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Did Intuition Liners Stiffen My Kryptons?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
After a season and a half I replaced my stock liners with Intuition Gold liners and they seem to have significantly stiffened the forward flex of my Kryptons. Has anyone else experienced this? After trying all the options I had my boots set up as stiff as possible, but with the new liners I'm thinking of going back to the soft tongues. What"s going on?
post #2 of 29
You're not the only one, and I have seen posts that people are switching back to softer tongues after putting in Intuition liners. I just got the power wraps and put them into Adrenalins and the difference is very noticeable. I'm a bit concerned about the walk mode being too stiff.
post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
The diameter of the Intuition Gold liner around the ankle is substantually bigger than my stock liners so I had to back all the buckles off a notch. It is a better fit in that it feels way more solid, but it reduced the sweet flex to being almost a solid race boot feel. I have only skied them in powder, so I haven't really tested them, but I'm glad I've got the softer tongues in the closet.

I was going to put them in my AT boots too. Let me know how they work for you climbing and hiking.
post #4 of 29
The Liners will make them a bit stiffer.
post #5 of 29
Yes, intuitons will stiffen the forward flex. It's really really noticeable going from the rampage stock liner to the ID, and moderately noticeable in the pro.
post #6 of 29
and if someone now wants to get rid of some 24/25 stiff tongues I need some for spring
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 
Skied my Kryps with the new Intution liners one more time with the stiff tongues and then swithed to the soft tougues and got the sweet flex back (but maybe not quite as buttery smooth as with the stock liners).

For what it's worth, my impression is that switching from the stock to the Intuition Gold liners stiffens the forward flex about as much as changing from the soft to stiff tongues, but I'm on the biggest size Kryps they make (29.5), so the effect on smaller sizes may be different.
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
Skied my Kryps with the new Intution liners one more time with the stiff tongues and then swithed to the soft tougues and got the sweet flex back (but maybe not quite as buttery smooth as with the stock liners).

For what it's worth, my impression is that switching from the stock to the Intuition Gold liners stiffens the forward flex about as much as changing from the soft to stiff tongues, but I'm on the biggest size Kryps they make (29.5), so the effect on smaller sizes may be different.
Sasquach!!!

In playing with the IL Moros and puttign the Gold's in them, I did notice a change in flex. I will ski the boot with both liners then decide which way I will go.
post #9 of 29
After using stock,intuition, and zip fit i notices the forward lean for each was a little different and had to find my center for each liner.
post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidbump View Post
After using stock,intuition, and zip fit i notices the forward lean for each was a little different and had to find my center for each liner.
I agree, I think the overlap of the Intution liners makes them thicker than the stock liners in front and puts you a little farther from the shell, resulting in less forward lean. That, combined with it stiffening the flex results in a different feel. Switching to the softer tongues doesn't restore the neutral forward lean point, but it allows me to get their with only slight pressure.
post #11 of 29
mudfoot, before you heat formed the liners, did they feel short to you?
post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
mudfoot, before you heat formed the liners, did they feel short to you?
Hard to say. They put a toe cap on so my toes were cramped during the heat forming process. I think I tried them on briefly before that, but don't remember any issues. The resulting fit does seem a little shorter than with the original stock liners because while skiing I can feel my toes occasionally hit the front now, when that never happened before. I have a size 12.5 foot, so it has been a tight fit with the 29.5 Kryps from the strart.
post #13 of 29
I ordered a size 29 Intuition and they sent me a size 11. Definitely tight in the toes, so I was wondering if the length would expand a bit with heating.
post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
Cirquerider: My new liners have a big 29.5 on the side. The stock ones were so snug that my foot would go numb. After heat molding the new Intuitions are slightly less snug. If you are worried about the length I think you can use a double or thicker toe cap when you heat mold them. If I continue to feel the toes on mine while skiing I may do a remold. The Kryp shells are made with a few mm of extra length in the toes, so I assume what you are feeling in the unmolded liners will disappear, but I am certainly no expert on the subject. Some of the shortness in the heels will probably also disappear during the molding process giving you a little more length from that end too.
post #15 of 29
I have a question for you guys: when you talk about Intuition Gold liner, is this the Dalbello I.D. Thermo Gold liner that Dalbello and Intuition Sports developed together for Dalbello?

