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New Ski Prep?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hey guys I just picked up my Rossignol Radical S WC 165s today, and I was wondering how I should prep them. They are still in plastic covering. I was wondering how I could find out what the angles set on the skis are, and I guess I should just use a straight edge to see if the bases are flat. Also, I believe that they have base strucutre built in from the factory, so should I just wax them several times to get a good base of wax built up for the season?

Thanks!
post #2 of 19
Check for flatness, detune the tips and tails, hotwax, and go! Try to get your skis hotwaxed every 4-5 days of skiing. Get a full tune (grind, structure, sharpen, hotwax) every couple of weeks throughout the season. Cheers!
post #3 of 19
Fixed it for you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
Check for flatness, Check to make sure the edges are razor sharp, do not detune the tips and tails, hotwax, and go! T
post #4 of 19
First off, nice choice in skis! I am prepping a pair of those myself.

Here's what I do for every new pair of skis.

1. Check for flatness - if the bases are flat, you're good to go beacuse the factory structure on a rossi is quite nice.

2. Base bevel - I am running these at a 0.5 degree base so I took a fine file (swix 2nd cut and sharpened the base edge, then a stone progression to polish.

3. Pull Sidewalls - I use a Skiman tool with a square blade and I cut away the plastic sidewall material above the edge using light pressure - this process produces a coil of sidewall material coming off the ski.

4. Side bevel - I run these skis at 3 degrees on the side and use an SVST guide with a swix 2nd cut file to sharpen the edge, then a stone progression to polish.

5. Hot scrape twice with Swix CH10 or Base Prep to clean out all of the impurities in the base. I then brush the ski with my steel bristled brush from Mr. Joe's to clean out the structure.

6. Wax the heck out of the skis. I use base prep for a couple of coats, waiting overnight to scrape and brush the skis (I brush with a brass / nylon combo and finish with a horsehair)

7. Run 'em in. After a few coats of base prep, I'll put CH7 on 'em and brush them out before a day on the slopes. I'll take 5 or 6 runs on 'em and move on to the GS skis that were prepped the same way.

8. Wax again and have fun skiing. Wax after every outing or every-other for best results. Only polish the side edge unless you hit something and you'll have very fast skis.

Hope this helped. If anyone has comments on how to improve this process, I'd love to hear it.

Another trusted method, employed by many, is to send the skis to Edgewise and pay $100 or so and get perfect skis back.

Cheers!
post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Ok thank you very much that seems like a great guide. One question, do you know what the stock side and base bevels come on the skis. I know that the side bevels aren't that big of a deal to change, but I've been told that you can't change the base bevel without getting them stone ground.
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holimonter View Post
First off, nice choice in skis! I am prepping a pair of those myself.

Here's what I do for every new pair of skis.

1. Check for flatness - if the bases are flat, you're good to go beacuse the factory structure on a rossi is quite nice.

2. Base bevel - I am running these at a 0.5 degree base so I took a fine file (swix 2nd cut and sharpened the base edge, then a stone progression to polish.

3. Pull Sidewalls - I use a Skiman tool with a square blade and I cut away the plastic sidewall material above the edge using light pressure - this process produces a coil of sidewall material coming off the ski.

4. Side bevel - I run these skis at 3 degrees on the side and use an SVST guide with a swix 2nd cut file to sharpen the edge, then a stone progression to polish.

5. Hot scrape twice with Swix CH10 or Base Prep to clean out all of the impurities in the base. I then brush the ski with my steel bristled brush from Mr. Joe's to clean out the structure.

6. Wax the heck out of the skis. I use base prep for a couple of coats, waiting overnight to scrape and brush the skis (I brush with a brass / nylon combo and finish with a horsehair)

7. Run 'em in. After a few coats of base prep, I'll put CH7 on 'em and brush them out before a day on the slopes. I'll take 5 or 6 runs on 'em and move on to the GS skis that were prepped the same way.

8. Wax again and have fun skiing. Wax after every outing or every-other for best results. Only polish the side edge unless you hit something and you'll have very fast skis.

Hope this helped. If anyone has comments on how to improve this process, I'd love to hear it.

Another trusted method, employed by many, is to send the skis to Edgewise and pay $100 or so and get perfect skis back.

Cheers!
This guy asks a BASIC question about waxing his new skis and you tell him to "dork-out" and treat his skis as if he was Herman Meyer with a race tune team following him around. You're using a hammer to place a thumbtack if you ask me. And yes, detuning your edges a bit in the tip (and especially in the tail) is a good idea... even for Herman Meyer!
post #7 of 19
@ Peaks94,

I am not sure what the stock bevels were, sorry. You are correct that you can't decrease the base bevel without a grind. When I ran my 0.5 degree on the base, it did take material off the edge so I assume that my skis were flat from the factory.
post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 
Ya I talked to one of the tech guys at Rossi and they told me that the World Cup skis come without bevels or structure. So is the structure created by a brass brush sufficient for slalom?

