EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › canting strips where to buy?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

canting strips where to buy?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
It was suggested to me by an expert boot fitter to see if I can arrive at a comfortable stance myself, with regard to boot alignment. It was suggested that I use old credit cards or duct tape under my footbed.

But I would like to know where I can buy actual canting strips (not the kind necessarily to use under the binding). I saw something at Tognar, but dont know if its what I need...also seems a bit steep for a little piece of plastic ($20).

If I cant do this then I will have to fork over an additional $200 on top of the footbed I already paid for, $220, for a boot that I probably wont use after this season. :
post #2 of 26
Did you try the ideas of a credit card or duct tape? Inside your boots it seems like this would work pretty well. You could also make some out of cork sheets that you can get at Home Depot.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
No I havent. Next week will be my first time back on the slopes this season, going away to Stratton, I would like to get this sorted out before I get there.
post #4 of 26
I was going to suggest Tognar's but in re-reading your post I see you've found that source. You can use also use strips of Bontex or folded over duct tape as ssh suggests. PM Bud Heishman who's a canting professional and and he may have other suggestions.
post #5 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
No I havent. Next week will be my first time back on the slopes this season, going away to Stratton, I would like to get this sorted out before I get there.

Duct tape travels well.
post #6 of 26
Back in my racing days we used yogurt containers. Just cut them to the desired shape.

One layer equals one degree.
post #7 of 26
Ah CANTING... Have a pro boot fitter do a skeletal alignment on you. There is a bit of science involved. I first thought that if you were knock-kneed, you should have the thick part of the cant on the OUTSIDE of my foot.... Wrong! It's the other way around. Kind of like reverse logic! They can give you a "prescription" for your binding mounter to follow.
Keep in mind that canting under the binding (rather than the boot) works best-in my experience. Do not stick wedges under your boot either. It messes with the release values... not good! Also you will need to mess with the binding screws lengths to accommodate extra space under the binding! With drastic canting (3 degrees+) the mounter will need to actually cant the pilot holes before mounting the binding.

P.S.- If you come out with less than one degree of canting needed, don't worry about it. You have a built in cant tolerance of at least 1.5 degrees built into your skeleton/binding/boot slop... and you will naturally adjust anyway. Don't bother unless you need 2 or more degrees.
post #8 of 26
Canting inside your boot is a waste of time.

My experience has been that what works in the shop and what wokrs on the hill whne actually skiig may not be the smae.

Using tape strips on your boot sole to experiment is a valid way to dial in yourself what feels best on the hill while you are actually skiing not standing static on the shop floor. this of course is not a permanent solution but a way for you to determine how much canting and where to cant before you have your boots permanently ground. There are no hard fast rules with canting. it is part art, part science. Contrary to what was written above, some folks react better to filling the void to change the pressure under their ski others react better to moving the knee into alignment. no hard fast rules. this is why tape canting before canting your boots is a great idea.

My boot guy does not use duct tape. I will look tomorrow at the tape he gave me to experiment with and post what type of tape it is. It is something different. 2 strips = 1 degree. iIt is not meant to experiment with tape canting in powder, (useless) bumps or extremmly icy steep gnarly terrain.

when tape canting your boots (actually I put on the binnding) it is probably a good idea to stick to groomed blue runs at moderate speed.
post #9 of 26
Don't let a boot fitter cant your boots. It drastically shortens the life of the boot. The shims that they screw (with dozens of tiny screws) onto your boot soles are not DIN standard in many cases and they crack/break off alarmingly easily. Cant under the binding if you NEED cants. Don't wreck your boots!
post #10 of 26
If you really need cants, I'd probably suggest boot planing rather than ski cants. With boot planing, they just grind the sole of your boot to get the angle you need. The advantage is that if you plane your boots, you will always have the right canting regardless of the skiis you are on--otherwise, you'll be stuck if for whatever reason you can't ski your own skis. Also, it is a pain to have mount cants on every pair of skis you own. AFIK, the only real downside to boot planing is that you will have to remember to wear cat-tracks on your boots whenever you are walking around.

Alternatively, some high end boots (like the Lange LF 130) have heel and toe plugs that can be swapped out for canted versions--giving you the benefits of boot-planing without the need to grind on your boot (and therefore the need to wear cat-tracks).

