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My short radius turns

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Well there are a few things wrong with my short radius turns. I know I have a stance which is very wide, and when I make short radius turns, they don't work as well because one of my skis is right underneath my body. I try to keep a closer stance, but after a few turns I can't help but move back to the ultra-wide stance.

The other thing is keeping my weight forward. I know how important this is, but when I do short radius turns, I don't feel my shin against my boot like I should. I try to get my shin against my boot but I always end up getting my butt way down, so even if I can get my shin against my boot, I'm still in the backseat.

One last thing is that if there's even a small bit of ice, my edges can't hold and I end up skidding and gaining speed like crazy. I haven't had my skis sharpened in a while, do you think that would solve the problem? Also, I've heard that slalom skis perform well on ice. Will this help further?

Thanks in advance :-)
post #2 of 14
I'm no expert but I do know that if you pull your inside foot back it helps keep you balanced. This takes a little effort. You have to make an effort to pull it back. This stops the backseat tendency and helps with the balance.

Making an effort to keep the stance narrow also will help you with balance as well.
post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLBfreek35 View Post
The other thing is keeping my weight forward. I know how important this is, but when I do short radius turns, I don't feel my shin against my boot like I should. I try to get my shin against my boot but I always end up getting my butt way down, so even if I can get my shin against my boot, I'm still in the backseat.

Without seeing a pic or video, I can't tell for sure... but I would think this is because you're letting your hips drop back and down, which pushes you into the backseat and alters your CG. Try consciously pushing your hips forward (almost pelvic-thrust-like). Not too far, but just enough to feel a slight pinch in your lower back. This will help align you properly over your skis, and will help with the shin pressure issue, as well as help keep you out of the backseat.
post #4 of 14
Hard to tell whats wrong without videos or even a photo. However, the main reason you end up skidding and in the back seat is technique. Its quite obvious actually, your wide two footed stance puts too much weight on the inside ski and that causes your outside ski to slip and your weight to be shifted even more to the inside leg which in turn shifts your weight even further back. There are some really good books on this topic.

Also, you need to get your edges tuned if you want edgehold on ice and very hard snow. It makes a huge difference. Racers spend hours and hours on tuning their skis each week. WC racers have people doing nothing else. Getting a pair of SL skis that are tuned well (base 0.5deg and side 87deg) will deffinetly get you a better edge hold but so will any properly tuned race ski. The difference is in the turn radius and the stiffness. My hunch is that you are skidding your short radius turns so there should be no difference between a r=12m or a r=16m ski. Actually, the greater the turn radius the easier they are to skid in short turns since they will not be struggling to get you running along the edges in a arcing manner. And they will not surprice you with a sudden jabb when you accidentally make the perfect move and your balance is off and you end up braking your neck. Trade off for solid edge hold is unforgiveness.
post #5 of 14
MLBfreak35,

Sharp skis will help as TDK6 described. It sounds like your skis are under you too much and that causes a low edge angle to the snow. After you get your skis sharpened and waxed (so they preform properly), work on keeping your body stable and then as you turn, extend your legs as you turn. This will cause your skis to turn out and away from the body (gaining edge angle and better hold) and as you turn them back under the body, flex or bend your legs so they can pass under you. From there, the legs extend to the other side as you turn repeating the process.

From your description of what is happeneing, you are getting squatty and not making the extension to get the skis away from you.

A good excersise on easy terrain is to skate down the hill, after a few skating moves, you will be going fast enough that skating will not be gaining any speed. From there, take your skating movements and start turning your skis. Seep the same tempo and rythm as the skating, but use that type of extension and bending in your turns. Practice on flatter terrain before going to anything steeper. On steeper terrain, you will have to shape the turn much more as the skis turn back under your body for speed control.

Hope this helps.

RW
post #6 of 14
MLBfreek35, sounds like some balance issues, lateral with the wide feet, and fore and aft with the no tongue pressure. You have a lot of company though, so don't feel like the lone ranger. We're all working on this at one level or another.

One way to tackle your dynamic balance over your skis is to use tasks that force the issue and bring it up front and center. So try some one ski turns on easy terrain, lifting the inside ski immediately after edge change, keeping it lifted through the entire turn. Switch to the opposite ski right after edge change again, and so on and so forth. Pay special attention to how the lifted ski is riding above the snow. You want it level to maybe the tip being a little lower than the tail through the turn.

