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Technique Myths Debunked!! - Page 2

post #31 of 132
Yeah, don't believe Mutt and Jeff. They don't spend much time on it.
post #32 of 132
Rick,

Thanks for the concise review of this video. This is the type of analysis I was looking for in the other thread I started. Your comments put this video in a perspective that I can better reconcile it with what I think I know and understand.
post #33 of 132
I did not see that post as a good review. To me he posted what he wished Mr. Miller and his coach had said, hence the snarky reply.

I'd like to see where they said pole plants are optional, you are just fine fore/aft neutral, and that knee angulation is just a situational tool to be minimized when possible.

They don't agree with you Rick.
post #34 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
I did not see that post as a good review. To me he posted what he wished Mr. Miller and his coach had said, hence the snarky reply.

I'd like to see where they said pole plants are optional, you are just fine fore/aft neutral, and that knee angulation is just a situational tool to be minimized when possible.

They don't agree with you Rick.
Nor do I as my interpretation (I know my minds eye may be inaccurate, at least what I am trying to ski like) of how i ski aligns very much with what is shown in the video.

I have also heard Bode on numerous occasions comment that when he is really "ON" he feels like he is skiing with his knees!

i have always thought the completely neutral fore/aft posiition is baloney. Although that can depend on what ski you are on. I have skied on some K2's (never did like any of them, that you had to stay off the tip of, Mod-X Pro's I think) I am from the camp that you want your skis chasing your body down the hill not your body chasing your skis. Any little obstacle or undulation in the snow surface quickly puts you back if you are just standing in the middle of the ski, what I would call along for the ride.

That very neutral position only works for me on a fairly flat slope in chopped up snow. Additionally, if you stay in the center of the ski as the slope steepens you will be in the backseat. Is it not true that in order to stay balanced on a steep slope you most move even farther forward to stay over your skis.

You have got to move forward at the start of the turn and then resist getting pushed back at the end of a turn. So you make the forward movement happen and then resist the push back.

As far as shuffle and inside tip lead and they do mention hip lead. As you increase your angles you have got to have your inside foot ahead to make room for your outside foot.

Rick, it is fine you think about hip when doing that if the works for you, but Bode is clearly advocating a shuffle. i use my inside knee rolled to the inside of the turn to accomodate this and to assist w/parallel shafts.

Although I think this is a lot more basic then the other video, it is newer (Bode is on Head skis) and covers some Fore/Aft and knee/Lateral movements.

http://www.sportskool.com/videos/better-turns

As far as pole touchs plants/touches whatever you want to call them. Absolutley crucial and mandatory IMHO. Can you carve without them? Sure you can. Are you as aligned, focused, precise and balanced? I would say no.

I have always thought Bode is a bit of a train wreck on the circuit, but without a doubt he can ski and McNichol knows what he is talking about.

i guess somehow Rick was intimidated into calling them Mutt & Jeff. Comes off kinda petty, and jealous. I guess when you can ski as well as Bode and coach as good as Phil you can make fun of them.
post #35 of 132
BTW, A-man, have you ever considered writing headlines for a living?
post #36 of 132
I see it Rick's way. You don't need to tell me why your advocating everything you would like me to do in your video; that would be too boring for most viewers. I like looking at things on a deeper level, most people don't.
post #37 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
BTW, A-man, have you ever considered writing headlines for a living?
it never occured to me, but I do put together alot of the advertising for our store.

You are welcome to check out our website (all women's clothing though)

www.tempoclothing.com i wrote the site, but did not design it.
post #38 of 132
If you lead with your tip, then what kind of service do you think you'll get?
post #39 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
it never occured to me, but I do put together alot of the advertising for our store.

You are welcome to check out our website (all women's clothing though)

www.tempoclothing.com i wrote the site, but did not design it.
Nice! Well done, A-man...
post #40 of 132
Interesting how upset people get when you assign their heroes endearing little nicknames. :
post #41 of 132
Endearing nicknames? Seemed to be a cheap shot to me.

in any case and whatever anyone thinks, the methodology they describe works.

