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post #31 of 52
I would reccomend grand junction for a good combination of skiing/outdoors/work for nurses. Both my aunt and uncle work as nurses in grand junction. One of them is a former ski patroller. I dont think that pay is necessarily better than anywhere else for nurses, but the cost of living is much lower there.

Grand Junction is a good balance between city convienience and small town quiet.

True, it is a ways to many of the ski areas- but there is powderhorn- only 30-45 minutes away. Its not world class skiing, but its a nice little place.

The whole mormon thing in utah always seemed kinda sketchy to me.
post #32 of 52
I would like to propose an ideal solution: summer in Hawaii and winter in Utah on even years, Colorado on odd years.

If you find my solution in the least bit feasible, I'm up for adoption. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Quote:
Originally posted by AltaSkier:
Utah Liquor laws suck, but they aren't much worse/wierder than those I have encountered in the South or Midwest.
In the editorial that follows, I want to make it clear that I am NOT taking a shot at AltaSkier or any other specific person on this forum or otherwise.

I don't drink much or often, but I do imbibe. I also understand that - like all issues of personal preference - some people place more importance in their ability to have or get a drink than others. Furthermore, as is true in many areas - geographically and/or culturally speaking - there is something to be said for learning how they do it in Rome! When you go to a new ski resort, do automatically know where to ski for maxiumum enjoyment? I think not. Isn't part of the fun found in the exploration of new-found terrain?

Pardon me while I moralize; but is it possible that if your biggest bitch is how difficult it is to get a drink, that maybe, just maybe, you have other problems worth examining? : (Sorry, I couldn't resist - flame-away)

Because I know the ropes in Utah, I have no problem getting a drink if I want one.

Cheryl, my dear, as I said before; wherever you make your new home you're going to find things that strike you as positive, negative and the whole lot of innocuous in-between. But part of the adventure lies in the exploration of new-found terrain. If you do choose Salt Lake over Grand Junction and you hate it . . . you can always move.

Best of luck,

IG
post #33 of 52
My point is that Utah resorts get more snow. And you can get turns there are 4 Utah resorts that opened last week. Alta will open this weekend.
post #34 of 52
IG, first off I don't think you are attacking anybody here. I was just trying to say that Utah and Colorado are really not all that different when it comes to buying liquor/beer. I was really just saying that I wouldn't consider to high on my list if I were picking a place to move to, unless I was a total soak.

I believe that most people who come here from out of state complain about the liquor laws not because they want to get drunk, but because they enjoy the atmosphere that goes along with drinking. Sure we don't need booze to socialize, but since the dawn of man, liquor and socalization have gone hand in hand. We have been brought up to go to the bar/parties to mingle, meet new people, etc. These are not my rules, but society's. When this is changed on us, such as it is in Utah where the rules are slightly different than before, we may feel like fish out of water (bad pun). Now put skiing into the equation, where partying, both sober and not has been why a lot of people even get into the sport and you do have an issue. When I was in college, people would go on week long ski trips with the clubs just to party. Not saying that it's right/moral/whatever, thats just the way it is.

I've lived in Utah for a while now, if I want to get a drink, I have no problem. The rules were odd for me when I first got here, but with an open mind, they are pretty easy to understand. Hey Fox, did you have any troubles getting a beer when you stayed with me last winter?

On a side note, Utah State Liquor and Wine stores have some of the best selection I have ever seen anywhere.

Another side note, many resorts in Utah, such as Snowbird provide a short pamphlet explaining Utah Liquor Laws and how to deal with them as an outsider for their guests. Also, any host/waiter/local will happily explain them to you.
post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by AltaSkier:
IG, first off I don't think you are attacking anybody here. I was just trying to say that Utah and Colorado are really not all that different when it comes to buying liquor/beer. I was really just saying that I wouldn't consider to high on my list if I were picking a place to move to, unless I was a total soak.

I believe that most people who come here from out of state complain about the liquor laws not because they want to get drunk, but because they enjoy the atmosphere that goes along with drinking. Sure we don't need booze to socialize, but since the dawn of man, liquor and socalization have gone hand in hand. We have been brought up to go to the bar/parties to mingle, meet new people, etc. These are not my rules, but society's. When this is changed on us, such as it is in Utah where the rules are slightly different than before, we may feel like fish out of water (bad pun). Now put skiing into the equation, where partying, both sober and not has been why a lot of people even get into the sport and you do have an issue. When I was in college, people would go on week long ski trips with the clubs just to party. Not saying that it's right/moral/whatever, thats just the way it is.

