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Possible to analyze these pics? - Page 2

post #31 of 44
Thread Starter 
I just started to read the last link and halfway through the first answer it seems just like a description of how I carve the steep slopes on my slalom skis. (Never skid, just arc to keep the speed down. Well except for when the edges don't really hold, like in the second photo. There the skis skid somewhat sideways during all the turn from either being too soft or the edges wasn't perfect. Very hard snow. But still no rotation, just carving technique.)
Very nice to read about others doing the same. Also good to have a name for it.
I'm going to enjoy this read.

PS: I think actually all alpine snowboarders think and choose their lines this way.
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
Thanks! Much to read.
I think I understand how you prefer the arms movement ssh. Like in the Bode Miller video right? He's very calm in his upper body when free skiing, not at all like the 2 guys in the video I linked to above here.
Yes, that's right. The reason some of the racers in-course move their hands more has to do with balance and pressure management. Usually when free skiing we do not develop the forces that create a need for that kind of hand adjustments (which is what that is, really: using the hands to compensate for living on the edge... literally).

BTW and FWIW, I was thinking about your reply to my earlier comments. I'd almost be willing to wager that you are washing out a bit at the end of the turn. You may not feel it, and may at times be able to maintain the arc because you're holding a higher edge angle than necessary. But, if you begin to flatten a bit earlier (as suggested above), your edges may very well break loose because of that extra torque at the end of the turn. I think you'd be well-served by removing the over-rotation of your upper body at the end of the turn.
post #33 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
PS: I think actually all alpine snowboarders think and choose their lines this way.
Certainly the ones who ride the rail do!

It was watching guys like that rip it up on Peak 10 at Breck a number of years ago that pulled me into the modern skis and learning how to drive them. Of course, I'm still learning...

But, man, I love the arc! : :
post #34 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Yes, that's right. The reason some of the racers in-course move their hands more has to do with balance and pressure management. Usually when free skiing we do not develop the forces that create a need for that kind of hand adjustments (which is what that is, really: using the hands to compensate for living on the edge... literally).
I linked to racers freeriding. No course there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
BTW and FWIW, I was thinking about your reply to my earlier comments. I'd almost be willing to wager that you are washing out a bit at the end of the turn. You may not feel it, and may at times be able to maintain the arc because you're holding a higher edge angle than necessary. But, if you begin to flatten a bit earlier (as suggested above), your edges may very well break loose because of that extra torque at the end of the turn. I think you'd be well-served by removing the over-rotation of your upper body at the end of the turn.
Might it be that I'm skiing more across the slope than what's usual?
I might have reason to get some video footage to analyze it further but at the moment I don't recognize the problems you are referring to.
I think probably at least one more frame after both the first and the last frame would have been good. Neither the first or the last is shows a finished turn. The both hands always moves forward up in the split second before changing edge. I know it can't be seen on the photos here, but it's a forward motion (in the current direction), not a rotary motion.
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
I linked to racers freeriding. No course there.
Yes, I understood. I was agreeing with you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
Might it be that I'm skiing more across the slope than what's usual?
I might have reason to get some video footage to analyze it further but at the moment I don't recognize the problems you are referring to.
I think probably at least one more frame after both the first and the last frame would have been good. Neither the first or the last is shows a finished turn. The both hands always moves forward up in the split second before changing edge. I know it can't be seen on the photos here, but it's a forward motion (in the current direction), not a rotary motion.
Ah! You're moving your hands forward at the transition! Yes, that will compensate a good deal for this, but it is also extraneous movement that can throw you off a bit. (Note: yet more evidence that stills don't tell the whole story, and it helps to ask enough questions... )

What happens in your skiing if you endeavor to keep the hands reasonably stable instead of moving fore and aft?
post #36 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Yes, I understood. I was agreeing with you...
Then I misunderstod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Ah! You're moving your hands forward at the transition! Yes, that will compensate a good deal for this, but it is also extraneous movement that can throw you off a bit. (Note: yet more evidence that stills don't tell the whole story, and it helps to ask enough questions... )

