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Just curious, need a recommendation for tight turning powder ski...

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Right now I always ski on a pair of Volkl Superspeeds, which I love for speeding down groomed runs and minor powder.

I'm curious to try a ski that would let me make tighter turns and better performance in powder. I'm:

165 lbs
Intermediate Skill
6'2"

Is performance in powder and a tight turning radius compatible? I'm looking for a ski that would give me a lot of maneuverability to weave my way down powdered runs and make tight turns through trees and obstacles. I can work the Volkls so they do this, but it's more work. I do love them though for most of my skiing which is in Minnesota on groomed runs . This new pair would moreso be for out-west.
post #2 of 24
You're describing one of the strengths of the reverse cambered/rockered and/or reverse sidecut skis such as: DPS Lotus 138, Volant Spatula, Armada ARG, Praxis, etc...
post #3 of 24
What sbout something like Icelantic Nomads?
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgof View Post
You're describing one of the strengths of the reverse cambered/rockered and/or reverse sidecut skis such as: DPS Lotus 138, Volant Spatula, Armada ARG, Praxis, etc...
I agree with Mgof, I f you are looking for a pure powder ski, this is the way to go.

Of your looking for a more conventional ski, consider the Fischer Watea series. These are quick feeling and perform well in moguls and tight spots.

Michael
post #5 of 24
These guys are right on. You'll get the tightest turns in powder with a Spatula that is wider underfoot than at the tips and tails. It allows you to vitually spin and smear in the snow. Other reverse camber powder specific boards give you similar but not quite the same turn tighness and will handle funky snow better, but are a handfull on the packed.

If you want a conventional ski that makes quick powder turns you need something with a soft flex. Sidecut will not really help you. Fischers are a good call. My 192 length 101 waisted Wateas suprised me with their ability to crank out a very tight powder turn by loading up the soft front end.

There is one other option, but I don't recommend it for a good skier. You can get short fat boards, which will force you to ski off the tails in deep snow but give you quick manuverability. IMO this is for intermediates who don't work the flex of their skis, but it does provide quick powder turns.
post #6 of 24
Scott P4s are a very easy to use conventional pow ski.
post #7 of 24
Another nod to the P4 among conventional skis. One should also not overlook the best selling powder ski of all time, the Solly PR/1080 Gun. Those skis were the best sellers for the last 5-6 years because they were/are ridiculously easy.

Those are two very easy turning conventional skis.

SJ
post #8 of 24
Line Prophet 100 have a tight turn radius ~18M
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post
Line Prophet 100 have a tight turn radius ~18M
Unfortunately, small turning radii don't always correspond to tight turns in pow- the big tips help a bit, but what really determines turning radius in powder is flex. Look for a soft conventional skis like the Salomon Gun, Elan M02.2 (do they still even make that?), or Scott P4 or the reverse camber skis like the K2 Hellbent, Armada ARG, etc.
post #10 of 24
couple of things to consider:

1. is this going to be a dedicated powder only ski or are you looking for something that you can ride both on the groomers and in deep powder?

2. are you looking to go in the reverse camber direction or are you adamant about keeping to more traditional shapes?

Most folks have given you suggestions for both options.

If you really want something that excels in tight turns in deep powder then a reverse camber ski cannot be beat. I bought some Spatulas last season and they are off-the-nuts in terms of tight turns. Given their reverse camber you don't turn 'em so much as pivot from side to side. You can manouver tight trees, turn on a dime (it's a lot like driving a forklift, but in the snow), and scrub speed at the drop of a hat.

I have not ridden the updates on this shape (Praxis, DP Lotus, ARG, Pontoon) but in most instances they've added a little more sidecut and a stiffer flex to make them a bit more versatile on groomers (though they are still basically a dedicated powder ski).

If you are looking for a more traditional shape, lots of folks swear by the Gotama (Volkl), Sanouk, and Sumo. I have never ridden any of those, but since you mentioned that you currently have Volkls, thought i'd toss 'em out.

Really, you need to decide if this is a deep day only ski or if you want something a little more versatile.

To give you some kind of reality check, I only used my Spatulas 6 days out of 40 last season. They are a pretty specialized ski. But those 6 days were fun as hell.



PS:

http://www.powdermag.com/buyersguide...der/index.html

and

http://community.freeskier.com/artic...rticle_id=1200


for some additional suggestions/insights/drooling material in terms of powder skis that are out there.
post #11 of 24
just remember overall float is going to be quicker than skinny sidecut skis. translation look at flex patterns over the sidecut. The sidecut doesnt turn the pow skis.