Anyway, I'd talk to a boot fitter about planing before investing in ski cants. I had them and hated them. In fact, you might want to post over on the "Ask the Boot Guys" forum about your options. A good boot fitter will be able to review all of your options with you so you can make an informed decision.

BTW, did your boot fitter do an alignment check on you? Normally you start with that to find out how many degrees you are out. As Atomicman says, that is the starting point--not necessarily the answer. Play with the tape for a degree or so either way and see what works best for you. But don't start playing with canting until you understand exactly how many degrees you pronate or supinate.
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Since I have limited time where I can get quality boot work done, I decided to just bite the bullet and made an appt. at Green Mountain Orthotics Labs at Stratton. I am going to let them evaluate me, hopefully they are honest and do good work so that I dont waste my time and money.
post #12 of 26
post #13 of 26
Thank You ATOMICMAN. I have been waiting for someone to say that canting is done on the outside of the boot not inside. Alignment (aligning of the body) is done on the inside of the boot. Canting is done on the outside, on the bottom of the boots. Anyone telling you they are canting the boots on the inside is doing only half the job. And the screws on the side of the boots are to align the upper cuff to the leg (not canting).
post #14 of 26
Why would someone need canting if they were able to be aligned inside the boot to achieve a neutral position ? If a neutral stance can be achieved inside the boot isn't this sufficient to being able to stand "flat" on your skis?
post #15 of 26
A neutral stance isn't necessarily the end-goal. Some people ski better off-neutral. That is why you need to experiment and find out what works for you instead of just taking the angle that will get you to zero.
post #16 of 26
That's a good point. I liken this to having a lot of negative camber like in auto-crossing or track. You might be better at turning short turns if you're a little on your inside edge theoretically.

The other thing is, I think a lot of people (myself included) have a slightly longer leg on one side. It's nothing I require a lift for normally etc but there can be little idiosyncrasies due to this. Not to mention right handedness which can extend to legs also.

Personally since I don't race, I don't worry about such things.
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
Why would someone need canting if they were able to be aligned inside the boot to achieve a neutral position ? If a neutral stance can be achieved inside the boot isn't this sufficient to being able to stand "flat" on your skis?

You misunderstood.....I was looking for canting stips since they are wedge shaped, to do my ow inner boot alinment.

Well I am at Stratton right now, skiing horribly, what a year and a few broken bones can do to a guy! I am no longer sure I need anything done. I think I just need more time on the snow. Something still does not feel right, but I am not sure what it is.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Since I have limited time where I can get quality boot work done, I decided to just bite the bullet and made an appt. at Green Mountain Orthotics Labs at Stratton. I am going to let them evaluate me, hopefully they are honest and do good work so that I dont waste my time and money.
I have fotbeds from GMOL and I like then a whole lot!
post #19 of 26
I 'm curious to learn what they have to say and what they recommend. I met the guys last year up at Vail that used to be at Stratton GMOL and have read boot fitting and alignment articles that they have written. They are held in very high esteem in their industry. That's not to say you can't get good boot work done elsewhere but the likelihood and prospects of getting a spot on assessment and fix to your issue at GMOL are very high. Good Luck!
post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
Matt at GMOL assessed my situation. Today I tried skiing in the 6-10" of powder and had to stop mid mountain due to so much pain. I said enough is enough. Went to the shop he took my boots apart, measured my feet with calipers and said: my foot beds are very poorly done, they are not supporting my foot the way they should be, he pointed out to me what they should be doing and showed me evidence on my current setup of how it is not doing it. He also said that my boots are 103mm, what I need is 100mm, to compensate I am latching down my boots to keep me secure. He said I should take my foot-beds back to whoever made them and that they should give me a refund, because they are not good at all.
I told him I had the Head FCS 100mm lasts in there but Benny at Inner Boot Works hacked them up (basically made them back into 103mm lasts) and modified my footbeds which had originally been fit to me back in NY where I bought the boots. Matt said that the 100mm last would not be the solution. He seems to be very knowledable but I don't know if that was accurate, since he does not carry Head boots, so I don't know how familiar he is with what I was talking about. But Matt was very helpful and informative, he did not charge me for his time and I told him that once I decide what I was going to do that I would come back to him; and I plan on it.

I have lots of money invested in these boots, but if they are not right I did not want to spend more money on them. I skied one more time and called it a day at just 1:30pm....on a powder day (I went down the mountain only 2 times today!. I will still be at Stratton tomorrow, and had bought tickets to ski, but will not, don't want to be in pain, and disappointed and risk hurting myself, since my boot situation is also causing me to dangerously stress my inner knee, which according to Matt is a direct result of my badly made foot-bed. So thats my story.
post #21 of 26
Ouch! That just stinks!

