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Learning how to carve by tucking? ;)

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
This might be unorthodox but has in my experience worked very nice when I've tried it with friends.

For me I think it's difficult to make the student (well friend in my case as I'm a programmer now, but let's call him/her student for simplicity) to grasp the concept of connecting the arcs. It's very difficult imo to persuade the student to not rotate. The rotation is skiing in their minds.

My trick is putting the student on a very flat slope or transport path (what's it called in english?) in a downhill tuck.
Ok first thing is making the poles point back instead of up in the air like a V..
Well, then I very simply tell the him/her to ski straight forward and put the butt out to the left and then to the right staying in that tucked position.

My experience is that I may have to explain somewhat more once or twice when they stop that they should point the "wrong direction" in the turn and relax, but almost always by the end of that slope they do arc to arc carving.
Now the problem that obviously occurs is that skiing upright is a little different. IE the work isn't done but rather we have to go through a "new set" of movements.
However the positive is that they immediately grasp countering and also the feeling of arc to arc carving.

I'm a little curious what you guys think of this.
God or bad?
post #2 of 14
I love your entusiasm and your fresh ides . Yes, Ive been teaching carving from a tuck ever since I was thaught myselfe it in Austria back in the 70s. Back then our straight r=80m skis did not carve that well so the consept was pritty much unknown. Im allways referring to DH, SG and GS WC skiers on flat easy parts of the track.

However, its not allways that easy to teach students to carve. If they dont understand how to put the skis on an edge then they skidd this way allso but for the most part its a deffinet winner. No ski schools I have been teaching at has approved it though....

One thing Im glad to hear you mention is pointing the wrong direction, upper body counter (counteracting). PSIA doesent teach such movement if I have been correctly informed and they use a much more square stance. Lets see what the bears come up with.

Good topic.
post #3 of 14
Its a great drill to help teach counter.
post #4 of 14
Teaching the feeling of the ski carving back and forth under your CM via tuck turns is a classic exercise. Good and not bad at all.
post #5 of 14
Mechanically it makes sense. It is really hard to steer your skis from a tuck, easy to tip them due to the high amount of flexion, and the use of counter in the turn actually promotes tipping the skis on edge. It seems like a good drill to me. In fact, I may test it out this season.
post #6 of 14
An examiner I was working with suggested this exercise to facilitate both the learning of the edging movements associated with carving turns as well as an exercise to improve stance and balance. I like it and use it with my students.

Mike
post #7 of 14
This exercise is helped if the hands are extended as far forward as possible and the hands clasped together. The tuck doesn't need to be very low. One caution is that the edging of the skis needs to start at the feet (or in this case by the forced counter & angulation), not by thrusting or driving the hips.
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
This exercise is helped if the hands are extended as far forward as possible and the hands clasped together. The tuck doesn't need to be very low. One caution is that the edging of the skis needs to start at the feet (or in this case by the forced counter & angulation), not by thrusting or driving the hips.
The movement is to point your butt one way. This will automatically tip your skis onto their edges and you will start arcing. I think the beauty of this drill is that you actually do not have to do anything with your feet. Usually when people skidd they actively pivot their skis. In this drill the feet stay completely passive.
post #9 of 14
I did this exercise at a clinic a couple of years ago Carl R and not only was it fun, but it did have us all carving. I had'nt thought about it until you mentioned it, but I'm going to try it to help get me carving better for sure! .

Great suggestion!
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmiser View Post
I did this exercise at a clinic a couple of years ago Carl R and not only was it fun, but it did have us all carving. I had'nt thought about it until you mentioned it, but I'm going to try it to help get me carving better for sure! .

Great suggestion!
Snowmiser, think of what kind of advise I gave you in your MA thread!
post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 
Wow. Thanks for the kind words. Nice to hear it's used elsewhere too.


Like tdk6 says the icing on the cake is telling them that it's a valid racing technique for the gliding parts of the track, or better yet if there's DH showing on the tv at the cafe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
This exercise is helped if the hands are extended as far forward as possible and the hands clasped together. The tuck doesn't need to be very low. One caution is that the edging of the skis needs to start at the feet (or in this case by the forced counter & angulation), not by thrusting or driving the hips.
A DH tuck has the arms (elbows) in front of the knees and the hands pretty close together. Also I think if you don't go low, it's easy to cheat on this drill. The idea is to benefit from a stance where it's difficult to rotate but easy to get the skis on edge (even unknowingly) by just using counter.
post #12 of 14
tdk6 your right about that upper body counter comment that you had with my MA request. This excercise really puts that to use! If you don't have it, you'll fall right into the hill.
post #13 of 14

It's definitely valid...

...and you'll see it as a drill on the USSA Fundamentals 1/Fundamentals 2 DVDs, which I got when I went for my L1 Coaching certification last year. These DVDs have an incredible amount of good information on them, and I recommend them to all. The thing that's really cool is that while they have all kinds of stuff regarding how to turn left and right, they also have a whole bunch of other skills...gliding, gliding turns, dealing with terrain...that most people never think about outside the race course, but, IMHO, are skills that all skiers ought to have...
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
A DH tuck has the arms (elbows) in front of the knees and the hands pretty close together. Also I think if you don't go low, it's easy to cheat on this drill. The idea is to benefit from a stance where it's difficult to rotate but easy to get the skis on edge (even unknowingly) by just using counter.
Yes, but the downhill tuck has a different purpose...aerodynamic efficiency. This is just locking the body parts so they can't interfere with the skis going on edge. And, some folks can't get low without poking the pole tips up, and they can still do this drill as long as they tuck as low as they're comfortable keeping their hands way in front and the poles level. One has to avoid making the hips the point of attention--they're allowed to cross the skis, not actively thrust to the side. Just countering (counter rotating the upper body) is all it takes to put the skis on edge and that's all that should move in these drills. The people need to feel how the feet go on edge as they counter.
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