I ask because Intuition Sports has what they call the Power Wrap model and it looks (at least from the web site) to be more upright. Are they the same?

The ski shop where I want to have my Intuition liners fitted carry the Dalbello I.D. models, and I want to make sure those are the one you guys are talking about. I would much rather buy liner and fitting from the shop to give them the full business (rather than come with my own liners).
post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 
I got the Dalbello brand ones from the dealer that sold me my boots. They have Dalbello and a big 29.5 size printed on the outside of the liners. I was concerned because when I bought my boots some conversion charts showed a 29.5 as being an 11.5, but I wear a 12.5. After encouragement from people on this forum I got a shell fit and found that the Kryptons are sized pretty big. I don't think my Dalbello 29.5 liner is comparable to an US 11.5 size. IMO a Dalebello 29.5 is at least a size 12 and probably a 12.5.

I believe there is a non-Dalbello brand Intuition liner, and if they are sized with US sizing (i.e. 11.5) then the match to Krypton shells may be skewed. As for comparison to a Power Wrap, I really don't know. They sure look the same to me, but I haven't compared them side by side.
post #17 of 29
I have the same problem with my intuitions, they feel short even after molding. And this is with triple sock toe caps. It's so short in the toe area that my toes feel like they are scrunched up & it is also painful to ski in them. I may remold again and take care to pull up on the liner to stretch it out & see what happens.

I got my liners true to the shell size, but I'm thinking maybe I should have gone 1 size up to get some extra length. The liner didnt feel too short when I had them on before molding.

Does anyone know how many times the liner can be re-molded? Also do they shrink with each re-heating?

When I molded mine, I did it slightly differently than some of tutorials I've seen. I heated the liner, put in the footbed, then put the whole works into the shell. I then slipped my foot into the liner while it was in the shell. I'm wondering now maybe if I might have better results with the liner length if I had put my foot into the liner before inserting into the shell?

Any suggestions?
post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
I ordered a size 29 Intuition and they sent me a size 11. Definitely tight in the toes, so I was wondering if the length would expand a bit with heating.
I just came across a sizing chart for a shoe company that illustrates what I've been talking about:

11 = 28
11.5 = 28.5
12 = 29

If you have size 29 shells they should be sending you a size 29 or size 12 liner, not an 11. The length will expand a little with heating, but not a whole size.
post #19 of 29
Yeah, I have a copy of my order and it looks like they messed up. I may need to do a return.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
I have a question for you guys: when you talk about Intuition Gold liner, is this the Dalbello I.D. Thermo Gold liner that Dalbello and Intuition Sports developed together for Dalbello?
Yes.

Quote:
I ask because Intuition Sports has what they call the Power Wrap model and it looks (at least from the web site) to be more upright. Are they the same?
No. They are different. One difference relevant to this thread: I think a size 8 PW allows a longer toe length than a size 26 ID Gold liner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
I agree, I think the overlap of the Intution liners makes them thicker than the stock liners in front and puts you a little farther from the shell, resulting in less forward lean.
Did you pull the back of the liner all the way up and have your boot toes up on a brick or something as the liners cooled?
post #21 of 29
Well I got my Intuition liners (Dalbello ID Thermo Gold) fitted today. Originally the boot fitter put an extra large/thick toe cap and after the cooling of the liner I felt like I had way too much room down there. The boot fitter re-heated the liner and I went for a normal toe cap. It felt better but I was still thinking that there is a lot of room. The boot fitter insisted that I ski them first before we do anything else.

When I got home and put the boots on again (they were cold at this point) they felt much tighter. I also noticed how high the liner is and that the wrap effectively makes you stand straighter.

Now I have to ski and see how it feels. I will probably get to ski on Thursday and I will let everyone know my experience. Who knows, someone might benefit from this post. I know I learned a lot from other people's experiences.

BTW, I have a size 260-265 boot (this is actually written on the Nordica Speedmachine 12 boot) and the Intuition liner is 26.5. I wear 9-9.5 shoes.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Well I got my Intuition liners (Dalbello ID Thermo Gold) fitted today. Originally the boot fitter put an extra large/thick toe cap and after the cooling of the liner I felt like I had way too much room down there. The boot fitter re-heated the liner and I went for a normal toe cap. It felt better but I was still thinking that there is a lot of room. The boot fitter insisted that I ski them first before we do anything else.