Worth a drive up to visit Benny, since you're not skiing, anyway?
post #22 of 26
My symapathies regarding a ruined ski vacation. and the money you have already spent. Your situation would make me crazy!
Sounds to me like somebody has to be able to get you in the right shell and support your foot with a well made footbed. Which doesn't sound like that impossible of an achievement for a good boot fitter. According to GMOL you need to get narrower in the last. I'm wondering to salvage some skiing if you stacked a couple of bontex shims below the liner if this would take up enough volume in the boot you could ski the boot without needing to buckle so tightly. At best this suggestion is a half ass band aid that might allow you to ski a day with less pain and would only cost a few bucks.

I think ssh's suggestion to go back to the scene of the crime and get your boots figured out probably has the most merit. You need to get right and the shop that did the work has to step up and do some comp work to deliver some satisfaction for the money you spent IMHO.
post #23 of 26
oh man - that's awful!

This obviously needs to be addressed ASAP. So I guess I don't understand why you didn't go back to where you got them - because they're so far away? This illustrates the problem with fitting when you're not skiing near the fitter. OTOH I'd hate to have them fit someplace and then have to go back if problems develop. Maybe the right thing is to plan a few days while you have them setup near the mountain so you can kind of address stuff as issues arise. Then again how many powder days do we really get each year around here (not enough).

I'm thinking this through because at some point soon I'll need to go through this process myself. My cousin who instructs up at Stratton has mentioned GMOL as one of the best around and I was planning to head up there to have it done. I've also heard the other side from a few people on this board. The stakes are high on these fittings so you want to get it right.
post #24 of 26
Thread Starter 
Update, I didnt hold back and told the manager at Princeton Ski in Roslyn NY what pains and expenses I have gone through and he has generously agreed to take back the boots and offer me full credit towards new Head Raptors. They only carry the 120 RS which I will go and try on some time this week, but depending on how I like the fit and shape they can special order me the 130 RD or 150 RD....this is great news.

I wont be making it back up to Stratton anytime soon (5hr drive) otherwise going to GMOL would be a no brainer for fitment. So, now I just need to find a bootfitter that is less than 3hrs away from me and that is fully equipped and has lots of experience fitting race/plug boots.
post #25 of 26
Keep in mind the RD is a narrower last than the RS. Maybe 95-96 for the RD, and maybe 98-99 for the RS. Somebody here will know. Just wanted to mention this as there is more than a flex difference when you go from the RS to the RD. Raptor line flex and width similar to the Atomic CS and TI RT series. Weren't your Head boots 103 mm with a 100 mm insert. Can't remember how you had them modified. The difference in the last width for the RD vs the RS could be significant and if you go with the stiffer flex RD model you may need some grinding width wise. It's never easy with boots.
post #26 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
Keep in mind the RD is a narrower last than the RS. Maybe 95-96 for the RD, and maybe 98-99 for the RS. Somebody here will know. Just wanted to mention this as there is more than a flex difference when you go from the RS to the RD. Raptor line flex and width similar to the Atomic CS and TI RT series. Weren't your Head boots 103 mm with a 100 mm insert. Can't remember how you had them modified. The difference in the last width for the RD vs the RS could be significant and if you go with the stiffer flex RD model you may need some grinding width wise. It's never easy with boots.
Yes, you are correct and I am aware of this, I understand waht you are saying; even with the 120s on hand I wont really be getting a feel for what the RDs are like since they are a very different animal.

Atomicman and I have spoken about the 150 RD and he told me his feet are about the same length as mine, but way wider (106cm) and though it did take a good deal of work, the boots were customized to fit him perfectly, he even free skis in powder and bumps in them:

Yes my boots were the 103 with the 100 last which were then promptly hacked back into 103 :.

I am reasoning since I have difficult feet to fit (judging by all the bad experiences I have had thus far), I might as well go all out and get the performance I want and start with a clean slate, that way with a competent fitter I hope to finally ski aggressively without pain. But once I get into those 120s I will see how I feel. I think I am really only concerned with the liner, all that padding on lesser boots just compresses and makes the boot feel loose when really pressed.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › canting strips where to buy?