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Another MA Request Please!

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
I had a lot of great feedback on my first MA request, and was hoping to get some more on my carved turns video. This was on a moderately pitched slope (Black Diamond in S.E. Michigan ). Same conditions as prior video (hard packed and chunky monkey snow). Trying to work on getting cm across the skis more and being more fluid with no hesitation between the turns.

Thanks in Advance!
post #2 of 37
All I see is a white out. Must have been some storm.
post #3 of 37
Thread Starter 
No white out here, just a computer illiterate skier! I tried to embed the video with no luck. Hopefully Steve will come to my rescue again! :]
post #4 of 37
Work on getting your hips up over your feet (or your feet under your hips).
post #5 of 37
Check out the thread on focus. Oh! You need to work on angles too.

For the camera ...
post #6 of 37
Sorry, I can't see any carved turns there.

It looks to me like you rotate the skis rather quickly and then stay in the "lower c" part of the turn for a while to brush off speed. That's not carving at all.
What I personally think you should do is getting on a almost flat slope, and without turning put your skis 45 degrees on edge by moving your both knees either left or right (downwards to the side towards the snow).
Something will happen if you are going in a slow speed. If you happen to turn not by rotating, then you could just move the knees to the other direction. Not rotating from where you are. If you are pointing in whatever direction just move the knees to the other side. Your trails behind will form an S. There should be no angles or brushed off parts of your S you are creating.

Well, that's all you should do for turning from there on.
However just moving the knees won't do it when you get up to speed so obviously you need to use your whole body, but I think you got the rest of the body already. You just need to cut out all your rotation and fear of speed.
In order to keep the speed down, just stay longer in your turn. Why not keep turning (on your edge, no brushing or spraying snow) until you are skiing up the hill slightly?

Look at the first turn you do. First thing i see is a rotation. Get the first turn right, then the next. Just put them together.
Doing "fishing hooks" might be an idea. Just ski straight down and then put your skis on 45 degree angle like above and then wait until you point upwards and stops.

Regarding your upper body, I think you are overrotating. If your skis hook up and they do the turning for you, you wouldn't need to go first with your upper body.
Your upper body could rather counter the turn. Think like you should hit someone with your shoulder ice skating. Then you would go with your side and hip first into the collision. Your body should do roughly the same thing carving.
post #7 of 37

What a nice improvement over the other vid. Better edge engagement, much better movement through the transition and better overall balance.

Things to work on to make it better:

-slow down the movements through the transition so you have time to feel your new edges starting to engage.

--stay soft on your edges toward the end of the turn (don't try to set them) This will help with the frist one.

---Keep a level horizon, don't let your head and sholders tip in.

Keep up the nice work!

post #8 of 37
Thread Starter 
Thanks Ron! I took all of your imput from the other post as well as others who had commented and put some mileage on my skis to try to get it right. I felt an improvement so was happy that you noticed! Thanks for the positive vibes! .

post #9 of 37
FWIW, thumbs up for your eager to learn and being happy at the same time!
post #10 of 37
Thread Starter 
Thanks GrooK! I appreciate that!
post #11 of 37
Your video is too jerky and out of focus for my old eyes to see much here, Anne. I get a sense you're hunching forward from the waist and reaching forward to try getting forward, with the result the derriere gets behind where you want it. I also think you're moving laterally rather than diagonally in your transition from turn to turn and making that move too abruptly.

I'd go back to the more gentle terrain and spend some time trying to feel standing on both skis flat on the slope between edge engagements. Go from two edges in the snow to four edges on the snow to two new edges in the snow, feeling the bottoms of both feet at the four-edges point.

Once you can feel the feet at work, try advancing the inside hip slightly just as you start to engage the new set of edges. Don't rush any of these moves. It's unnecessary to do so on the flats. And don't be in a hurry to take these movements to steeper terrain.
post #12 of 37
Thread Starter 
Hi Kneale!

The camera that we filmed this with is just a cheapy from Target that belongs to my 13 year old son, and he was on a board doing the filming which probably didn't help any.

The hill that I was on is fairly steep at the top and I think that I was bending at the waist too. I like your 2 edge 4 edge and will try to keep that in my head. Funny I teach my students to go flat between edge change but don't do it myself. "Do what I say, not what I do!" .

I'll also try on advancing that inside hip as I start the edge engagement of the new edges.