I've lived in Utah for a while now, if I want to get a drink, I have no problem. The rules were odd for me when I first got here, but with an open mind, they are pretty easy to understand. Hey Fox, did you have any troubles getting a beer when you stayed with me last winter?

On a side note, Utah State Liquor and Wine stores have some of the best selection I have ever seen anywhere.

Another side note, many resorts in Utah, such as Snowbird provide a short pamphlet explaining Utah Liquor Laws and how to deal with them as an outsider for their guests. Also, any host/waiter/local will happily explain them to you.
<font color=red>Well said. I agree. Enough said.</font>

Bartender? Make mine a double
post #36 of 52
Cheryl,
:
As one who learned to ski on New England ice, I will bet that within a year, you will be hooked on the West's champagne powder (just a Cruiser, no more!). OK, you have to pay your dues. That requires approximately 1,000 face plants. I remember screaming, "I hate this @^%$# sport!" while buried face-down, my goggles, parka, and neck packed with snow. But all of a sudden one day, like magic, you make a beautiful, floating, gravity-free turn. Then you make another, and another, and you find yourself grinning, laughing, and yelling, "THIS is what it is all about!"

Colorado and Utah are both great. I think if you plan to ski 50 days a year, you are going to find that spending 3-4 hours on the road from Grand Junction every day that you ski is going to get very old, very quickly. It's 40 minutes from my house in the Salt Lake City Avenues to be on the slope in Park City (or 5 other world-class resorts).

Powder Mountain is a largely undiscovered gem. Tremendous intermediate cruising terrain, but the real treasure is - well, powder. Skiing off the backside on an infinite number of possible runs through the trees, and being picked up on the road by Woody's bus. Creaky, slow old lifts, though.

City amenities, music, sports, restaurants, etc. abound here. On the other hand, some people find the, ahem, predominant culture, in Utah to be a bit stifling. If that sort of thing bothers you, you'd be better off in Colorado. Most of us don't pay much attention to it.

By the way, the Salt Lake area has a huge number of fabulous golf courses, all with mountain views, and many within the mountains! And they are dirt cheap, compared with most parts of the country.

I like Grand Junction, too. You can't make a bad choice.

Mtngeo [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #37 of 52
The one thing that's seemingly going unsaid is the Morman population. Don't get me wrong - I have some very good friends who are Mormon, it's not a big deal. However, I've been to SLC with them and it's clear I'm not part of the club. Some friends of mine who aren't Mormon who live in northern Utah had some serious complaints against the culture - their kids couldn't play sports because all organized sports were through the church, they couldn't get daycare, etc. IMHO SLC is a bit too squeaky clean in a fake sort of way. Then again I lived in Ohio for three years and if given the choice I'd move to SLC in a heartbeat. (Don't misunderstand me - it's not that I disliked Ohio, it's that I had an extreme hatred of it.)

Tough choice. I think GJ might be the better of the two even if the good skiing is further away.
post #38 of 52
I was in GJ once. I was driving across country from LA to NY when I stopped there. My car broke down. It was the most expensive repair ever!!! : I am glad I broke down there rather then outside Grand Junction, because there was really nothing around for hours the way I was driving, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth when I think about GJ. My main point, though, is that there was nothing outside of GJ for quite aways. I have never been to SLC, but everything I know from there is nice, and as said before, mountains are CLOSE!!!
post #39 of 52
Cheryl:

I grew up in Colorado, lived in Seattle, spent time in Utah, and now live in Boston (I know, it makes no sense - it is temporary). I have skied nearly all of the Colorado and Utah resorts repeatedly. There is no question that the skiing in either place will far outshine what you are used to. Both CO and UT have great snow, great weather, and great terrain.

Forget about skiing for a moment (I know that is hard to do). You are comparing apples and oranges. SLC and Junction are vastly different places. SLC is a city, whereas Junction is a small town. Both I think can offer a tremendous quality of life. Junction is close to many great things. The Grand Mesa (which is awesome and highly underutilized - tons of alpine lakes) is right outside your door; the Black Canyon is an hour away; the Colorado River flows right through town; Fruita (great mountain biking and hiking) is right there too...the list goes on.... SLC of course has the Wasatch, and those peaks are literally right in your backyard. Tons of good stuff there as well.

Big city vs. small town? When I think of this dilema, I always wonder about things like culture, restaurants, intellectual stimulation...etc. Yes, there are some small towns that have it all (Telluride and Park City were two great options you mentioned), but those towns are cost prohibitive to most. In my opinion, SLC does not have the culture of Boston or New York, or even Denver or Seattle, but it certainly has more than Junction. (On the other hand, from Junction you can drive to one of those "perfect" small towns whenever you like. So if seeing a concert is, for example, a once a year thing for you, it can be available).

