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Where have all the moguls gone? - Page 2

post #31 of 52
ha, who would have thought an a forum on "epic" ski there would be people talking about wanting less bumps.
post #32 of 52
What happens to powder when it gets skied? I thought it became "consistently choppy" (through various stages of crud) before it became completely skier compacted. Then it becomes "packed powder", then it bumps up.

Maybe the places you ski are skied by powderhounds who leave after the crud has been all chopped up. They move on to the backcountry perhaps. As long as people continue to ski the run, it will get moguls. Where are you seeing moguls not develop?

I like moguls and ballet skiing is pretty cool too, though I can only do a few very basic moves. When I travel to western states for skiing, I'm looking for powder, not moguls, although they have the sweeeeetest moguls.
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeworest View Post
ha, who would have thought an a forum on "epic" ski there would be people talking about wanting less bumps.
Really.

BMM - good job defending the bumps

I consider myself a pretty good skier, but I'll never consider myself an expert skier because I can't ski bumps with ease. Prolly never will now, as both knees are having problems. Moguls are part of skiing. If you can't ski moguls well, you're not an expert.
post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
I just do not understand why anyone would want to ski moguls.
How 'bout, because they're really fun!!! And I'm happy to hear WP/MJ still has boingy-boingies!
post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiDork View Post
Really.

BMM - good job defending the bumps

I consider myself a pretty good skier, but I'll never consider myself an expert skier because I can't ski bumps with ease. Prolly never will now, as both knees are having problems. Moguls are part of skiing. If you can't ski moguls well, you're not an expert.
Amen. Moguls represent the biggest challenge for most skiers. Backcountry aside. Mogul skiing demands a different skill set than groomed snow skiing. I'd never say an excellent groomed snow skier isn't an excellent skier, but if you are avoiding bumps, I don't think you're a complete skier.

Moguls( at least for me) can be very humbling and always challenging. Moguls also can make the same vertical ski a lot bigger. I think you got to try and ski them and challenge yourself a portion of every ski day. You're cheating yourself maybe if you don't. When you are able to ski a bump run a little better than you were able to the previous time down, its a feeling of accomplishment. At the end of the day, To each his own, "It's all good", and about having fun, and moguls can be alot of fun along with being frightening, humbling, and challenging.
post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
As far as I'm concerned the only reason to ski them is to get to or from decent skiing.
Reverse that theory 100%, and you have my point of view. For me, the only reason (aside from training) to ski groomers is to get to bumps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
Every time I see an ad (esp for CO resorts) that shows major bump fields I just scratch my head. They sure aren't marketing to people like me...
nor do they intend to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobucks View Post
I just dont have the right rhythm to ski bumps correctly. And i'd be happy to never see one again. On that note, I have noticed far few bump runs in the past 10 years or so. Seems like most resorts let a few runs bump up, but groom out the rest. Fine with me : )
really glad that isn't happening at my home mountain. Come on over to WP/MJ and take a bump lesson; I think you'll find that getting "the right rhythm" isn't as hard as you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doogiedoc View Post
How 'bout, because they're really fun!!! And I'm happy to hear WP/MJ still has boingy-boingies!
post #37 of 52
This is weird timing. I just opened the Jan 2008 issue of SKI that I got in the mail Saturday and guess what's highlighted on pgs 78 - 83,106.......the bumps of Mary Jane and how to ski them by one of the most respected bumps instructors in the USA...WP's Ski School Director Bob Barnes. The article is pretty accurate even though he looks a little serious in one of the pictures.: If you want to learn to efficiently ski bumps in a fun relaxed environment.....Bob's the MAN!

Note: the picture of him skiing on page 81 is him on Cranmer...which is not a mogul run but has some bumps to one side. The writer did go down Outhouse after two bump Pods...and noted the warning sign before entering. He seemed to really enjoy it.
post #38 of 52
Daysailer1, are they grooming a path down Outhouse this year? That seemed like a terribly failed experiment to me.
post #39 of 52
Honestly I don't know if they are this year. I can ask Bob Barnes on Saturday. I don't know why they did that last year. Maybe too many people accidently wandered in there and didn't have a safe way to get down. It is on the Winter Park side.
post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
What happens to powder when it gets skied? I thought it became "consistently choppy" (through various stages of crud) before it became completely skier compacted. Then it becomes "packed powder", then it bumps up.

Maybe the places you ski are skied by powderhounds who leave after the crud has been all chopped up. They move on to the backcountry perhaps. As long as people continue to ski the run, it will get moguls. Where are you seeing moguls not develop?

I like moguls and ballet skiing is pretty cool too, though I can only do a few very basic moves. When I travel to western states for skiing, I'm looking for powder, not moguls, although they have the sweeeeetest moguls.
Good God, please don't tell me people still "ballet ski". That sends shivers down my spine.
post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobucks View Post
I just dont have the right rhythm to ski bumps correctly.
Rhythm?!? We don't need no steenking rhythm! Whaddya think this is, a synthetic comp course where they're all the same size and spacing?? Turn where ya want, turn where it's easy, suck 'em up, extend, smear, keep the edges soft, set the edges hard, zipper, round loopy turns, change it up, go play. And keep yor feets under you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
Mogul skiing demands a different skill set than groomed snow skiing.
I respectfully disagree. Mogul skiing requires the same fundamentals as groomed snow skiing. The blend is different, the application is far more complex, but the skill set is the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daysailer1 View Post
This is weird timing. I just opened the Jan 2008 issue of SKI that I got in the mail Saturday and guess what's highlighted on pgs 78 - 83,106.......the bumps of Mary Jane and how to ski them by one of the most respected bumps instructors in the USA...WP's Ski School Director Bob Barnes. The article is pretty accurate even though he looks a little serious in one of the pictures.: If you want to learn to efficiently ski bumps in a fun relaxed environment.....Bob's the MAN!