I re-heated my boots three times, the third without any socks. I felt I had too much room with the toe caps. I did use a brick under the toes while the boot cooled down. They had me fit them with the liners in the boots buckled loosely.

I have very narrow feet. I've been skiing with them set up like this over 20 times (11 so far this year). I'm very happy with the setup.
post #23 of 29
Thanks B R. If I find them too loose, I will ask my boot fitter to reheat them and skip the toe cap thingie.

But considering that my feet have been getting very cold from a fairly tight fit, I really want to make sure that I don't end up in the same boat. Having a bit of room to move and having warm feet has got to be better than having a tight fit and toes that you basically cannot feel after a couple of hours.
post #24 of 29
Sounds like a good plan. Try it out that way and if you need to re-visit the boot shop for re-molding, you have that option too.

The Krypton Pro ID's are the first boot I've owned in my adult life that I didn't install heaters in. I was going to, but when I saw the ID Liners, I couldn't cut them. It ended up being a good choice, my feet have yet to be cold. To me, those liners have made all the difference. Fit, warmth, comfort, performance.

Let us know how you make out.
post #25 of 29
Update.

I skied today and unfortunately the Speedmachine 12 boots are so roomy in the forefoot that I was floating in my liners. Thank god the cuff and heel were clamped down, so I could still ski well. After several hours I had to conclude that these liners were made for a much tighter boot. But the liner is incredibly hard and precise. Instant feedback from the slightest movement. The Intuition Gold is really a race type liner, made for a narrow, low volume boot. I could not bend my boots at all, which was OK in high speed carves, but I think it would be murder in bumps.

I went to see the boot fitter and he agreed that if I have that much room, the liner will simply not expand to take that space. He suggested to go to a size 27 Silver Intuition liner (my Gold liner was 26.5).

After the process I had a MUCH tighter fit and I will see how this plays out tomorrow. If this does not work, I might consider lifting the zeppa or even purchasing a lower volume boot. But I think it will be fine, since the liner felt really tight in the shop. We'll see.
post #26 of 29
Update II.

It turns out that a size 27 Silver Liner fits the Nordica Speedmachine 12 boot size 260-265. It certainly isn't a super tight fit over the instep, but it is perfect over the cuff and ankle area. Really nice for my purposes. I skied the setup today and it was quite nice.

The Silver liner is considerably softer than the Gold. Now that I know the difference, I have to wonder about skiing the Gold in anything but a plug boot or a race setup. I found the Gold liner impossible to bend in my boot, so I am wondering how others manage to bend it.
post #27 of 29
Thread Starter 
I was skiing my Krypton Pros with the stiff tongue and the stiffener gizmo in the back of the shell set at the lower setting, putting it between the top (stiffest) and no gizmo (softest). After replacing the stock liners with the Intuition Gold and skiing them a few times I have gone to the soft tongue and no gizmo (softest boot setting possible), and they still don't seem to flex as easily as my setup before.

I did pull the liners up and stand on an incline when molding them, and when I was done it felt like it had reduced the forward lean slightly, but the feeling could be due to stiffening the flex as opposed to actually decreasing the forward lean.

The fit of the Golds feels good, but it sounds like the Silvers might have maintained the orignal sweet flex characteristics of the boot better.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Update II.

It turns out that a size 27 Silver Liner fits the Nordica Speedmachine 12 boot size 260-265. It certainly isn't a super tight fit over the instep, but it is perfect over the cuff and ankle area. Really nice for my purposes. I skied the setup today and it was quite nice.

The Silver liner is considerably softer than the Gold. Now that I know the difference, I have to wonder about skiing the Gold in anything but a plug boot or a race setup. I found the Gold liner impossible to bend in my boot, so I am wondering how others manage to bend it.
I have the Silvers in my IL Moros and the Golds in my Pro's. There is a difference. I really like the Silvers. I might ski the Pros with the Silvers to see that combo.
post #29 of 29
I think Dalbello should make it much more obvious how different the Silver and Gold liners are. If you have only one boot to do it all, the Gold liner could make that boot rock solid and difficult in non-groomed conditions (especially if you don't have a nice flex like the Kryptons have to start with).

I am glad I ended up with the Silver, because I don't think I could handle the Gold in all conditions - even if the fit was perfect.
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