And on a totally unrelated issue, if I have a ski running a 87 degree side bevel, can I just run by 88 degree bevel and get an 88 degree bevel?
post #9 of 19
I can think of absolutely no reason to change from 87 to 88 degrees; you would gain nothing and you would lose some edge material.
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Ok, cool. Now for the new skis, do I have to set the edge bevels first, or can I prep the bases first and then set the edge bevels? Thanks guys
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
This guy asks a BASIC question about waxing his new skis and you tell him to "dork-out" and treat his skis as if he was Herman Meyer with a race tune team following him around. You're using a hammer to place a thumbtack if you ask me. And yes, detuning your edges a bit in the tip (and especially in the tail) is a good idea... even for Herman Meyer!
This is not a "Dork-out" answer, This IS how you take care of A pr of WC type race skis. It is not as simple if you want them to last and preform as designed.:
post #12 of 19
A couple of things for DCNB. First, there is really no need to detune tips and tails until you ski the ski and find out how the present tune ski skis. Second, if you get a grind every few weeks, you'll have little ski to tune at the end of the season, besides re-grinding that often just means you have to season (i.e. prep/hot wax to clean the bases after each grind) the ski each time and freshly ground ski must be totally re-tuned each time. And, fwiw, Herman Meyer is no one I know on the Austrian team, I think his teammates know him as Hermann Maier.
post #13 of 19
rmmaster hit it right on regarding those quick service grinds. Get a good quality file and guide and do your edges and wax.

One place had an outdoor "on the ski deck" special and for something like $5 they would do a "sharpen and hot wax" while you had lunch. A few times I watched the same guy drop his skis off while he ordered his burger on Saturday and Sunday ..... watching the sparks flying sent chills up my spine ... grinding away perfectly good base material is not what it's about.
post #14 of 19
Ghost,

You definately have to detune the tips and tails every time you sharpen or file your edges. If you do not you can get some really squirrelly skis and put yourself or someone else in a dangerous situation.

Just take an old stone or file and dull the tips and tails from the point the tip/tails start to curve up off a flat base, or where the ski looses contact with the snow.
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame View Post
Ghost,

You definately have to detune the tips and tails every time you sharpen or file your edges. If you do not you can get some really squirrelly skis and put yourself or someone else in a dangerous situation.

Just take an old stone or file and dull the tips and tails from the point the tip/tails start to curve up off a flat base, or where the ski looses contact with the snow.

Sorry Flame, but you are wrong here. Detuning is old-school. Modern, shaped skis are designed for early edge engagement at the tip and you typically do not need to detune them. This is particularly true of a race ski where you would generally want quick edge engagement. You certainly *can* detune a shaped ski and plenty of people do it, but it is not an automatic. rmmaster was absolutely correct--never detune until you have actually ridden the ski because you will likely be giving up some performance to do so. You *might* want to detune a ski to affect the speed at which the edges engage--some people want a more delayed or less "grabby" hookup. Squirelly skis are better fixed by buying a different ski than by detuning.
post #16 of 19
The remedy for "hooky" feeling skis is either to increase the base edge bevels at the tip or better yet, have your boot soles canted since it's usually an alignment issue that causes them to feel "hooky". Modern skis should be sharp from contact point to contact point unless you want them to skid. I don't personally know anyone who sharpens their skis forward or aft of the contact points and bevel guides are not designed to do this.
post #17 of 19
The argument about detuning the tips and tails has to do more with the ability level of the skier and the conditions the ski will be skied in. If the skier carves turns on hardpack or ice, detuning will take a ski with excellent edge control and turn it into one which you have much less confidence in. If the ski will be skied in soft snow or crud, detuning maybe makes some sense. However, I've been setting edges from contact point to contact point for over 15 years and have never noted grippiness or the ski not wanting to release from one turn to the next. In their description of their services the folks from "race place" say DO NOT DETUNE. Works for me, my wife and my ex racer daughters. A friend works in a local shop and they detune because most folks they sell to skid their turns and would feel a ski with good edge hold is unpredictable. A ski which will be used for racing or carving should not be detuned.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairybones View Post
... A friend works in a local shop and they detune because most folks they sell to skid their turns and would feel a ski with good edge hold is unpredictable. A ski which will be used for racing or carving should not be detuned.
I agree. A lot of shops still detune as a matter of practice because the beleive (probably correctly) that most of their customers on modern skis still skid their turns the old fashioned way. It's a shame because it takes much of the performance away from those new skis that someone just spent mucho $'s on for little good purpose. At least the shops should check with their customers first.

If a person wants to avoid this tragedy, the best assurance is to take their skis to a shop that tunes a lot of race skis. They survive on their reputation for tuning skis properly.

It might help to leave a note taped to the ski to remind the tech of how you want your skis tuned. But many techs at regular ski shops tune all skis the same regardless.

Mogul skiers and extreme skiers may have specific reason to detune. In powder it makes little difference what shape a skis edges are in (except that you may still need to get to the powder). For everyday skiing on hard snow it makes a world of difference.

When I need to take my skis to a shop, the Race Place in Bend, Oregon is one of two shops in the PNW that I take my skis to although I suspect that that there are a few other shops that can do the job properly.
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holimonter View Post
3. Pull Sidewalls - I use a Skiman tool with a square blade and I cut away the plastic sidewall material above the edge using light pressure - this process produces a coil of sidewall material coming off the ski.
A panzer file in a 7 deg dedicated edge guide is also an option here. I use the skiman tool with a round blade, but the panzer file is helpful on the tips and tails.
This may sound a little over the top, but it is necessary to set the edge angle on vertical sidewall skis. I suppoose that if you were really skilled, you could expose the file enough to contact only the edge and not the sidewall, but on all of the diamond stones that I've used, the border would contact the sidewall preventing the diamond stone from reaching the edge.
If this sounds intimidating, there are specialty tuning shops such as Edgewise in Stowe that can handle this. If you want to set the side edge angle accurately, this is the way to go.
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