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What boots to start with? - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Thread Starter 
Interesting and confusing info at the same time...

Skibum, I wish I could find a deal like that!


Here's the options I have right now:

  • "Beat" T1's from TGR. Shells only, but  I can snag them for $25. If the shell fits I'll search for some liners...
  • T-Races, 27.5 (same shell as the 28)-$200 TTips
  • Crispi XP's, 28 TTips-$200
  • Garmont Syner-G, 27, TGR $?
post #32 of 50
krp8128: Scarpa's mondo->English conversions aren't real-world based.  And the mondo sizing between brands isn't consistent.  And alpine boot size doesn't necessarily correlate to tele boots.  So what you really need to do is try the boots on, if for no other reason than each tele boot manufacturer uses different lasts and they have a different fit.  Each of the boots you mention above has a significantly different fit, even if the length size were correct you are likely to find that the boots feel much different on your feet.  
post #33 of 50
The beat T1 shells sound like a good and basically free option, basically, depending on photos and rep of seller.  But w shipping time and uncertainty as to fit you pay in those ways.  In terms of retail shops there are a number in the NE with nice used tele boot shelves.  IME in North Conway is for personal reasons a favorite place to stop in just in general, for instance, and they have a great used gear (of all sorts) area.  If you are heading to a given location between now and end of summer anyway, planning to visit one of these shops and see what they have may make sense -- you will often find boots in your general size/target support rating.   If it were me I'd snag the used shells anyway subject to photos and poster rep, then still hit a place where I can try things on "live."  Worst or best case scenario, you end up with two pairs that work for you.   

I like stiff boots but personally I don't thnk yiu'd be into the T-Races if you really are trying to learn to tele vs essentially parallel with them (parallel is perfectly legit though, and with AT's availability now parallel tele is always a good debate by itself). 
post #34 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

krp8128: Scarpa's mondo->English conversions aren't real-world based.  And the mondo sizing between brands isn't consistent.  And alpine boot size doesn't necessarily correlate to tele boots.  So what you really need to do is try the boots on, if for no other reason than each tele boot manufacturer uses different lasts and they have a different fit.  Each of the boots you mention above has a significantly different fit, even if the length size were correct you are likely to find that the boots feel much different on your feet.  


See that's my problem! According to telerod15 and common "convention", it should be...

Ideally, I would walk into a shop that carries Garmont, Scarpa and Crispi and try everything on with the aid of a good fitter. Seeing as how i can't really afford anymore then $200, that isn't going to happen. With no disrespect, I hate how the general response to any boot question is "See a fitter". Not everyone has the means to do so, yes it is important, but sometimes you just can't. Really, in a sport that was using leather boots 20 years ago, is a slightly poor fit going to affect me that much? Likely not. Even in alpine, a slightly sloppy fit isn't going to do much more then hold back techniquie, so should every beginer go out and get custom fitted race boots? Probably not.


Anyways, a few people at TTips have concurred that someone who uses a Lange 28 is a good bet in a Scarpa 28, so that is my focus at the moment. I'll probably hit up Kittery trading post on my way back home in August, it's only 2 minutes of the highway (pending tourist traffic-), and Conway is less then an hour from my parent's place, so i can look there too. I would check with Play it Again, but there prices have always been ridiculous for outdated equipment.
post #35 of 50
I've gone the cheapo tele boot route a couple of times for myself and kids as we got into tele skis initially.  If the fit is slightly large you can take up extra volume with a flat foam pad on top of the boot board and beneath the liners.  And you can get aftermarket liners that take a "maybe" fit to "pretty good."  No harm in going the DIY / used route til you find yourself hooked. 

Even then I'm still using a "good enough" but perhaps not perfect fitted franken-boot -- old shells, new Intuition liner and footbed.  A little tight but I could remold for more toe space I guess; life goes on.  Whole setup came in around $200 -- and I gave away the too-big boot that I got on ebay for $30.  Easy come, easy go.
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

See that's my problem! According to telerod15 and common "convention", it should be...

Why should it be?  

All the MP size does is tell you that one dimension of the complex shape of the inside of the boot is 26cm or 28cm or whatever.

Calling all 26.0 shells the same 'size' is like calling all boats with 17foot LOA the same 'size'.

The error here is in trying to label your foot first ('I'm a 28.0'?)  instead of trying to figure out what each size and last means relative to your foot.      A 28 in Garmont might be perfect for you, but you might feel that a 27 Scarpa is a  wide bathtub of a boot.

Make yourself a chart:

           BD  Garmont last 1   Garmont last 2  Scarpa  Crispi

27.5
28.0
28.5
29

and write in comments like (too short toes, pinches top of foot, bellows hits midfoot, huge at ankles, huge at heels) based on what you've tried  instead of just thinking big/small.


Edited by comprex - 7/22/2009 at 07:15 pm GMT
post #37 of 50
comprex has some good advice ^^, but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
Ideally, I would walk into a shop that carries Garmont, Scarpa and Crispi and try everything on with the aid of a good fitter. Seeing as how i can't really afford anymore then $200, that isn't going to happen. With no disrespect, I hate how the general response to any boot question is "See a fitter".