Note: the picture of him skiing on page 81 is him on Cranmer...which is not a mogul run but has some bumps to one side. The writer did go down Outhouse after two bump Pods...and noted the warning sign before entering. He seemed to really enjoy it.
I'm looking forward to seeing it. SKI arrives a bit later in Canada. Bob used to humiliate me regularly in the bumps and elsewhere. I like to think I've improved, but I'm sure 30 minutes with him would show me otherwise.

WP/MJ has some very good bump instructors - as they should. But then so do other areas. Chris Hagenbuch at Steamboat is excellent, for example. And there's the Bob Barnes at Keystone (as seen on Epicski!).
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
As far as I'm concerned the only reason to ski them is to get to or from decent skiing.
It depends.... If you're in the Rockies and there's been some decent snowfall, they are far more forgiving than the bullet-proof moguls I remember at Killington and Hunter.

The nice thing about skiing the Rockies is (almost always) if you don't like some section of a slope -- for whatever reason -- you can "bail out" and move your line over "that way" 200 yards and ski a different kind of terrain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
I'd never say an excellent groomed snow skier isn't an excellent skier, but if you are avoiding bumps, I don't think you're a complete skier.
Agreed. An excellent bump skier is almost always also excellent in powder ... the steeps ... the trees ... and on groomers. (An excellent cruiser isn't necessarily good on the other slopes.)


I'll always be thankful to "Earl" who (about 25 years ago) took our group over to Bear Mtn. at Killington and showed us the six ways to ski the bumps. (Until then I knew of only one way to *bash* my way through those suckers!) I'm 51 and I'm still trying to get my 29 y/o son to appreciate the bumps....

- KK
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
Good God, please don't tell me people still "ballet ski". That sends shivers down my spine.
Sorry that I frightened you. If you don't hear from God on this, maybe check with a psychoanalyst about why you had such a visceral reaction to the thought of ballet skiing.
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Sorry that I frightened you. If you don't hear from God on this, maybe check with a psychoanalyst about why you had such a visceral reaction to the thought of ballet skiing.
My thoughts exactly. What's with the aversion to oldschool freestyle? There's nothing wrong with ballet. I'd love to be able to ballet ski my way down the hill on a whim.
post #45 of 52
BMM

How's Stein's looking. Last time I ski it the bumps were big, soft and tight - the moguls.
post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by daysailer1 View Post
Honestly I don't know if they are this year. I can ask Bob Barnes on Saturday. I don't know why they did that last year. Maybe too many people accidently wandered in there and didn't have a safe way to get down. It is on the Winter Park side.
I just got an email from Bob. His thought is that the grooming is a good thing snow permitting as there are a plethora of awesome bump runs but very few steep groomers.

I guess that a pretty valid thought that I never had. Although the few times I was on Outhouse last year the groomed had been scraped quite thoroughly down to a very firm surface. Seems to me that grooming that run invites peeps who are looking for a shortcut over to MJ and figure if they can avoid the bumps they can handle it.

He is right though, there are one or two other good bump runs there
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
... maybe check with a psychoanalyst about why you had such a visceral reaction to the thought of ballet skiing.
i did. He said it was perfectly normal.
post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
My thoughts exactly. What's with the aversion to oldschool freestyle? There's nothing wrong with ballet. I'd love to be able to ballet ski my way down the hill on a whim.
I used to practice some ballet moves back in the 70s. Never tried to get a routine down or anything. A lot of those moves are great drills for edge control.
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
My thoughts exactly. What's with the aversion to oldschool freestyle? There's nothing wrong with ballet. I'd love to be able to ballet ski my way down the hill on a whim.
I don't see anything wrong with practicing the ski ballet moves or doing some tricks heading down the hill. It's building routines and putting on costumes that scares me... When skiing gets too close to figure skating, I just feel my own masculinity fading away....
post #50 of 52
Quote:
He is right though, there are one or two other good bump runs there
Yeah, there might be a few awesome bump runs at WP/MJ. :

I'm glad he got back to you with an answer so quick. Bob's an awesome SSD and bump instructor. He's all for fun and excellent skiing/riding.

I actually love steep groomers. They are the only thing that will get me on skis these days. Get to fly faster than when I'm on my board.
post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
BMM

How's Stein's looking. Last time I ski it the bumps were big, soft and tight - the moguls.
Looked decent yesterday. Was skiing with a flat-lander cousin ( ), so didn't hit too many bumps. I'll ski it tomorrow and let you know!
post #52 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHedgie View Post
I don't see anything wrong with practicing the ski ballet moves or doing some tricks heading down the hill. It's building routines and putting on costumes that scares me... When skiing gets too close to figure skating, I just feel my own masculinity fading away....
Agreed on that. I was just talking about ski ballet moves... not the whole choreographed shabang.
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