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How tight are your boots ? - Page 2

post #31 of 44
I spent big bucks at Surefoot. They made custom footbeds and then injected inner liners. I like a "race fit" so they allowed the injected material to continue whatever chemical reaction occurs for about 40 seconds longer than usual. These are the most awesome boots I've ever had. I have about 450 days on them, they say most people will get up to 1000 days out of them. Bottom two buckles are at first notch. Top two buckles are at second notch with top strap sinched up tight. Warm as heck, no hot spots, never have to unbuckle, fit tight as a glove so they're super responsive, and supremely comfortable. During the day I sometimes have to readjust, but literally one or two turns of the buckle is enough to do it. The only problem is that because they fit so custom they're a PITA to get on and take off, but what the heck...I spend two minutes a day doing that for ultimate comfort the rest of the day. Can't say enough good things about this company. They will readjust your boot if you need to for as long as you own them, and guarantee the fit. (I have no financial conflict either.)
post #32 of 44
I mean really! I just don't see the "put up with pain - unbuckle after every run - cold feet - yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah".
Just like paying for performance with cash. The expense goes up exponentially while the performance goes up by small little ticks.

If you were to try the "perfect fit" boot that you could leave alone and stay in all day without touching, I seriously doubt your skiing would suffer or your feel would be compromised. I really think there is a high percentage of skiers riding in painful (even if it's just on the chair), cold, just under sized boots, because they think they must.

Few of us are world class. Few of us suffer, from a 0.0001% change in performance. Many just have the knowledge and a fear of not doing what is considered right or best.

I know what you are thinking. "I want to be the best I can be. Take it as far as I can with every turn." I'm saying, most of us are not in a class where it makes a difference.

It makes a difference if all of the physical aspects of your skiing are nearly flawless and with a high degree of repeatability.

I'm NOT saying you won't notice. So don't jump on that one.

I'm saying: "There is not a turn, move, trick, save, etc. that you would/could make in your painful-unbuckle after each run-I love 'em but my feet freeze-etc. boots that you could/would not make in something just a bit more tolerable.
post #33 of 44
Dead on DeadMoney.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMoney View Post
I'm saying: "There is not a turn, move, trick, save, etc. that you would/could make in your painful-unbuckle after each run-I love 'em but my feet freeze-etc. boots that you could/would not make in something just a bit more tolerable.
That's the reasoning that convinced me to retire the old race boots and get my crossmax 10 boots, that and considering that if that .05 seconds will make the difference between you hitting that rock and just missing it, maybe you should consider riding at 9/10ths instead of 10/10ths all the time.

I still think you should be able to get warm boots that fit and perform. It's just too mad there are so few good boot fitters.
post #35 of 44
I agree with Deadmonkey to a degree- boots that must be cranked to perform provide little increase in performance and are unnessecary for a vast majority of the skiing population. This doesn't mean, however, that boots with even a minimal amount of slop are okay for someone looking to perform their best, whether they be an elite college/masters racer or a technique-obsessed instructor. If your boots aren't firmly fitting without cranking the buckles, they don't fit properly. There are so many boots out there and so many talented fitters (we make it sound like they're rarer than they actually are) that there is almost no excuse for having sloppy boots these days.
post #36 of 44
doogiedoc: Which boot and liner did you get? Was the liner same as the boot or an after market? How much was the injected liner? Thanks
post #37 of 44
Mine are all mondo 24 (eu 5) for my size 8.5-9 feet. I used to buckle down, but my skiing & feet are better w/ minimal buckling & more balance
post #38 of 44
Current favorite: dobie 130 w/ 150 liner plus tounge pad sewn in plus, lifter 5mm- neutral, bolt on grand prix rear spoiler, plus booster straps, comformable insoles (not foot beds or orthotic)
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMoney View Post
I mean really! I just don't see the "put up with pain - unbuckle after every run - cold feet - yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah"....

If you were to try the "perfect fit" boot that you could leave alone and stay in all day without touching, I seriously doubt your skiing would suffer or your feel would be compromised. I really think there is a high percentage of skiers riding in painful (even if it's just on the chair), cold, just under sized boots, because they think they must.

Few of us are world class. Few of us suffer, from a 0.0001% change in performance. Many just have the knowledge and a fear of not doing what is considered right or best. ...

I'm saying: "There is not a turn, move, trick, save, etc. that you would/could make in your painful-unbuckle after each run-I love 'em but my feet freeze-etc. boots that you could/would not make in something just a bit more tolerable.
I actually agree with most of what DeadMoney says, but I feel the need to clarify …

edit: sorry, changed from DeadMonkey to DeadMoney ... no offense intended.

