EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Booster strap question.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Booster strap question. - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
What does a regular webbing and Velcro power strap do?

a) tighten the boot more than possible with buckles.

b) make the flex (not fit!) less dependent on buckle tension

c) make the flex (not fit!) less dependent on buckle tension and less dependent on properties of cuff plastic material and more directly dependent on flex of the boot spine

d) stiffen the boot flex

e) none of the above.

Maybe a little bit of a) just at the top of the cuff.
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
Maybe a little bit of a) just at the top of the cuff.
How is that possible? How is that possible with something that doesn't have a cam and a great lever but is held together by Velcro and tightened by hand like a belt?

Buckles don't stretch, don't really have -that- much freeplay along their length , presumably the whole thing is already buckled tight.

Where is the extra room, that a webbing and Velcro affair, cavalierly fastened, can just so casually take up?
post #33 of 45
If I eat my spinach and really yank on it, it seems to snug up the top of the cuff.

Was e) the correct answer?


EDIT: Now that I went and looked at my boot, I'm really convinced that it can't be doing anything.
post #34 of 45
I like e). A lot.

But we haven't explained how a) is possible quite yet.

My best explanation for a) is that the buckles on a boot cuff -do- actually have a fair bit of free play even when buckled tight. The free play is rotary, not along the buckle length. The bail wire can rotate in the notch.

Much like a double door, with a hook and eye closure. If we push against the double door, it will give because the hook spins in the eye.

Now tie a rope across the doors in a tight loop that goes across the doors and around a post behind them. Fasten the hook and eye. Stand inside the loop and push the doors outwards. Much less give, I reckon.

The doors are the two parts of the boot cuff, the door hinges are the flex in the halves of the boot cuff that let you unbuckle and take the foot out, the post is the spine of the boot.
post #35 of 45
I like that analogy.

The only other thing that I can think of is a slight mismatch between the plastic cuff under the buckles and the liner/tongue.

This is a rigid, molded plastic cuff that has a finite radius to it. The liner and tongue has a slightly tighter radius, no matter how tight you crank the buckles, the two will never match. The strap seems to take up the last 1/4" or so of slop on the tongue of the liner.
post #36 of 45

Bolts In or Bolts Out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post
I've now been keeping them under the cuff also. I tightened everything (booster & buckles) and they stayed in place. I then removed the upper screw to soften the boot. Worked yesterday, but it was rather warm. I may need to remove the lower screw also, as these boots really stiffen up when cold.
I would really encourage you to remove both bolts. I skied the Lange Comp 130 for 3 years, and the first thing I did was remove the single bolt in that model to provide a much improved range of fore/aft flexion, whether it's a cold or warm day. Fellow coaches & instructors on the 120 and 130 did the same, with equivalent positive results, and this is also one of the first things I check on the boots of the kids I coach. With the top of the shell & cuff snugged up well with the buckle & Booster strap, you'll still get all the lateral energy transfer you want.

Interestingly (oddly, some might say), I personally didn't notice an appreciable difference with Booster straps on the Langes -- I ended up giving them to a friend who is very happy with the results on his Rossis. Last year I changed to the Atomic CS130, which doesn't have quite as nice a stock power strap as Lange. After I finish a couple of other fitting details, I might be looking at Booster straps again.
post #37 of 45
I understand that taking the top screw out reduces the stiffness by about 20%.

So, if the Lange 120-130 become 96-104, why not just buy the 100 in the first place and save some cash?
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I understand that taking the top screw out reduces the stiffness by about 20%.

So, if the Lange 120-130 become 96-104, why not just buy the 100 in the first place and save some cash?
because softening a boot is very easily done and stiffening it is damn near impossible.
post #39 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I understand that taking the top screw out reduces the stiffness by about 20%.

So, if the Lange 120-130 become 96-104, why not just buy the 100 in the first place and save some cash?
For me, I went with the boot that the fitter recommended. In the shop they were easy to flex, once cold, not so easy. I'm also about 20 -25 lbs lighter now.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I understand that taking the top screw out reduces the stiffness by about 20%.

So, if the Lange 120-130 become 96-104, why not just buy the 100 in the first place and save some cash?
Removing the bolt doesn't result in an overall reduction in stiffness -- it's a bit more focused.

Removing the bolt frees the hinge so that you have more range of movement fore & aft (keep those ankles active!!), but at the same time, the lateral stiffness is maintained. The 130 with no bolt still provides more lateral support than the 120 with or without bolts. A key point when putting the boot on is to have the top buckle & power strap very snug, and the second buckle a little looser.

The 130 also proved to be a sturdier boot -- a couple of people around my size (5'-7", 165 lb) had some problems with shell cracks & broken buckles near the end of the first season on the 120.

Another reason I chose the 130 is that it had a better fitting liner.
post #41 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post
Removing the bolt doesn't result in an overall reduction in stiffness -- it's a bit more focused.

Removing the bolt frees the hinge so that you have more range of movement fore & aft (keep those ankles active!!), but at the same time, the lateral stiffness is maintained. The 130 with no bolt still provides more lateral support than the 120 with or without bolts. A key point when putting the boot on is to have the top buckle & power strap very snug, and the second buckle a little looser.

The 130 also proved to be a sturdier boot -- a couple of people around my size (5'-7", 165 lb) had some problems with shell cracks & broken buckles near the end of the first season on the 120.

Another reason I chose the 130 is that it had a better fitting liner.
I always thought it was the 2nd buckle that was to kept tight, as it keeps the heel down in place. I tend to not like the upper buckle super tight, just tight enough to keep the Booster in place under the shell.
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post
I always thought it was the 2nd buckle that was to kept tight, as it keeps the heel down in place. I tend to not like the upper buckle super tight, just tight enough to keep the Booster in place under the shell.
For best performance, you want the top buckle tightest, with the second buckle looser (but not sloppy or undone). If you tighten the second buckle, and leave the top buckle looser, this will work not too badly in good conditions, but at higher speeds, on harder surfaces or in heavy crud, you'll lose some of the control and responsiveness that you would like to have. If you tighten both buckles, you'll have quick lateral movement transfer, but you'll lose some ankle mobility.

Just to clarify, when I say "tight" I mean holding things firmly in place, but not uncomfortably tight. How tight does vary with conditions & weather: for example, I go another buckle notch tighter if it's a warm day.

If you feel you need the second buckle tight to keep your heel snug in the heel pocket, I would wonder if your fit might be a bit too generous. The bottom two buckles on the lower shell section should hold the foot reasonably well in place, even with the upper cuff buckles loose or undone.
post #43 of 45
I use my 3-ply boosters outside my Falcon 10 cuff.

But- I loosen my top buckle and I CRANK my booster. My top buckle is just buckled to stay in place. I find this methodology gives me ample forward flex and helps me return to position more quickly.

There is no way I would be able to get the same performance out of the original velcro strap because it doesn't stretch.
post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
I use my 3-ply boosters outside my Falcon 10 cuff.

But- I loosen my top buckle and I CRANK my booster. My top buckle is just buckled to stay in place. I find this methodology gives me ample forward flex and helps me return to position more quickly.

There is no way I would be able to get the same performance out of the original velcro strap because it doesn't stretch.
I do the exact same thing with my Falcon 10s.
post #45 of 45
Thanks mogulmuncher!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Booster strap question.