I wouldnt go with a 'fun' shaped skis at first because they are pain to use in stuff that not soft snow. Maybe later but untill you try some more convential stuff out i would stay away from them.

convential skis that you should at.

really soft

Rossi Scratch BC
Solly 1080 Guns
Scott p4s
line sir francious Bacon(last years)
Volkl Sanouk(193 is no hard to handle)
Bluehouse skis District

soft(at least to me)
Volkl Gotama
K2 Seth
Line Sir Francious Bacon(this year is quite a bit stiffer)
Volkl Sumo
Rossi B94 and B100 up to 184cm
Rossi Scratch Steeze
Volkl Katana
Dynstar Big Trouble

Meduim stiffness
Atomic Thug
Amarda ANTS(the newest one are slightly softer)
Dynastar XXL Pro(194 only right now. go with the 187 when it comes out)
Head IM105
Elan 999(the older ones are softer)
Elan 1111


I wouldnt go stiffer than that but jsut pic your flex and go long and you should be fine.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the recommendations!

I'm now beginning to understand why people end up with a quiver of skis, when I posted I was thinking there would be a really clear choice, now I'm not sure. I want to get a reverse camber ski AND a more conventional like the Völkl Gotama or High Society Freerides (recommended to me in a PM). Don't have that much money though

The Gotama, High Society Freerides and Scott P4s seem to be pretty similar. Now that I think about it I do want a ski that would give me some performance on groomed runs so I'm not stuck always chasing powder. I guess that takes reverse camber skis out. I really don't need a total all mountain ski though since I'm looking moreso to cover the areas that the Superspeeds do not perform well in. And they are awesome on groomed runs.

So another question, the Gotama or P4s perform pretty well in powder, but will they also let me make quick tight turns on groomed runs? I want a ski that focuses on powder but it would be great if I could also be really maneuverable on groomed run, its hard to make quick tight turns on groomers with the Superspeeds, and I'd like to be able to do that as well as get good performance in powder (I am aware that reverse camber would let me really kick ass in powder, but I don't see enough powder to justify such a specialized purchase I think).

Thanks again for all the help, it's really great to have so many knowledgeable people who are willing to take time out of their day to talk about ski gear with a newbie like me
post #13 of 24
The P4 isn't the best groomer ski, but if its softer you can really arc them. If its icy they suck. Goats are stiffer and I am sure a better groomer ski overall. Any powder ski has to be worked into short turns on piste. They aren't like short radius carvers.
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
The P4 isn't the best groomer ski, but if its softer you can really arc them. If its icy they suck. Goats are stiffer and I am sure a better groomer ski overall. Any powder ski has to be worked into short turns on piste. They aren't like short radius carvers.
Hmm that's too bad, was kinda hoping for the best of both worlds. Anyone know if the Gotamas would lend to tighter turns then the Super speeds on groomed snow?
post #15 of 24
If you can't make a snorter narrower cross ski like the super speed carve short then you will never get the same out of a longer fatter ski. On a powder day the groomers will be soft too.
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
If you can't make a snorter narrower cross ski like the super speed carve short then you will never get the same out of a longer fatter ski. On a powder day the groomers will be soft too.
So any of these skis will tend to make wider turns on groomed snow then the Superspeeds, gotcha. Thanks, That clears that question up.

By the way, I should qualify what I said before, I CAN make small tight turns on the Superspeeds, but they require some serious work and concentration to do so. The superspeeds really excel when I'm making wider turns and speeding down the mountain, which I really enjoy doing... A tighter turn radius on groomers was really a secondary concern though, so it looks like I'm leaning towards something along the lines of Gotama or High Society freerides.

I think I'll wait until the end of the season and see what's available. If any places that I ski this year have any of these to rent I'll be sure to try them out.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
just remember overall float is going to be quicker than skinny sidecut skis. translation look at flex patterns over the sidecut. The sidecut doesnt turn the pow skis.

I wouldnt go with a 'fun' shaped skis at first because they are pain to use in stuff that not soft snow. Maybe later but untill you try some more convential stuff out i would stay away from them.

convential skis that you should at.

really soft

Rossi Scratch BC
Solly 1080 Guns
Scott p4s
line sir francious Bacon(last years)
Volkl Sanouk(193 is no hard to handle)
Bluehouse skis District

soft(at least to me)
Volkl Gotama
K2 Seth
Line Sir Francious Bacon(this year is quite a bit stiffer)
Volkl Sumo
Rossi B94 and B100 up to 184cm
Rossi Scratch Steeze
Volkl Katana
Dynstar Big Trouble

Meduim stiffness
Atomic Thug
Amarda ANTS(the newest one are slightly softer)
Dynastar XXL Pro(194 only right now. go with the 187 when it comes out)
Head IM105
Elan 999(the older ones are softer)
Elan 1111


I wouldnt go stiffer than that but jsut pic your flex and go long and you should be fine.