For me to go out on the hill yesterday and add back some of the things I'd been working at eliminating was very refreshing - and effective.

Tip lead to help get the inside hip forward.

Knee angulation.

Even some up unweighting motion.

It's all good.
post #42 of 132
Be careful SkimangoJazz, their is a reason you were trying to eliminate some of the things you were doing. Keep in mind that everything is an exercise and that Rick was only trying to warn against complacency and blind acceptance.

You may or may not be following a false profit on the things you think that you are doing. Don't pat yourself on the back unless you ski like Bode.

My father once said of deer hunting " the deer are behind you. They are keeping track of you instead of you keeping track of them" With that in mind I could fing them every time, Wise words.
post #43 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Be careful SkimangoJazz, their is a reason you were trying to eliminate some of the things you were doing. Keep in mind that everything is an exercise and that Rick was only trying to warn against complacency and blind acceptance.

You may or may not be following a false profit on the things you think that you are doing. Don't pat yourself on the back unless you ski like Bode.

My father once said of deer hunting " the deer are behind you. They are keeping track of you instead of you keeping track of them" With that in mind I could fing them every time, Wise words.
Blind acceptance!

Come on Pierre!: give us a little more credit then that!
post #44 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Interesting how upset people get when you assign their heroes endearing little nicknames. :
it is common knowledge i have been an outspoken Bode basher on Epic and criticized for him not being my hero!!

You gotta admit the boy can ski!

And those nicknames of yours? Condescending trash:
post #45 of 132
Pierre, I'm not sure I really get your point. My point has to do with my (new) signature. I reject dogma. "It's all good" I said. I have gained from following the PSIA gospel and working on reducing tip lead, reducing up and down motion, and thinking of angulating more at the snow level then at the knee level.

I just also gained from adding tip lead, adding up and down motion and thinking once again about knee angulation.

People ski really well different ways. There is not just one way to heaven.

You'll never find me following any prophets. (Maybe profits, but not prophets.)
post #46 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Interesting how upset people get when you assign their heroes endearing little nicknames. :
I don't think you can put words in my mouth anymore than Bode's. I see him not as a hero, but as a troubled and troubling young man (young enough to be my son) .

No less of technician than Micheal Von Grunigan called him the best carver on the circuit. When he provides a well done free video on what he sees as the elements of carving, I'm inclined to listen, rather than rephrase his ideas with my own bias.
post #47 of 132
Close to 60,000 posts between all of the posters on this thread!!

As bumpfreaq might say "I'm just sayin!"
post #48 of 132
I won't say anymmore.:
post #49 of 132
OK, then guys. Disregard what I said about the knee angulation stuff being a stepping stone in their teaching progression. Be my guest; knee angulate your turns, and horse the front of your boots till the cows come home. And please, do continue to tell the good folks here that structural alignment and through the foot balance is a load of crap. What a wonderful service you'll be providing.

Damn, too bad Mutt and Jeff didn't do a drill with 50-50 weighting, you could have been singing the praises of that too.
post #50 of 132
Rick are there any greys in your world or just black and white?

I don't recall saying anything about disregarding ANYTHING. I regard it all.

An open mind is a good thing.

Great thinkers hold multiple concepts in their minds at once, and don't feel obligated to make right and wrong decisions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
OK, then guys. Disregard what I said about the knee angulation stuff being a stepping stone in their teaching progression. Be my guest; knee angulate your turns, and horse the front of your boots till the cows come home. And please, do continue to tell the good folks here that structural alignment and through the foot balance is a load of crap. What a wonderful service you'll be providing.

Damn, too bad Mutt and Jeff didn't do a drill with 50-50 weighting, you could have been singing the praises of that too.
post #51 of 132
The source of my last line.

http://www.hbsp.harvard.edu/hbsp/hbo...cle&print=true

Brilliant leaders excel at integrative thinking. They can hold two opposing ideas in their minds at once. Then, rather than settling for choice A or B, they forge an innovative “third way” that contains elements of both but improves on each.

