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Purchased Fischer Rebound Crown 169cm. How to put binding on?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Any tips? Pins chord center put pins about 18mm behind the center of a "mounting point area" on the ski. I have some Rottafella "Super Telemark" three pin bindings that I want to put on these skis. What part of the binding should be lined up with the "mounting point area" markings? I'm planning on mounting these myself. Any tips are appreciated.
post #2 of 29
Telerod,
Here's some binding links I had collected and haven't verified in a while. When I mounted my Atomic Chugach's, similar to the (Rebound's wider brother), with Riva Z Comps, I used the 'optimal' position for free-heel position and they've been fine for me.

Dr. Telemark's @
Telemarktips.com telemark binding mounting & optimal position forfree-heel.
Telemarkski.com telemark ski mounting 101.
Telemarkbindings.com telemark binding comparisons relative to "activeness", use and other insights.
K2 Tech PDF manual download & telemark insert info(PDF download).
Multiple templates for telemark bindings: K2 inserts, Bomber Bishop, Hammer Head, 7tm, & Linken courtesy of ifeelhappy.com.
Additional telemark templates for G3, Riva2......posted on cascadeclimbers.com

HTH

Terry
post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks Terry!

All the links suggest pins chord center with one mentioning alternative of using balance point. Pins chord center would have my heel hanging of the back of the raised part of the ski. There are markings for mounting point. The mounting point area is a range of about 28mm. Pins chord center is about 2mm behind the farthest back of these marks. The balance point of the ski is in the mounting area range, about 6mm forward of chord center.

These skis are intended for use with NNN BC bindings, so I don't know how the marking relate to 3pin position. If I put the pins at the farthest forward mark, my heel doesn't overhang the raised part but sits close to the end.

I want to mount significantly forward of pins chord center or pins on balance point, but I don't know why. This ski is very short for me and my boots are large. Should these factors be taken into account? I guess I feel like the boot/binding should be a little more centered on the part of the ski that appears to be designed to support the boot/binding.?

These skis have a lot of camber. I know because I have two sizes too small for me that the camber will not support my weight the way it is supposed to do, but maybe because they have patterned bases, they still might be OK for kick and glide? If I put the bindings an inch ahead pins chord center, how will this effect the diagonal striding. I started out telemarking on skinny cambered skis but never used them successfully for kick and glide. I only tried once and I didn't wax properly. In other words, I'm a nordic novice.

I'm planning on using my old Asolo Snowfield II boots. There is some cracking of the soles behind the pin holes. but they should be OK. Very comfortable. I'll probably get some Karhu Converts or similar boots eventually to use with these.
post #4 of 29
Hey Rod,
I'll have to revisit this later tonight or this week, But I do recall balancing my skis on a straight edge as a reference and I believe placing the ball of the foot at center. Pressuring the grip zone at it's center makes sense, but I could be out in left field as I have to rethink this ever other year or so when I mount touring or tele skis. I'll measure mine and let you know.
post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 
The raised area I referred to is like a built in riser on top of the ski adding only 4mm of height. The grip zone extends 8 inches beyond the front of the raised area and the back of grip zone ends at the back of the riser.

I like ball of foot over center of running surface for telemark, but these will be more for touring than turning. I'm sure I will take them on piste though. I'm excited to use light-weight gear again!
post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
BOF/CRS puts the pins only 4mm ahead of the forwardmost part of designated "mounting point area". I think I'll mount pins at the forwardmost mark, 32mm in front of chord center, 4mm behind BOF/CRS or maybe 5mm further back from there. I've probably overthunk this whole thing. Anyway, the links provided will be very helpful for the rest of the process once I've zeroed in on the location. Thanks again.
post #7 of 29
On thing to keep in mind that it is not the end of the world if you find that you don't like the positioning and need to plug and redrill.:

I was amazed at how well my lightweight rig works for making turns in a variety of conditions and great for touring. Enjoy!
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
BOF/CRS puts the pins only 4mm ahead of the forwardmost part of designated "mounting point area". I think I'll mount pins at the forwardmost mark, 32mm in front of chord center, 4mm behind BOF/CRS or maybe 5mm further back from there. I've probably overthunk this whole thing. Anyway, the links provided will be very helpful for the rest of the process once I've zeroed in on the location. Thanks again.
How much fishscale is there behind the back edge of the "riser"?
post #9 of 29
Just back from a quick 2k on my Rossi BC Touring rig. I kept wondering why would you want to use 3-pins for touring when the free pivot of the NNN is much nicer, or a cable?

Anyway here's a few shots of my BC NNN rig & rugged touring rig. Both BOF are very close to center of running surface. The BC NNN rig actual balances right at the pins. The Atomics look like they are too far back on the mounting area, but that may due to allowing for a front cable lever? Makes me wonder what it would be like to cheat it forward a couple cm's????







post #10 of 29
Damn I want to start tely...