Your list has errors
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hvatum View Post
Hmm that's too bad, was kinda hoping for the best of both worlds. Anyone know if the Gotamas would lend to tighter turns then the Super speeds on groomed snow?

it wont the gotama will be much more stable than your superspeed on groomers. You can go 40mph plus carving turns with no issues on the volkl gotamas.

with that said dynamic short turns are doable on the gotamas just not as fun as the superspeed.

Just remember the best powder skis have very little sidecut. sidecut is helpful is help in tight turns on groomers.
post #19 of 24
You are discovering the fallacy of the "free lunch". The attribute that contributes most to tight turns in deep snow is flex. The attribute that contributes most to tight turns on groomers is sidecut. (this does make a few assumptions about your knowing what edge and pressure etc. is all about) Both of these factors are the antithesis of speed and stability whether it is on pack or in the goo. So here is the question....what do you really want????????

If it's a ski that is as powerful and stable as your SS but as quick and manueverable in the Goo as a 1080 gun...........call us when you wake up.

The OQ was a tight turning powder ski and there have been several mentioned. Among the best of those is the Solly 1080 Gun. If you now want something different than that...please restate the question.

SJ
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
You are discovering the fallacy of the "free lunch". The attribute that contributes most to tight turns in deep snow is flex. The attribute that contributes most to tight turns on groomers is sidecut. (this does make a few assumptions about your knowing what edge and pressure etc. is all about) Both of these factors are the antithesis of speed and stability whether it is on pack or in the goo. So here is the question....what do you really want????????

If it's a ski that is as powerful and stable as your SS but as quick and manueverable in the Goo as a 1080 gun...........call us when you wake up.

The OQ was a tight turning powder ski and there have been several mentioned. Among the best of those is the Solly 1080 Gun. If you now want something different than that...please restate the question.

SJ
Nope, I'm clear about what I want now. Just wasn't sure what was possible when I first posted.

Something along the lines of the Gotama or perhaps even the Solomon 1080 guns are what I will be looking for now. They seem like the best compromise between powder performance and groomer stability.

Thanks again BushwakerinPA and all other for the info and recommendations.
post #21 of 24
Mudfoot, I assume that the Fatypus counts as a short fat ski that you have to ski from the tail? Wow, they do a great job of faking those shots!
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Mudfoot, I assume that the Fatypus counts as a short fat ski that you have to ski from the tail? Wow, they do a great job of faking those shots!
As this thread illustrates, there are several ways to skin the powder cat. Haven't had any experience with the Fatypus, but IMO if you have to ski your powder skis from the backseat then they are too short, too stiff, or both. Maybe I'm just getting old and lazy, but tailgunning takes a whole lot more muscle than I want to be using for more than two turns in row.

The new reverese camber reverse sidecut skis (i.e. Fatypus) completely change the dynamics of the powder turn. If you want to stay more on top of deep snow and swivel your turns, go for it. If you are skiing powder and they're woking for you, that's all that really matters. The new skis are cool tools but for my money they tend to blunt the three dimensional feel of the conventional style powder boards. I think their best application is bad deep snow condtions where they can take what was once viturally unskiable and make it highly rippable, but maybe I'm just resisting "progress."
post #23 of 24
Although at first I mentioned the RC/RS skis, I'll put in a vote for the Moment Ruby's. I've skied them a few days in the short Tahoe season, including some short shots of untracked powder at Squaw on Saturday. They have a nice flex pattern (much like an old Gotama it's said), relatively soft tip/tail w/ stiffer underfoot. They float great, are a bit 'surfy' and I could slarve them quickly in 1.5 ft of new snow easily making me think it'd be great in the trees. In addition, although it's 111mm underfoot I think it does well on hardpack groomers as well, just lay 'em over (27m turn radius). Through soft crud they were very stable for me at higher speeds. Overall, a very versatile powder ski, very fun. FYI, I'm 5'9" 150lbs and ski the 188 and think it's very manageable.
oh, by the way: momentskis.com if you're interested... and I'm not affiliated just in love w/ the ski.
post #24 of 24
I'm thinking you should jump on a pair of Salomons. You just might be surprised...
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