When this becomes easy try rotating the lifted ski's tip out over the outside ski tip through the turn. Carefull here, as catching the lifted tip in the snow on the other side of the ride ski can be a quick hard way to go down. These modified one ski turns will require even more progressive balancing movements through the turn, as well as smooth steering of the ride ski throughout the turn.

From here you might want to try one ski turns in both directions on the same ski. This will dial up the balance factor another notch. Remember that all your movements still need to happen in all these turns. We still need to tip the skis, as well as utilizing good effective extension and flexion and steering. Keeping these movements happening on the side with the lifted ski will help smooth out the movements on both sides of the body and make the ski in the snow work more effectively. Work this in nice short radius turns and slowly increase the pitch as you become more effective at it.

These will all give immediate feedback and you will feel right away if something is not working quite right. Just remember to make a mental note of how you are moving, and how the ski is working in the snow when things feel right, so you can get to where you can duplicate these effective movement patterns in your regular short radius turns. Practice often.
post #7 of 14
If you have been skiing for a while and are not a new beginner I would say there is a very good possiblity that you have some boot fit issues. Boots too large or pronation.

Do you have pain anywhere on your feet or ankles after you ski?
post #8 of 14

Lego' extension.

What an excellant exercise to create that upper body seperation! You instructors are so smart! :} I'm trying to teach my girlfriend to do cross-overs in rollerblading to emulate that......she has difficulty in not having her feet directly under her body for balance. Any other suggestion? BTW, does Windham have ski demo day on its Horizon? thanks! Vin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron White View Post
MLBfreak35,

Sharp skis will help as TDK6 described. It sounds like your skis are under you too much and that causes a low edge angle to the snow. After you get your skis sharpened and waxed (so they preform properly), work on keeping your body stable and then as you turn, extend your legs as you turn. This will cause your skis to turn out and away from the body (gaining edge angle and better hold) and as you turn them back under the body, flex or bend your legs so they can pass under you. From there, the legs extend to the other side as you turn repeating the process.

From your description of what is happeneing, you are getting squatty and not making the extension to get the skis away from you.

A good excersise on easy terrain is to skate down the hill, after a few skating moves, you will be going fast enough that skating will not be gaining any speed. From there, take your skating movements and start turning your skis. Seep the same tempo and rythm as the skating, but use that type of extension and bending in your turns. Practice on flatter terrain before going to anything steeper. On steeper terrain, you will have to shape the turn much more as the skis turn back under your body for speed control.

Hope this helps.

RW
post #9 of 14

the pendulum of weight...

I'd like to take a shot at what your doing with the weight forward issue as its something I'm trying to focus on also. In staying perpendicular to the slope is pretty much a given methodology for somewhat advanced skiing, but it becomes much more specific in da bumps....that is you have to keep the upper body perpendicular the overall slope pitch while letting the skis stay in snow contact through all the bump parts(faces)...front side, top, backside....so in a short distance you have to alter body/ski/boot angle significantly and quickly, sometimes it throws me too far forward trying to maintain the boot/shin contact on the downside of bump and I over compensate and then end up going backseat due to overforward position......it seems to get better with practice, it's been suggested to me to add some sideslip on the downside instead of keeping in the fall line, I just need 12 consecutive months of skiing to master this. :} Correct me if I'm off line here guys. Thx! V


Quote:
Originally Posted by MLBfreek35 View Post
Well there are a few things wrong with my short radius turns. I know I have a stance which is very wide, and when I make short radius turns, they don't work as well because one of my skis is right underneath my body. I try to keep a closer stance, but after a few turns I can't help but move back to the ultra-wide stance.

The other thing is keeping my weight forward. I know how important this is, but when I do short radius turns, I don't feel my shin against my boot like I should. I try to get my shin against my boot but I always end up getting my butt way down, so even if I can get my shin against my boot, I'm still in the backseat.

One last thing is that if there's even a small bit of ice, my edges can't hold and I end up skidding and gaining speed like crazy. I haven't had my skis sharpened in a while, do you think that would solve the problem? Also, I've heard that slalom skis perform well on ice. Will this help further?