Sweet diamond stone holder too, I'll have to remember that.
post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
How much fishscale is there behind the back edge of the "riser"?
None. The fishscale ends about 5mm in front of the end of the riser.
post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
...I kept wondering why would you want to use 3-pins for touring when the free pivot of the NNN is much nicer, or a cable?
Because I have 3pin boots and 3pin bindings. Also I live inside the DC beltway. My opportunities to tour are limited. I also like to, well these are Fischer S'Bounds, oriented towards touring for turns. They are cambered and skinny, so better suited to rolling terrain vs. lift skiing, but I think I'd rather have a little better downhill performance than free pivot and better striding. But I don't know really how to use these skis.

I've invested less than $100 dollars on the skis. I don't know how much I will use them and am hesitant to buy new boots and bindings for them. I will probably just fart around in urban parks and the local lift served trails with possible forays on fire roads adjacent to local ski areas or in the Catoctin Mountains outside of Frederick Md., weather permitting.

Actually a cable binding would work with the boots I already have, and shouldn't cost too much. Would a cable binding improve the downhill performance as well as the touring? The binding on your Atomics look really centered on the riser compared to what I'm looking at. My skis were designed for someone much smaller than me, so that's probably why my size twelves are hanging off the back.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
None. The fishscale ends about 5mm in front of the end of the riser.
I would take that as a hard datum line. In other words, imo the heel must not come down behind the end of the fishscales.

On Karhus like the Pioneers and Orion/Ursas the fishscales are almost all over so backsliding on climbs by having heels too far down and back is not really a concern.

IIRC on Atomics like the ones in Alpinord's pic the scales end right at the end of the riser, so his heel is actually an inch or more in front of the fishscale end. And he's got a bit of heel lift in there.
post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks, 'tuna. I've read the Karhus have better grip. My Fischers were cheap and I bought them despite the fact that they are not the right size for me and funky (skinny, cambered, etc.). Im determined to have fun on them. I will heed your advise and mount the bindings so the heel doesn't extend beyond the pattern. Currently leaning towards putting the pins over the foremost mark which will leave a little fishscale behind the heel. I'll probably be mulling over this for a few more days, so if anyone else has some ideas, insight, etc. please chime in.
post #15 of 29
That's cool.

I think Alpinord is a bit lucky to live in good snow without daily melt and freeze and postholing hikers in between.

He's got a point about cables for turnability, though. Would you consider something ultralight like a Rotte 412? From what I read you seem devoted to CR plates that aren't the lightest thing in the world.
post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 
CR? Meaning release plates? I would probably put them on these but there is not enough room on the riser.

I'm considering cables now after what you and Terry are telling me. He actually only said they would tour better, but I've read elsewhere that they enhance the turning too. Adding cables to the Voilés on my downhill skis didn't make a noticeable improvement in performance but my downhill boots are very stiff, thick sturdy sole. I think a cable would enhance the performance of the leather boots I'm planning on using with these skis.
post #17 of 29
Recheck the telebinding activeness flow chart:

Quote:
Telemarkbindings.com telemark binding comparisons relative to "activeness", use and other insights.
I wouldn't say the typical cable tours better than a three pin, but mine are easier for touring than others. A true tele binding with a free pivot is a great combo if you are after turns as well. But there's a weight penalty. After retreading my leathers three times due to toe cracking at the pin holes, I swore I'd never use them again. Plus the action and bending on the duckbill isn't as smooth after using NNN bindings. The cable does help snap the ski and help with the turns. The claim for some BC NNN rigs is you can turn, but my Rossi boots are too weak in the ankles for good turns, but a beefier boot on BC NNN bindings could work.

For nomenclature's sake, I think of 'fishscales' as the older patterned bases where the 'scales' protruded from the bases, not the patterned bases which is cut into the bases......

When I got (BCWorld thread) my Atomic Chugach's, their specs (including their turning crown pattern) matched their Fischer counterparts (Boundless), but were cheaper. A few others in the line did as well (Rainers=Rebounds). making me think they were from the same 'mold' or factory. The pattern ends just below the rear of the mounting area. The rossis have a patterned grip zone equidistant from the BOF. I'm starting to recall some slip out in some steeper and forward positions, making me further wonder about cheating the bindings forward a skootch.

BTW, we do have highly variable snow conditions and a 30° temp swing. Yesterday I was skiing in the teens at T-ride and today the snow was wet in the low 30's and raining in town. :

Telerod, I've got a pair of Red Hot Chilis lonely and in a box if you want some cables for the cost of shipping. Cobras too (Kyle?).
post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
That's a very generous and interesting offer. Let me think about that. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I don't want to take something I won't end up using.

My boots didn't crack at the pin holes, they are cracked behind the holes. The cracks don't look too bad right now, I think I can still use them with pins, but I guess the problem will worsen.

I don't want a heavy binding on these light skinny touring skis. A tele binding that converts from touring to downhill mode would be overkill for these skis and their intended use.