I just said you should try the boots on - for the reasons I stated - not see a boot fitter.  Do you have any friends that tele whose boots you could check out?  

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

Really, in a sport that was using leather boots 20 years ago, is a slightly poor fit going to affect me that much? Likely not. 
Heh.  You know there's a reason that no one uses leather boots any more?  That's why it's a good idea not to base your boot buying choices on 20 yo technology.  Just sayin'.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
Even in alpine, a slightly sloppy fit isn't going to do much more then hold back techniquie, so should every beginer go out and get custom fitted race boots? Probably not.

Well, if you're not worried about the boots holding back your technique then go ahead and just get the cheapest ones.  But that's kind of a rationalization to use that race boot analogy.  And I'm talking about comfort, not just performance - if your boots hurt your feet, you ain't gonna enjoy tele.  :shrug:

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

Anyways, a few people at TTips have concurred that someone who uses a Lange 28 is a good bet in a Scarpa 28, so that is my focus at the moment.

You'll probably be okay in a 28 then...unless you don't have a somewhat narrow foot.  I don't know siccim about alpine boots - are Lange low volume/narrow?  telerod's formula is a good ROT - do you wear a +/- size 10 street shoe?  
post #38 of 50
 TS-01 glad too hear that you are still using my old shells.
post #39 of 50
 What is my rotten formula? That mondopoint is based on length in centimeters? That adding the numbers (2 + 8 = 10) gives an approx. conversion to US size? That Scarpa uses English sizing as opposed to US sizing?

Until I learned about shell sizing, I was happy in Scarpa 12s, which I later found out are the equivalent of US 13.  My foot measures 11 1/2.  I knew they were too big, I wore really thick socks to fill up some of the extra space.
post #40 of 50
<cough>
Rule
Of
Thumb
</cough>
post #41 of 50
 Haha, nevermind. 

I must admit, Bob Lee and mudfoot have alot more knowledge and experience than I do.

I get a little nervous when I read "According to telerod15...". I don't try to present myself as an expert, my advice should be taken with a grain of salt.
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post

<cough>
Rule
Of
Thumb
</cough>
 



Yeah, take 28.5, and 2+8.5=10.5 (+/-)

I wear a 26.5 in Scarpa Terminators and wear a 8.5 US shoe size.  Usually, most of the time, YMMV, IANAL, etc...but I have taken the advanced Backcountry Connection bootfitting class from Masterfit U.  
Edited by Bob Lee - 7/26/2009 at 02:16 am GMT
post #43 of 50
Thread Starter 
Assuming they both fit,

Scarpa T1 (old version) vs. Crispi XP

Discus
post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

Assuming they both fit,

Unpossible.   In the same nominal size, the T1 will have more toe room laterally and more clearance between the bellows and the top of the foot for hobbit feet.

Scarpa T1 (old version) vs. Crispi XP
 

 Scarpas are easier to flip than Crispis.     

Don't even bother to worry about flex and pressure and control issues right now.     Try as many boots as you can and get a decent sense for the overall shape of the table I describe above so that you can start relying on extrapolation from what you know to what you want.
post #45 of 50
Thread Starter 
I know it is unpossible, but I was 90% blind and pulling the trigger on used boots.

I talked with quite a few people who are in a similar alpine boot as me, so I decided to go with the Scarpa's for $150. If they don't fit, I'm sure I can turn around and sell them for that.

Got to start somewhere...
post #46 of 50
Fit matters. Even more so than with alpine as your foot is flexing in the boot. Where your foot bends at the ball has to match the bend in the boot or you'll be trying to bend your foot where it isn't supposed to bend. A sloppy fit will let your foot move about and then you don't know where your foot will be trying to 'bend'.

Getting boots that fit should be job #1. If you don't have the budget, wait until you do. Or as someone mentioned go to IME. You'll find plenty of boots to try on there. Don't forget the hugh ESSC ski sale in NC around Thanksgiving(?), too. They still have that, don't they?

MR
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post

so I decided to go with the Scarpa's for $150. If they don't fit, I'm sure I can turn around and sell them for that.

It's a start.  

BTW,  as you make notes for yourself about the fit and performance of the various shells you try, -do- try the boots with more than just the liners provided.    A slightly thinner or differently padded liner may make all the difference.
post #48 of 50
You should have gotten them by now.

How's the shell fit?
post #49 of 50
Thread Starter 
just got them today and haven't really had time to play with them...
post #50 of 50
 Interested to see how you make out. My size 11 foot has a narrow heel with a low arch. Bought hardly used Scarpa Lasers. Euro size 10 = US size 11.  ($100, who could resist?)  and with a 3/8" thick midsole added they fit me OK with a thick sock. Then I fell into a pair of modo 28 Megarides. A little tight in the toes but easier to stretch a boot than to shrink it I am told.
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