- 8,408 Posts. Joined 3/2004
- Location: Maryland
- Select All Posts By This User
Purchased Fischer Rebound Crown 169cm. How to put binding on?
Here's some binding links I had collected and haven't verified in a while. When I mounted my Atomic Chugach's, similar to the (Rebound's wider brother), with Riva Z Comps, I used the 'optimal' position for free-heel position and they've been fine for me.
Dr. Telemark's @ Telemarktips.com telemark binding mounting & optimal position forfree-heel.
Telemarkski.com telemark ski mounting 101.
Telemarkbindings.com telemark binding comparisons relative to "activeness", use and other insights.
K2 Tech PDF manual download & telemark insert info(PDF download).
Multiple templates for telemark bindings: K2 inserts, Bomber Bishop, Hammer Head, 7tm, & Linken courtesy of ifeelhappy.com.
Additional telemark templates for G3, Riva2......posted on cascadeclimbers.com
All the links suggest pins chord center with one mentioning alternative of using balance point. Pins chord center would have my heel hanging of the back of the raised part of the ski. There are markings for mounting point. The mounting point area is a range of about 28mm. Pins chord center is about 2mm behind the farthest back of these marks. The balance point of the ski is in the mounting area range, about 6mm forward of chord center.
These skis are intended for use with NNN BC bindings, so I don't know how the marking relate to 3pin position. If I put the pins at the farthest forward mark, my heel doesn't overhang the raised part but sits close to the end.
I want to mount significantly forward of pins chord center or pins on balance point, but I don't know why. This ski is very short for me and my boots are large. Should these factors be taken into account? I guess I feel like the boot/binding should be a little more centered on the part of the ski that appears to be designed to support the boot/binding.?
These skis have a lot of camber. I know because I have two sizes too small for me that the camber will not support my weight the way it is supposed to do, but maybe because they have patterned bases, they still might be OK for kick and glide? If I put the bindings an inch ahead pins chord center, how will this effect the diagonal striding. I started out telemarking on skinny cambered skis but never used them successfully for kick and glide. I only tried once and I didn't wax properly. In other words, I'm a nordic novice.
I'm planning on using my old Asolo Snowfield II boots. There is some cracking of the soles behind the pin holes. but they should be OK. Very comfortable. I'll probably get some Karhu Converts or similar boots eventually to use with these.
I'll have to revisit this later tonight or this week, But I do recall balancing my skis on a straight edge as a reference and I believe placing the ball of the foot at center. Pressuring the grip zone at it's center makes sense, but I could be out in left field as I have to rethink this ever other year or so when I mount touring or tele skis. I'll measure mine and let you know.
I like ball of foot over center of running surface for telemark, but these will be more for touring than turning. I'm sure I will take them on piste though. I'm excited to use light-weight gear again!
I was amazed at how well my lightweight rig works for making turns in a variety of conditions and great for touring. Enjoy!
BOF/CRS puts the pins only 4mm ahead of the forwardmost part of designated "mounting point area". I think I'll mount pins at the forwardmost mark, 32mm in front of chord center, 4mm behind BOF/CRS or maybe 5mm further back from there. I've probably overthunk this whole thing. Anyway, the links provided will be very helpful for the rest of the process once I've zeroed in on the location. Thanks again.
Anyway here's a few shots of my BC NNN rig & rugged touring rig. Both BOF are very close to center of running surface. The BC NNN rig actual balances right at the pins. The Atomics look like they are too far back on the mounting area, but that may due to allowing for a front cable lever? Makes me wonder what it would be like to cheat it forward a couple cm's????
...I kept wondering why would you want to use 3-pins for touring when the free pivot of the NNN is much nicer, or a cable?
I've invested less than $100 dollars on the skis. I don't know how much I will use them and am hesitant to buy new boots and bindings for them. I will probably just fart around in urban parks and the local lift served trails with possible forays on fire roads adjacent to local ski areas or in the Catoctin Mountains outside of Frederick Md., weather permitting.
Actually a cable binding would work with the boots I already have, and shouldn't cost too much. Would a cable binding improve the downhill performance as well as the touring? The binding on your Atomics look really centered on the riser compared to what I'm looking at. My skis were designed for someone much smaller than me, so that's probably why my size twelves are hanging off the back.
None. The fishscale ends about 5mm in front of the end of the riser.
On Karhus like the Pioneers and Orion/Ursas the fishscales are almost all over so backsliding on climbs by having heels too far down and back is not really a concern.
IIRC on Atomics like the ones in Alpinord's pic the scales end right at the end of the riser, so his heel is actually an inch or more in front of the fishscale end. And he's got a bit of heel lift in there.
I think Alpinord is a bit lucky to live in good snow without daily melt and freeze and postholing hikers in between.
He's got a point about cables for turnability, though. Would you consider something ultralight like a Rotte 412? From what I read you seem devoted to CR plates that aren't the lightest thing in the world.