OK, I guess I thought enough, I'll take the Chilis. Thanks!
post #19 of 29
I'll get them out today. You will take them for outings on occasions, won't you? I want them to go to a happy home.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
Telerod, I've got a pair of Red Hot Chilis lonely and in a box if you want some cables for the cost of shipping. Cobras too (Kyle?).
Almost missed this one. What exactly are the cobras? I'm completely foreign to tele right now. No more PMs Terry?
post #21 of 29
Alpinord by switchable touring, are you referring to the new stainless steel Voile (Switchback, I think?)
post #22 of 29
The Voilés or the BD OS1's, Karhu (now Garmont) 7TM Tour, G3 Targa Ascents, etc, among others and some up and comers....then there's the NTN system and a new system by BD next year, supposed to be the silver bullet....

Rottafella Cobra R8 (black version, like these) a performance tele binding in it's day (and still fine IMO).
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
I'll get them out today. You will take them for outings on occasions, won't you? I want them to go to a happy home.
That's a good question. I have bought skis, ski boots and bindings that I never used.

I promise I will use them at least a couple of days this season, more if we get snow locally. I've been a ten day a year skier lately and I have a lot of different sliding toys, so I can't say they will get a lot of use.

I'll probably take a least a short ski after work any day there is snow in the 'hood, but we usually don't get much. I wish I had just mounted them up and went last week when we got about 4 inches, but I wasn't ready. 4 inches would be enough to ski on grassy areas, right?
post #24 of 29
One of our local club groomers will go skiing if there's frost (w/rock skis).

It depends on the density of the snow and what's underneath. If no rocks and it's just frozen or slippery grass....what the hey. Have fun and don't worry about some minor battle scars on the bases. I was ready to go with six inches here but with irregular ground, I decided not to and usually at 9" or so to a foot (which have now) is a good safe minimum for avoiding problems.

The chilis are on the way. They were bored and anything will be better for 'em than sitting in a box. Regarding mounting, for the next time if there's some snow and you're jonesin' to go, mount them up and go for it. You really can mount skis more than once. So don't be too afraid of drill more holes (other than for aesthetics). Epoxy, plugs, glue, etc will fix the small holes and I believe a good rule of thumb is to try and be a minimum of 1 cm away from previous holes, but sometimes you can't and it's no biggie, especially with touring gear.

Anymore, you need to get on or in the snow anyway, where or when you can....that's why I my 'quiver' is highly versatile.
post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 
Right on. PM me on the shipping charges. One of the links said to put epoxy in the screw holes which makes sense to me because I pull bindings out all the time (I'm large and have balance issues). Is it OK to epoxy the screws in? Sorry if that's a dumb question. I'll try to figure out the rest out with the info you've provided. Thanks again.
post #26 of 29
I've used epoxy, Gorilla glue and carpenters glue when mounting. If you used epoxy and you need to remove them, use a heat gun to help with the removal. The infamous mister Dawson @ Wildsnow.com, has tons of mounting articles that will help with some other tricks and tips. Here's one for Naxo and one for Fritschis.
post #27 of 29
Thread Starter 

A belated thank you to Alpinord for the bindings and both you and cantunamunch for helping me decide on the mount position. The project stalled when I realized I didn't have the recommended size drill bit, nor could I find it at Home Depot. I had punched the places where I wanted to drill. Then a year passed.

 

I took them to Blue Knob with me this winter because there was a very experienced mechanic who is also a nordic skier who I had met and skied with during a Telemark clinic there. Unfortunately he no longer worked there, but the young man working there did a good job. He used a jig and mentioned that my pilot holes lined up perfect, which was nice to hear.

 

I skied them a few runs that day and it was very difficult. My first nordic downhill set-up was backcountry gear, and over the course of a season or two I progressed to the point where I could ski pretty well downhill on backcountry gear, but sadly my skills have regressed. 

 

I used them a couple more times. One morning in the neighborhood before work and once at Whitetail. They don't have nordic trails at Whitetail, but I skied up the longest trail, Sidewinder, on the left side of the mountain, hiked/skied up, over, across and down the Far Side. My feet hurt really bad after that. I'm going to get some new boots. There is no way I will put my feet back into that pair. Ouch.

 

 

Thanks again for your help.


Edited by telerod15 - 5/25/2009 at 08:56 pm GMT
post #28 of 29

You're welcome T-rod. I was wondering what you ended up doing with those Red Hot Chilis.

 

Yeah, I think of the stuff I used to ski on tele gear and now not spending enough time to be on them, there appears to be an over all regression. Maybe next season I can re-focus on tele skiing, but trying to keep up with my kid on alpine gear has been very fun and rewarding. We just scored my sister's T-1s for him and hopefully, I can get him more interested as well....

post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 

Haha. Every time I've upgraded skis, boots or bindings, my performance improved allowing my skills to devolve. If I had a son to chase and/or lived in the mountains, I could see locking the heels down. It's the logical next step, but I'll die before that happens. :D

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