How important is topography? Both are high desert locations, but the vertical releif in SLC is prolly better than Junction if you want to see huge snowcapped mountains out your window. However, Junction is beautiful in its own way too (think fantastic eroded mesas). You just have to see it to decide on this point.

Both are going to have great outdoor activities. There is no need to wade in the the "superiority fight." One thing to note that no one else has mentioned is that Junction does have a ski area close by - Powderhorn. It is small, but can be quite good. It is only a few minutes away.

How important is proximity of skiing to you? SLC obviously wins in this department, as several world class resorts are just minutes away. As noted above, Powderhorn is close to Junction, but the other Colorado resorts will require a drive.

Do you love those ski towns you mentioned? Park City is cool, but it is the only one in Utah. If you want a great weekend away in a small ski town, Telluride, Aspen, Crested Butte, Steamboat, Vail/Beaver Creek, Silverton, Durango...etc. are all within striking distance.

People? Well, what can I say? There is obviously a large religous and cultural contingent in SLC that doesn't exist in Junction. I can't and won't judge that in the least, as I have not experienced the influence on someone who lives there. I will say that SLC is the only place where I have been approached on the street corner repeatedly by people spreading the gospel. They were all nice, and it didn't bother me much, but I did find it odd. More importanlty, I have heard stories from friends who live there that there can be a bias against non-Mormans, and that such bias can affect one's chances of upward mobility. I don't know to what extent this is still true or whether it would apply to nursing. However, it strikes me as crucial to find this out sooner rather than leter. That said, I have found the people in both towns to be great.

Drinking laws? Non-issue.

I don't know about hosuing costs, or job prospects, but obviously those are HUGE factors. I would assume Junction is cheaper, but have no info to back that up....

In the end, you have to see both places, and consider all the factors. If you want to confuse the issue, consider other great places. If you want a city, Seattle, Denver, and Vancouver are all awesome. If you want a smaller town, consider Durango, CO, Bend, OR, Glenwood Springs, CO, Truckee, CA, Whistler, BC, Bozeman, MT, Fernie or Nelson, BC, or any other great towns in the west. They are all different, and all have much to offer.

Good luck. It is a wonderful choice to have.

-FS
post #40 of 52
Quote:
The one thing that's seemingly going unsaid is the Morman population. Don't get me wrong - I have some very good friends who are Mormon, it's not a big deal. However, I've been to SLC with them and it's clear I'm not part of the club. Some friends of mine who aren't Mormon who live in northern Utah had some serious complaints against the culture - their kids couldn't play sports because all organized sports were through the church, they couldn't get daycare, etc. IMHO SLC is a bit too squeaky clean in a fake sort of way.
This point about the "Mormon culture" needs a bit of clarification. The SLC area is not like the rest of Utah in terms of the concentration of LDS folks who live there. SLC is roughly 50% LDS, whereas the outlying area are probably more like 90% LDS. Experiences of Non LDS people living in Utah outside the SLC area are likely to be altogether different.

Just for the record, I lived in SLC for 6 years a while back and I am not LDS. The place is tidy, orderly and by far the easiest place for a newcomer to navigate with its street numbering scheme. I loved the access to great skiing and I had no trouble getting all the liquid refreshments that I wanted, once I learned the system.
post #41 of 52
Fredskier,

GREAT POST!!!

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #42 of 52
Cost of Living in a Ski Town is always will be high. That said Park City compaired to Apen or Vail or telluride isa Bargin! Go just a few miles east of Park City to Kamas or Oakly and the cost of houseing really drops. By the way they are Building a New Hospital here in the Park City area. Living 10 to 15 mins outside of town is not a hard cummute, Your biggest problem might be hitting a Deer.
for those that worry about to many Mormons in Salt Lake Citykeep in mind that now Salt Lake City is less then 50% LDS. Truth is that Salt Lake can be a really fun town. Now that I am single I'm finding some really great places to have an adult beverage meet peaple and have a fun evening. I skied PCMR this morning before I had to go to work. There is someing nice about being able to walk from my home to go skiing. I'll be skiing Snowbird in the morning and last night they got over a foot of new snow. If the West is right for you Then You will find a place out here to call Home. be it in Colorado, Utah, Idaho or someplace else. Let the Utah Bears know when you get to Salt Lake City. I'm sure someone would be Happy to show you around thier Mountain.
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by BV:
- their kids couldn't play sports because all organized sports were through the church, they couldn't get daycare, etc.
Sorry to prove your friend wrong but the only Church sport is a basketball leauge for kids that cant make the school teams. As for the daycare issue I am pretty sure that wouldn't happen.

duke
post #44 of 52
I spent the day in Grand Junction today. My home office is there, so this is not too unusual. I was remarking to my boss that "Junction" really is just a big small town, not a small city. The cost of living is quite low and their depressed housing market is just coming back to life. We also discussed that it's hard to find a decent meal in Junction. Not that good food is lacking, there's just nothing exceptional available.

