic Downhill at-the-last-minute-snatching, fast train-riding, poodle-walking, Jerry Lewis-loving?

Me? I love France, but then I love any country with serious mountains.
post #76 of 117
My point exactly .. so now phlippe is the "ad police" ????

The whole comment was so inane. And in a man made forest?

What did just hit me was the subtle ad appeal ....

Here at Deer Valley, little Nathlie don't need a stinkin helmet. Here at Deer Valley we don't allow the mainiac fringe even in the lot.

Hmmmmmmmm. Sounds like my kind of place.

Now if they have polite folks in the lift lines too ... I just may be on my way. Not that I am of the country club set since I tend toward junk yard dog ..... It would be nice to ski where I don't have to worry about punching out the lights of the gear swiping, lift cutting, hit me from behind sucm for a change.

It actually sounds relaxing. I need that.
post #77 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
It would be nice to ski where I don't have to worry about punching out the lights of the gear swiping, lift cutting, hit me from behind sucm for a change.
Ah, well Europe is definitely the place for you...
post #78 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post
I wouldn't touch that last part with a ten-metre ski stick (euro irony intentional). Though I don't agree with Philippe, his view is defensible. There's some awfully good skiing in France, to say the least, and great skiers (and ski-makers) to match. I prefer the North American approach to skiing (occasional bad manners expressed here notwithstanding), but that's just me.

The rest of what he says is right on. We were talking about the ad, remember? I'm not sure you can say it sucks, because it may have been very successful with its target audience. But it sure doesn't push any buttons for me.

On a more fun topic, what other anti-French stuff could he have thrown at Philippe? Galloise-smoking, cheese-eating, beret-wearing, Olympic Downhill at-the-last-minute-snatching, fast train-riding, poodle-walking, Jerry Lewis-loving?

Me? I love France, but then I love any country with serious mountains.
Eh, I love Italy. But I love every country with gorgeous women...

And, yes, Jerry Lewis rules !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
My point exactly .. so now phlippe is the "ad police" ????

The whole comment was so inane. And in a man made forest?

What did just hit me was the subtle ad appeal ....

Here at Deer Valley, little Nathlie don't need a stinkin helmet. Here at Deer Valley we don't allow the mainiac fringe even in the lot.

Hmmmmmmmm. Sounds like my kind of place.

Now if they have polite folks in the lift lines too ... I just may be on my way. Not that I am of the country club set since I tend toward junk yard dog ..... It would be nice to ski where I don't have to worry about punching out the lights of the gear swiping, lift cutting, hit me from behind sucm for a change.
No, that was not your point.
Your point was
"the place sucks?"
"Don't like it. Don't go there"

You flat out misread my comment regarding the ad and the image it wish to promote, not the resort, that's all. Now you try to land on your feet. (wow, karate. may I touch you ?).

And, yes, man made forest. With evenly spaced trees, all of the same size and age. Can't you see that ? You remember how a real forest looks like, do you ?
post #79 of 117
prickly ... ... I love karate & love to ski; just not at the same time.

The one time I did get to ski a powder dump in Switzerland, it was off season ... I know .. I was lucky.
post #80 of 117
Quote:
I love Italy. But I love every country with gorgeous women...
I think your president agrees...
post #81 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post
I think your president agrees...
And now, for something totaly different

post #82 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
Re Deer valley : I was on your side of the pond this november and I picked up the late issue of Ski. There was this ad :



The lamest low elevation resort in the alps can pull out a better pic than that. !
How about this one?



(For the record phillippe, I'm hoping to buy a place in France one day)
post #83 of 117
Mr. Dendrologist can spot a stand of native trees from a stand of "man made" trees now can he?

Well, Mr. D. just for the record, on our side or your side of the pond, "native stands" of trees are very rare.

I'm still perplexed on how you posted (sans edit) .. on my karate .. before I did?

"may I touch you?" ........ simple .... No! :
post #84 of 117
I've skied Deer Valley. And everytime I see an ad for Deer Valley I want to go back! And I am in the advertising business!!

Some fantastic skiing at Deer Valley for anyone who loves, well, skiing.

Get well, Stien!!
post #85 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post

No, that was not your point.
Your point was
"the place sucks?"
"Don't like it. Don't go there"

You flat out misread my comment regarding the ad and the image it wish to promote, not the resort, that's all. Now you try to land on your feet. (wow, karate. may I touch you ?).

And, yes, man made forest. With evenly spaced trees, all of the same size and age. Can't you see that ? You remember how a real forest looks like, do you ?
Do you really believe your original post deserves careful reading? :

If French skiing is so superior, why doesn't your country produce top ranked racers?
post #86 of 117
While I agree a broken clavicle hurts; I broke my clavicle, my patella, and crushed my glenoide in a little mishap a couple of years ago, I still say Stein's no wimp, and I bet he will be skiing again this season.

Mmm Deer Valley, I would like to get to know some of those women with antlers:.
post #87 of 117
I broke my clavicle three times. It's no big deal. Even if it doesn't heal, he can ski. You don't need collarbones to ski.
post #88 of 117
if it's not healed and you fall you can pierce the sub clavian artery. Then it's a big deal
post #89 of 117
That's the kind of thinking that keeps other 80 year olds on their couches.
post #90 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato View Post

Youth brims with testosterone, confidence, and (usually) limited funds. Hence, they revel in sneering at older skiers desiring comfort and elegance - as epitomized by Deer Valley. It's the perfect target for their ridicule.

Age is the equalizer. As one's testosterone, and hard-charging self-righteousness mellows, the bank account matures. Suddenly, the idea of skiing in comfort, with a high-level of service no longer appears revolting.

Some who disparage DV haven't skied there. I prefer Alta and Solitude over DV. But, I've also had some superb powder days at Empire Canyon at DV. It's not all groomers and Bogner, and some prefer to envision.

When you're 50, if you can still ski, you'll get it.
I'll be 52 shortly, and I ski about 40-50 days a year, mainly at Whistler, CO and UT. When I "get" DV I'll be ready to hang up my skis. Life's too short for insipid groomers and resorts that rely on food and service. The only redeeming characteristic as far as I'm concerned is that it's snowboard free.

As shown before in DV's ads, shallow, impeccably groomed trails are their forte. This is gliding, not skiing. I bet when I'm 60 I still won't get it. I guess people just age differently.
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