How tight are your boots? When I stated “if you're not grinding or bending plastic the boots are just too damn big” I didn’t mean “you’re” so much as “I’m”. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that I believe everyone should subscribe to that same philosophy.

However, I didn’t just wake up one day and say “hey I’ve gotta have the most obnoxious and potentially physically harmful boot fit I can get my foot in”. No, I spent YEARS looking for the most obnoxious and potentially physically harmful boot fit …

Okay seriously – I’ve been bolting, foaming, grinding and blowing out my own shells for the last 20 years. I also worked several years in ski shops tuning skis and fitting boots. I don’t claim to be an expert boot-fitter, but I’m no neophyte.

My personal boot fit philosophy was a natural progression that started with bolting my own boots as a young racer to make them stiffer, which led to adding to the liners to make them tighter, which led to plugs with foam liners.

Once I got on plugs there was no going back, but plugs were only made up to size 28 … so as my foot grew I had to do more and more work just to get my foot in them. I was always working on my boots.

Like many racers I took boot fitting to the extreme – mostly because my foot kept growing but the shell didn’t. It finally got to the point where I started to have problems – I remember joking that eventually my feet would mutate to fit the shell rather than the other way around … and they actually did a bit. Lesson learned.

I don’t ski in plugs anymore, but I still buy shells that need to be punched out, and use foam liners. They are always unbuckled unless I’m actually skiing down the hill, but I also never have to ‘crank them down’. They are not at all uncomfortable or painful - I ski & climb all day in them.

I consider boots that are just slightly too big (out of box fit) to be more uncomfortable and intolerable. For me ‘comfy’ boots might feel great on the lift, but they’re torture when actually skiing.

I think the “.0001%” performance gain comment is off by just a little bit … it could be more than you’d think. I would argue there are many more skiers with boots that are too large than the other way around ... unfortunately it's cheaper, quicker and easier for a shop to sell a boot that is too big than to make one fit right.
post #40 of 44
There's another instructor at work who is constantly buckling/unbuckling his boots. Even when he is standing around. The little ones, who always copy what we do, start doing it, too. He also can't stand upright in his boots for very long, saying "they're made to be skied in." He'll lean on his poles, squat, whatever. He looks like a dweeb, and he never gets any by-name requests.
post #41 of 44
Same here with the tight boot fit, went through many high end loose fitting boots in a short amount of time to learn that what I needed was a tight fitting boot with a stiff shell that has been customized. I have now gotten the boots almost to perfection, only to learn that what I now need is a stiffer shell. Back to square one.

Oh, I subscribe to the "these boots were made for skiing not walking" philosophy....it been my experience that when they feel good off the mountain it means my feet like a pencil in a bucket when on. The tight fit inspires confidence and control for me.
post #42 of 44
Thread Starter 
Deadmoney, your right.

The reason I started this thread was to point out that we all should try and adjust our boots. I have custom foot beds and enought boot work done to feel differences. Just from a couple of small adjustments in my mirco adjust buckles I gained a lot of performance and no pain. I still didn't touch my boots during lunch.

I also agree the boots are made for skiing. I can't stand in a lift line to long with out having to step out of the bindings.
post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaman View Post
doogiedoc: Which boot and liner did you get? Was the liner same as the boot or an after market? How much was the injected liner? Thanks
They're Lange's. We tried 10 different shells and those were actually the best fit for my foot shape. They then have you stand on a device that gently pushes 100s of tiny plastic rods up against the bottom of your foot and this creates a 3_D topogram of the bottom of your foot in the computer. They then put the foot orthotic "blank" in a machine that takes the info from the computer and custom grinds the orthotic (sort of like wavefront lasik customizes the lasik surgery for your particular eyeball). Then they rip out the OEM liner and all the other crap that comes in the boot from the factory, insert your orthotic into a liner that goes into the shell, then you put on some plastic and slide your foot into the injection mold. They inject while you're standing on a slanted platform (to make a better heel pocket). I think there's 4 different injection ports. Then you have to wait for a few minutes for the chemical reaction to occur, and, voila! Boots that fit you to perfection!!!
http://www.surefoot.com/index.php
post #44 of 44

The key is...

Start with an outstanding bootfitter, have them recommend the boots appropriate for your feet/alignment issues, and then let them work their magic. For me, this produced my current setup of comfortably snug, exquisitely precise Dobie 130's in a "performance fit" that required nothing more than a little grinding for big toe room on my longer foot. I put them on in the morning, buckle them gently snug, ski all day without futzing with buckles, and usually forget to unbuckle them during my lunch break. My current bootfitter tossed my old custom footbeds because they were causing, rather than curing, alignment problems. Now I'm well balanced with 30 dollar Superfeet insoles.
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