Thanks for the help Kneale!!!
post #13 of 37
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
I'd go back to the more gentle terrain and spend some time trying to feel standing on both skis flat on the slope between edge engagements. Go from two edges in the snow to four edges on the snow to two new edges in the snow, feeling the bottoms of both feet at the four-edges point.
I'll echo Kneale's suggestion of taking this to gentle terrain for additional practice. If you want to carve/scarve well on steeper terrain you need to own the ability to balance on your edges at any point in the turn.

You'll have an easier time once you get your fore/aft balance issues sorted out. Along those lines I see some large arm movements that could be replaced with wrist movements. The larger movements will disrupt your balance.

The transitions in the first few turns where you are coming towards the camera show a knockneed stance. Is that caused by alignment or movements? You might be pushing the outside out to the side to get it up on edge quickly. I can't tell from the video.

If you have a nice gentle slope you can practice tipping from one set of edges to flat to the next set of edges making a nice gentle carve in both directions. As you get more comfortable with balancing on the edges (at slow speed) you can make the turns more round, such that you have a noticeable high c portion of the turn while on edge so that you are in balance while the bases are pointing up the hill. Doing this slowly on green terrain is difficult and requires alot of practice but it will be big dividends when you ski more difficult terrain. For this type of practice I like to focus on tipping the old outside ski first and allowing the new outside ski to follow. It creates a smooth transition and eliminates the big toe edge push out/off that many skiers have.
post #14 of 37
My observation matches Max and Kneale. I'd present Max's 1st suggestion slightly differently. Bend your knees less. Straighten your legs and your hips will come up and over your feet leading to being more effectivley balanced.
post #15 of 37
I don't believe in the too gentle aproach. If one haven't really felt the carve I think it's vital to realize how much it's possible to angle the skis and also how much the skis are able to turn without rotation.
Until the skier realizes a turn is carved or not carved the focus should imo be on experiencing that feeling of skis on rails.

I have seen too many people on the flatest of flat slopes without enough angle to perform a carve. Yes the skis turn. No they don't bite.
They need to bite.

Yes I'm blunt, but I think my advices are sound. I want to see you evolve.

PS: I'm assuming you are not on intermediate skis that doesn't grip enough to carve.
post #16 of 37
If the skier stays balanced and uses a tipping movement (no twisting) the skis will carve nicely at a low edge angle on a gentle slope at low speed.
post #17 of 37
But with a too low angle there won't be any forces from the turning and the sensation of "wow, I can trust them, they don't let go from the surface" will be missing. Then going steeper we're back to scarving due to low edge angles.
post #18 of 37
Skier's will have a difficult time carving steeper runs if they can't balance on their edges at any point in the turn. The slow speed low edge angle approach allows a skier to develop the bigger angles. The skier builds on the fundamentals of carving before taking it to the steeper slopes.
post #19 of 37
Skiing high angles with 50-50 distribution isn't difficult in shallow slopes. It's all about realizing what is arcing and what is not. She has all the fundamentals she'll ever need for this. All she needs from what I see is that wow experience.

She's an instructor. She's probably been going through her skiing over and over and over, and here we are. Still shallow angles. Why? You tell me.
post #20 of 37
Thread Starter 
It could possibly be a biomechanic issue that you aren't aware of. I normally leave 2 very clean arcs in the snow with my edges, however on the turn to my right, my inside angle will always be somewhat smaller than that of the outside foot. This is due to the fact that that ankle is fused and has absolutly no supination at all. I've had the boot canted 5 degrees out to just get me on that edge, but that's the best I can do.

I'll try to film another video with me skiing directly at the camera, or from directly behind me to really see what kind of angles I am really creating.

I worked on the countering issue today. I did a whole lot of hop turns and pivot slips and I think that it's helping. I also worked on my lazy right hand and could really feel the difference.

Thanks to all of you for the great feedback and suggestions. You can't fix something if you don't know it's broke, so this video MA is a tremendous tool for helping to improve my skiing!

Thanks Again!

post #21 of 37
Generally speaking, carving 50/50 isn't the goal. The majority of weight should be on the outside ski. If you take that approach its a bit difficult to get big angles on a shallow slope.

That's not to say that doing a long leg/short leg drill (in a traverse across the hill) on a steep slope isn't helpful. But, first the skier should be able to balance on their edges from the top of the turn to the bottom.
post #22 of 37
Max: Agree 50/50 isn't a goal, but it's a pretty good option for shallow slopes.