Thanks in advance :-)
post #10 of 14
scooby68,

Quote:
she has difficulty in not having her feet directly under her body for balance. Any other suggestion? BTW, does Windham have ski demo day on its Horizon? thanks! Vin
I think you ae asking about when she skis and not rollerblading. My guess she gets her weight back a little. I start by getting her to understand ankle flex. There may be a number or reasons she may not be able to maintain a flexed ankle. One could be her boots not fitting just right, or being too stiff. Another could be a reaction to speed, lack of control, or a steep pitch of the hill. A lesson could be a big help to her and get her on track for better balanced skiing. There are some activities she can also do that demand a balanced stance (best to have an instructor work with her rather than trying to do it yourself). If she gets fustrated with an instructor, it's ok, but her fustration could come out as anger toward you.

Your question about balance in bumps is a really good one. Because the contour of the snow is constantly changing in the bumps, it is impossible to always stay perpendictular to the skis. You need a well balanced stance with shin/tongue contact, but at times it is necessary to allow the skis to "toggle" under the body. As far as learning how to skid or shave the back side of a bump, it will help you shave off unwanted speed as you move down the backside of a bump. Bump skiing requires a large range of bending and streighting the legs at the right time and place. Being able to pivot and change edges cleanly is also a must. There are many drills that are best learned outside of the bumps that are a great help. Once learned and understood, they can be applied in the bumps.

I'm not shure when our next demo day is, we had one a week and a half ago, but I'm shure there will be another soon. Our demo center is open every day if you are looking to try out skis.

Give me a pm when you are going to be at WM. You may like to reserve me for lessons for your gf or for yourself.

RW
post #11 of 14
What kind of ski are you on now? Last year you were in a race program and if I remember correctly, talking about getting SL skis but it sounds like that didn't happen.

If you are trying to force GS skis to make short radius turns ... as the saying goes ... the proper tool for the job ... and a 21m ski just ain't that tool.

Sharp edges on ice? Do Bears Schizz in the woods?

SL skis are my tool of choice for our narrow, crowded and icy trails ... I like my 156 SL's .... but get a file and stone and learn how to use it.

Often a race program will have a rep come in and do a demo. Even if you aren't in the program currently, ask the coach when the rep will be there and if you can sit in for the demo .... sounds like you are from NY and there are a few race supply stores ... it would be worth a trip over there.
post #12 of 14
Your words of wisdom ring loud and clear Ron, I think I like this already! :} I'll PM you and certainly meet you someday soon. :}

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron White View Post
scooby68,



I think you ae asking about when she skis and not rollerblading. My guess she gets her weight back a little. I start by getting her to understand ankle flex. There may be a number or reasons she may not be able to maintain a flexed ankle. One could be her boots not fitting just right, or being too stiff. Another could be a reaction to speed, lack of control, or a steep pitch of the hill. A lesson could be a big help to her and get her on track for better balanced skiing. There are some activities she can also do that demand a balanced stance (best to have an instructor work with her rather than trying to do it yourself). If she gets fustrated with an instructor, it's ok, but her fustration could come out as anger toward you.

Your question about balance in bumps is a really good one. Because the contour of the snow is constantly changing in the bumps, it is impossible to always stay perpendictular to the skis. You need a well balanced stance with shin/tongue contact, but at times it is necessary to allow the skis to "toggle" under the body. As far as learning how to skid or shave the back side of a bump, it will help you shave off unwanted speed as you move down the backside of a bump. Bump skiing requires a large range of bending and streighting the legs at the right time and place. Being able to pivot and change edges cleanly is also a must. There are many drills that are best learned outside of the bumps that are a great help. Once learned and understood, they can be applied in the bumps.

I'm not shure when our next demo day is, we had one a week and a half ago, but I'm shure there will be another soon. Our demo center is open every day if you are looking to try out skis.

Give me a pm when you are going to be at WM. You may like to reserve me for lessons for your gf or for yourself.

RW
post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
WOW! I left this post for a couple days and I got some of the best responses I've ever gotten. Thanks so much for the effort into making me a better skiier. I really, really appreciate it. I just know it's gonna help, a lot. I can't wait to get on the snow to try out your suggestions. I'll try to get a video of myself some time in the near future and then I'll demand more help
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Oh, and Yuki: How the heck did you remember that stuff?:

I barely remembered it myself... You're right: I never ended up getting those SL skis, but they're still in my mind, maybe next season. I'm not on GS skis either though. I'm actually not on race skis at all. This is what I'm skiing, in 167:

http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/mercha...e=blizz7200c07

Grr... Blizzard's site not working... Anyways, I know I'm not trying to force a 20m ski into 12m turns.

So, now that you know what I'm skiing on, do you think SL devoted skis would help me significantly with short radius?
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