Mrs. Skicrazy grew up in Salt Lake. Her Mom and two brothers still live there, so we visit quite often. We both agree that for a city, Salt Lake is real nice. Very friendly people and the skiing is close and excellent.

I live in Eagle, Colorado. The cost of living is very expensive. I am 20 min. from Beaver Creek and 30 min. from Vail. We have 11 other resorts within a 2 hour drive.

Now for the point. Have you looked at Glenwood Springs, Colorado?

If you wish to avoid the big city thing, and yet want a bit more interesting environment than Junction, this may be the place. It's certainly much cheaper than where I live, centered between the Vail Valley and the Roaring Fork (Aspen) Valley.
There is a fantastic hospital in Glenwood (Valley View), that has just completed a major expansion. Sunlight Mountain is right next door and is a fine smaller ski mountain. Doc Holliday is burried in the cemetery. There are TONS of great resterants. If I was starting over, this is where I'd be looking.

[ November 18, 2003, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Skicrazy ]
post #45 of 52
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by feal:
Selling the area to outsiders at an incremental pace will surely turn it into something very different in the future. When that breakpoint hits, and the experience suffers, is anyone's guess; but I don't think many will say that the 'Olympics Fallout' is over. ...It's a shame, but something that anyone contemplating a move would want to take into consideration.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ignorance is bliss. Where do you live? People still go to Europe to ski.

I'd hate for Utah to turn into Colorado. But even though many people move to Utah, that is not why the population is growing. Utah has the highest birth rate in the US, and most locals DO NOT SKI, OR EVEN PLAY IN THE MOUNTAINS

__________________________________________________ _______________

Alta,

I was referring to the increment sale of mountain real estate in an effort to attract mountain sports oriented people to the area. Just like what happened in the Summit County Colorado area, people will be enticed to the area as a getaway, and at some point everyone realizes that they somehow brought the city with them on their getaway; along with the ensuing problems. It's a cycle that the Salt Lake community accelerated with the Olympics, and it isn't going to stop any time soon. This recession may have slowed that pace a bit, but there are plenty of developers in the area waiting for whatever opportunities appear on the horizon.

The questions I am asking are something like; how much capacity is there left in the system for expansion, without problems that hurt the experience. From what I have seen, it doesn't appear to be that much. For the sake of all the dedicated Utah skiers, I hope I am wrong, but current business practices make it look to me like the powers that be will just pack the area opportunities until the revenue situation turns sour. The Salt Lake City area is not the only place in this situation, but certainly a little more 'high profile' since its olympic role.

This viewpoint is in no way meant to say that Utah skiing is substandard to any other area, but just that it is a bit more vulnerable because of its greatest strength; close proximity.
post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by nealric:
whole mormon thing in utah always seemed kinda sketchy to me.
Hey man, keep thinking that. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Maybe its the only thing that has kept SLC from turning into Denver.
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Lodro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nealric:
whole mormon thing in utah always seemed kinda sketchy to me.
Hey man, keep thinking that. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Maybe its the only thing that has kept SLC from turning into Denver.</font>[/quote]SLC should be so lucky..
post #48 of 52
Just a comment for discussion. From my point of view the Cottonwood Canyons in Salt Lake City are somewhat unique in terms of their situation in regards to destination skiing. There is extrememly limited opportunity for real estate development in either canyon. I'm not as knowledgable about Little Cottonwood Canyon but Big CC is part of the Salt Lake valley watershed and as such has only so many water rights. At this point in time only a very few (almost all indiviudal) properties are left to be developed because of this.

There is both a positive and negative side to this. The positive side (from my perspective) is that neither canyon will ever become a mega resort in terms of development. They are pretty much what they are and there is almost no growth potential. Thus if they are to continue to expand as destination resorts (which I think the owners of said resorts feel is important) they will be limited to filling up existing on sight beds and then have to utilize housing in the valley at the base of the canyons or elsewhere. This, from my point of view, is probably a very healthy environemntal outcome. It also provides the opportunity for very inexpensive housing - especially important in the case of destination skiers who have budget as a high priority.