What happens in your skiing if you endeavor to keep the hands reasonably stable instead of moving fore and aft?
The difference would probably be negligible. But I would have slightly less to do? I mean one's gotta have something to occupy oneself with on the way down right?
post #37 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
The difference would probably be negligible. But I would have slightly less to do? I mean one's gotta have something to occupy oneself with on the way down right?
Hmmm... it has to be a fair amount of movement to get that uphill hand back to forward. Fair amount for a hand, anyway... I'd like to see the result if you play with keeping the body more aligned.
post #38 of 44
Thread Starter 
I like to get airborne between turns. On an alpine snowboard it's very easy. It may be that I'm doing that all of the time without really thinking about it. It may be beneficial to do what you say and be more gentle with the upper body and not always go for the mooore poooooweerrrrr version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Hmmm... it has to be a fair amount of movement to get that uphill hand back to forward. Fair amount for a hand, anyway...
What frame are you referring to? The last one?


Btw, your name sounds very swedish to me. Stephen would be Stefan, Sven is spelled the same way and Hultquist could be spelled like that or like
Hultqvist ot Hultkvist. Hult is an old swedish word for grove and kvist is a twig. In sweden surnames are most often either combinations of 2 words of something from the nature, or a name and adding son to it (like Sven's son = Svensson).
To me Hult is a word that I connect to the province Småland. There were a lot of people moving from there to America around 1900. Are you perhaps related to one of them?
post #39 of 44
Carl, thanks for the diversion!

While I am adopted into the family, my father's grandfather (Sven Peter Hultquist) did, indeed, immigrate to the US in the early 1900s. There were some stories that his name wasn't actually Hultquist when he got to Ellis Island, but was a more common US name (like <something>son) and so he changed it. I don't know if that's true or not.

My (adopted) mom's mom named me "Stephen", dad named me "Sven", and I of course took his last name "Hultquist". One of these years, I'd like to get over to Sweden and perhaps make some turns while I'm there...
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post
I like to get airborne between turns. On an alpine snowboard it's very easy. It may be that I'm doing that all of the time without really thinking about it. It may be beneficial to do what you say and be more gentle with the upper body and not always go for the mooore poooooweerrrrr version.


What frame are you referring to? The last one?
I think you're catching on to what I've been poorly communicating. Apologies for the struggle I've given you!

Note: there's nothing "wrong" with skiing how you want, but there may be ways that will introduce a different set of sensations. When I first began the transition to more shaped skis, my technique involved a very hard edge-set at the end of the turn. 4 years later, I'm still focused on movements to take the harsh transition out of my skiing and smooth it out.

I can always go back, but there are some movements in that smooth change that are still difficult for me due to my ingrained, long-term habits.

...hence my encouragement to play with it and to see what you think...
post #41 of 44
CarlR,

That looks like some nice skiing. I agre with most of the posts above. I can't tell from the camera angle about tip lead. The slight A-frame visible is from moving your hip nicley into the turn, but your left femor is behind that movement. Do some turns on shallow terrain by moving your femor first, in the direction of the turn. Right femor, right turns, left femor left turns. Once you isolate that movement, start to apply that to your dymanic turns.

RW
post #42 of 44
Thread Starter 
I think my A-framing is mostly a shallow terrain problem. I think I shape up when it's steeper. It may be I'm "over edging" too early, that I'm expecting the skis to turn more. (Already getting bored from the shallow terrain and refusing to realize that slope is over. )

Please compare with the "second" photo.
post #43 of 44
Carl,

In the second shot (steep) it does look better, but it is later in the turn. Where the A-frame appears in the montage is early in the turn. That is where I was suggesting to move your femor into the turn. I could also be what you ae saying, trying to get the feel of steep terrain skiing on flatter terrain.

RW
post #44 of 44
Can't be entirely certain from just a few frames in this case, but when I see ski tips diverging, I find it is often a result of being on the inside ski in the later part of the turn. If you think this is you, be patient on the outside ski through to your turn completion, and get centred over both skis in the transition from one turn to the next.
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