Anne: That would be A-framing as a result? I don't think A framing is the end of the world, as long as you have enough outside leg pressure when possible.

What kind of skis are you using? Most importantly what are their turning radius? If they are closer to GS than SL cut, they will need a lot of speed to carve cleanly. In that case a shorter sidecut may be beneficial for being able to perform the same kind of turn in steeper terrain and/or slower speed.

This video seems to be in soon all the threads I've answered to: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TTboYL8CjaU
..but I think it's that good. This is what I would like to see.
Watch how the skis in the lower C part is putting increasing forces on the skiers until they choose to change edge.

Also, have you read the (old) threads about skiing the slow line? You should be good enough skier to enjoy it from what I can see. Bud and ssh pointed me to the threads in the thread where I ask for MA. Bob Barnes describes skiing without braking by instead choosing different lines in an excellent way: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=8972
Might be interesting if you haven't read it before.
post #23 of 37
Turns seem to start ok, but then you stop tipping. I suggest you try a few times continue tipping more AND flex to absorb (with whatever you have to if the ankle won't budge) and remove pressure from the skis at the end of the turn to get used to continuing the turn farther at a bigger angle (at least have your skis continue turning at a bigger angle). After you get a feel for that, you can work on reducing the amount of end of turn absorpton while maintaining the carve.
post #24 of 37
Thread Starter 
I can see that I'm hanging on to the turns too long. As a result, my cm isn't moving in the needed direction until the turn is completed, then I'm having to rotate to start my next turn. It isn't very efficient and doesn't flow well. I'll have to put in a lot of mileage to change this, but I really want to get it right! Thanks to all of your for your great feedback and suggestions for improvement!
post #25 of 37
Now we are talking!
But I think you aren't seeing the whole picture yet.

You can ski straight across the slope, now without any whatsoever rotation just tip your knees down the slope. Your skis will turn and the more you tip your knees the harder you will turn. If you turn hard you will also need to put your hip into the turn. This gives that you can after some practicing throw your knees, hips and body downwards the slope with your hips feeling like they are pointing outwards the turn leading with your inside shoulder.

You should start by doing it gentler thou. However on gentle slopes I think radically tilted knees and even weight distribution between the skis works best for getting the hang of it.

Look at this picture series where I do some ugly a-framing by not tilting the inner knee enough.
There is no rotation involved, just arcing.
The second picture is what I'm talking about. I'm leaning downwards.
You can lean down the slope, no problem, just as long as the skis are gripping. The centripetal forces will keep you from falling over.

You can hang on to your turns as long as you want. You can even ski uphill and then tilt yourself the other way to turn down again if you have speed, sidecut radius and sharp edges enough.
post #26 of 37
Thread Starter 
I only could view one set of picutres. Those are nice turns Carl R, and I definatly see a lot of A-Framing. An examiner would throw me off of the hill if I did that in an exam. I wish I could see the other picutre that you mention. I agree that putting your hip into the turn helps, but I believe it should start at the feet and work it's way up to the hip not at the knees.

I think you do have some very good suggestions and I'm going to work with many of them to try to make some corrections to my skiing and I want you to know that I really appreciate your help on this.


post #27 of 37
The "second" picture I'm talking about is the second frame in that montage.
It's only one picture. (And I'm swedish so my english is far from perfect. )

Agree on the hips and knees, but you may come to a point where you can trust the ski's so much that you just let them "catch you" instead of building up the turn from the soles. Then you can enter the turn pretty much any way you want to.
It's not what you would teach obviously, but for a skier like where you are today, I think it's not that far away.

I'm very much looking forward to more videos.
post #28 of 37
Thread Starter 
Thanks Carl R! I'll work on it and hopefully post another video within a few weeks! I just took my Level III written exam and passed with flying colors. . I know from one of the test questions that I'll have to repeat doing these turns the right way at least 300 times before they will be able to be considered a learned skill, so I've got my work cut-out!

Thanks again for all of your help! I'll keep you posted!

post #29 of 37
Originally Posted by Snowmiser View Post
I agree that putting your hip into the turn helps, but I believe it should start at the feet and work it's way up to the hip not at the knees.
post #30 of 37
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
You can lean down the slope, no problem, just as long as the skis are gripping. The centripetal forces will keep you from falling over.
We call that an upside down position. Nice photos carl, how did you make the photosequenze?
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