I'm considering cables now after what you and Terry are telling me. He actually only said they would tour better, but I've read elsewhere that they enhance the turning too. Adding cables to the Voilés on my downhill skis didn't make a noticeable improvement in performance but my downhill boots are very stiff, thick sturdy sole. I think a cable would enhance the performance of the leather boots I'm planning on using with these skis.
|Telemarkbindings.com telemark binding comparisons relative to "activeness", use and other insights.|
For nomenclature's sake, I think of 'fishscales' as the older patterned bases where the 'scales' protruded from the bases, not the patterned bases which is cut into the bases......
When I got (BCWorld thread) my Atomic Chugach's, their specs (including their turning crown pattern) matched their Fischer counterparts (Boundless), but were cheaper. A few others in the line did as well (Rainers=Rebounds). making me think they were from the same 'mold' or factory. The pattern ends just below the rear of the mounting area. The rossis have a patterned grip zone equidistant from the BOF. I'm starting to recall some slip out in some steeper and forward positions, making me further wonder about cheating the bindings forward a skootch.
BTW, we do have highly variable snow conditions and a 30° temp swing. Yesterday I was skiing in the teens at T-ride and today the snow was wet in the low 30's and raining in town. :
Telerod, I've got a pair of Red Hot Chilis lonely and in a box if you want some cables for the cost of shipping. Cobras too (Kyle?).
My boots didn't crack at the pin holes, they are cracked behind the holes. The cracks don't look too bad right now, I think I can still use them with pins, but I guess the problem will worsen.
I don't want a heavy binding on these light skinny touring skis. A tele binding that converts from touring to downhill mode would be overkill for these skis and their intended use.
OK, I guess I thought enough, I'll take the Chilis. Thanks!
Rottafella Cobra R8 (black version, like these) a performance tele binding in it's day (and still fine IMO).
I'll get them out today. You will take them for outings on occasions, won't you? I want them to go to a happy home.
I promise I will use them at least a couple of days this season, more if we get snow locally. I've been a ten day a year skier lately and I have a lot of different sliding toys, so I can't say they will get a lot of use.
I'll probably take a least a short ski after work any day there is snow in the 'hood, but we usually don't get much. I wish I had just mounted them up and went last week when we got about 4 inches, but I wasn't ready. 4 inches would be enough to ski on grassy areas, right?
It depends on the density of the snow and what's underneath. If no rocks and it's just frozen or slippery grass....what the hey. Have fun and don't worry about some minor battle scars on the bases. I was ready to go with six inches here but with irregular ground, I decided not to and usually at 9" or so to a foot (which have now) is a good safe minimum for avoiding problems.
The chilis are on the way. They were bored and anything will be better for 'em than sitting in a box. Regarding mounting, for the next time if there's some snow and you're jonesin' to go, mount them up and go for it. You really can mount skis more than once. So don't be too afraid of drill more holes (other than for aesthetics). Epoxy, plugs, glue, etc will fix the small holes and I believe a good rule of thumb is to try and be a minimum of 1 cm away from previous holes, but sometimes you can't and it's no biggie, especially with touring gear.
Anymore, you need to get on or in the snow anyway, where or when you can....that's why I my 'quiver' is highly versatile.
A belated thank you to Alpinord for the bindings and both you and cantunamunch for helping me decide on the mount position. The project stalled when I realized I didn't have the recommended size drill bit, nor could I find it at Home Depot. I had punched the places where I wanted to drill. Then a year passed.
I took them to Blue Knob with me this winter because there was a very experienced mechanic who is also a nordic skier who I had met and skied with during a Telemark clinic there. Unfortunately he no longer worked there, but the young man working there did a good job. He used a jig and mentioned that my pilot holes lined up perfect, which was nice to hear.
I skied them a few runs that day and it was very difficult. My first nordic downhill set-up was backcountry gear, and over the course of a season or two I progressed to the point where I could ski pretty well downhill on backcountry gear, but sadly my skills have regressed.
I used them a couple more times. One morning in the neighborhood before work and once at Whitetail. They don't have nordic trails at Whitetail, but I skied up the longest trail, Sidewinder, on the left side of the mountain, hiked/skied up, over, across and down the Far Side. My feet hurt really bad after that. I'm going to get some new boots. There is no way I will put my feet back into that pair. Ouch.
Thanks again for your help.
Edited by telerod15 - 5/25/2009 at 08:56 pm GMT
You're welcome T-rod. I was wondering what you ended up doing with those Red Hot Chilis.
Yeah, I think of the stuff I used to ski on tele gear and now not spending enough time to be on them, there appears to be an over all regression. Maybe next season I can re-focus on tele skiing, but trying to keep up with my kid on alpine gear has been very fun and rewarding. We just scored my sister's T-1s for him and hopefully, I can get him more interested as well....
Haha. Every time I've upgraded skis, boots or bindings, my performance improved allowing my skills to devolve. If I had a son to chase and/or lived in the mountains, I could see locking the heels down. It's the logical next step, but I'll die before that happens. :D