The negative side is that many destination skiers want to be right at the resort and in the mountains.

I used to avoid the SLC area because of the latter. But the quality of skiing combined with budget considerations has resulted in me now skiing there on a regular basis (even if my condo in Solitude is rented out). I have come to accept the compromise of this urban/mountain skiing environemnt where days are spent in the mountains and evenings in the city.

My preferred solutions is still to be isolated in a mountain environment when I am skiing (or living for that matter but that is unfortunately not an option for me yet), but the quality of snow, terrain, mountain beauty, etc. found in the Cottonwood Canyons has lead me to be willing to compromise. I think this compromise is even less for people considering moving there as often a city environment is just a practical necessity for many people in terms of finding and keeping employment.

Now the Park City side is a very different story which is much more similar to Colorado resorts (in terms of real estate, snow quality, and terrain). I don't know where Snowbasin will ultimately fit in, but for now it is functionally a day resort with world class snow, terrain, and facilities. Powder Mountain I have yet to visit but I think of it as another day resort which just adds to the richness and variety of the ski environment in the SLC area.
post #49 of 52
I've been reading this thread and have been quite interested in it. I don't live in either Utah or Colorado, but along with everyone else who doesn't, I'm interested in moving there.

Would anyone care to expand the discussion to slc vs. denver/boulder? Should I start a new thread?

I love the countryside, but being young, single, and a professional, I prefer a city environment. Also, as skiers do you think the proximity and quality of skiing outweigh other factors where san francisco, boston, or new york could be seen as superior?
post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by shmerham:
Would anyone care to expand the discussion to slc vs. denver/boulder? Should I start a new thread?

I love the countryside, but being young, single, and a professional, I prefer a city environment. Also, as skiers do you think the proximity and quality of skiing outweigh other factors where san francisco, boston, or new york could be seen as superior?
Boulder is terrible. Highlands Ranch (way south Denver) is much better. And SLC is even better. Really... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img]

Actually, we love it here in Colorado (since 1990). We have lived in the Bay Area and in the mid-Hudson Valley and I grew up in Michigan. Here in Colorado there are a wide range of activities available in addition to the expected outdoor activities, including seven professional sports teams in Denver, major college sports, excellent theater and music both in Denver and Boulder, and some reasonably affordable housing off in the distance [img]redface.gif[/img] (that is the biggest challenge--you're either living up in the mountains or way out on the plains or you are spending serious jack on housing). Boulder is a college town with all that entails ("Seventeen square miles surrounded by reality...").

I've only visited SLC, but personally would not prefer to live there primarily because of the geography. The desert-to-mountains transition is so abrupt (but, this is what provides the desert-dried powder in those canyons [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] !).

FWIW,
ssh
post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Seth:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cheryl:
3. I don't drink much beer so that 3.2 part of Utah laws doesn't really bother me. Captain Morgan's is available right? LOL
Just don't try and mix it with anything.</font>[/quote]Huh?
post #52 of 52
Thread Starter 
Great information folks, thanks so much, especially those that took the time to post lengthy replies with useful information! I have really enjoyed reading everyone's viewpoint on the differences between Utah and Colorado and I bet others in the forum have also read the responses. I learned quite a bit. I'm sure I'll eventually spend some time in both places. I don't think that the LDS and limited upward mobility d/t not being Mormon would affect me as a nurse since there is a huge nursing shortage all over the country. I'm not interested in staying at one hospital and advancing into management at this time, I just want a job at a decent one Aug 2004 - Aug 2005 then will do travel nursing for several years before settling down somewhere. I read somewhere that Utah is a church-run state, not sure how they get away with that, I would think it's not "legal", isn't all of America supposed to be separation of church and state? BTW,this comment is not meant to start an arguement here, just a thought I'm expressing.

I'll post an update as soon as we decide where we to move. Have to see if any hospitals will let me work 2 weekend shifts (12 hours) for full-time pay and M-F off! Otherwise, 3 12 hr shifts would be preferred with 4 days a week off to ski. [img]smile.gif[/img] Oh, and do that homework for master's degree in nursing online.

Will be in Utah skiing over New Year's, got a great deal with round-trip airfare from Cinn & 4 nights at Wyndham in SLC - $375 each. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] BF can hang out downtown since he can't ski and I'll take the ski bus out to resorts 3 days to ski. I'm drooling just thinking about it! Will check out SLC atmosphere at that time and I'm sure we'll have a better idea about where whether we would want to live there after staying downtown.
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