How to become an integrative thinker? Resist the simplicity and certainty that comes with conventional “either-or” thinking. Embrace the messiness and complexity of conflicting options. And emulate great leaders’ decision-making approach—looking beyond obvious considerations.

Your reward? Instead of making unattractive trade-offs, you generate a wealth of profitable solutions for your business.
post #52 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
Rick are there any greys in your world or just black and white?

I don't recall saying anything about disregarding ANYTHING. I regard it all.

An open mind is a good thing.

Great thinkers hold multiple concepts in their minds at once, and don't feel obligated to make right and wrong decisions.

There was gray in my first post, SMJ.

* Knee angulation has it's uses.
* Pole plants are helpful, but not necessarily necessary
* Fore pressure provides certain benefits, as does neutral

I'm not the one thinking in black and white around here. And I don't think Mutt and Jeff do either, much as some around here would like to interpret their thoughts that way.
post #53 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Nice! Well done, A-man...
Thanks! much appreciated!
post #54 of 132
Indeed there was Rick. Your most recent post kind of erased the grey-ness by claiming that you knew the video was only showing a middle step in their progression towards what you knew was really the "right" way.

None of us were arguing or imposing our concepts on anyone, nor suggesting that we should "horse the front of our boots." Somehow your tone is very alienating at times - being on a high horse, speaking of horses.

I'm sure you're a much better skier and instructor then I am, quite sure of that - and I'm sure there's a ton I (and most of us) could learn from you. But the way you say things often really turn many of us off.
post #55 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
The source of my last line.

http://www.hbsp.harvard.edu/hbsp/hbo...cle&print=true

Brilliant leaders excel at integrative thinking. They can hold two opposing ideas in their minds at once. Then, rather than settling for choice A or B, they forge an innovative “third way” that contains elements of both but improves on each.

How to become an integrative thinker? Resist the simplicity and certainty that comes with conventional “either-or” thinking. Embrace the messiness and complexity of conflicting options. And emulate great leaders’ decision-making approach—looking beyond obvious considerations.

Your reward? Instead of making unattractive trade-offs, you generate a wealth of profitable solutions for your business.
SMJ, thank you. These are some really well-stated (and referenced) thoughts, and reflect my approach to life, relationships, family, business, ...and skiing.

Great approach worth consideration by anyone...
post #56 of 132
SMJ, sorry if you find my presentation style a bit insensitive. After 5 years of posting here I admit my patience for kindly debating the basic and obvious has faded. So now I just tell it like it is,,, spell out reality in clear terms. If that intimidates or insults some, I just can't be bothered anymore. Too many here just pickin for a fight, and anxious to argue any idiotic position to the end of the earth. I don't have the energy to sort em out anymore. If you, or anyone, find something of value in what I have to say, take it, use it, and you're welcome. If the baggage and insecurity some are carrying won't allow it, well, their loss (ouuu, that sounded pompous, didn't it? Tough).
post #57 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
My father once said of deer hunting " the deer are behind you. They are keeping track of you instead of you keeping track of them" With that in mind I could fing them every time, Wise words.
Didn't want to let this one pass by unnoticed. Excellent, Pierre
post #58 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
SMJ, sorry if you find my presentation style a bit insensitive. After 5 years of posting here I admit my patience for kindly debating the basic and obvious has faded. So now I just tell it like it is,,, spell out reality in clear terms. If that intimidates or insults some, I just can't be bothered anymore. Too many here just pickin for a fight, and anxious to argue any idiotic position to the end of the earth. I don't have the energy to sort em out anymore. If you, or anyone, find something of value in what I have to say, take it, use it, and you're welcome. If the baggage and insecurity some are carrying won't allow it, well, their loss (ouuu, that sounded pompous, didn't it? Tough).
I thought I disagreed on some technical points. I really don't think my inability to see the basic and obvious, my vast quantities of baggage and insecurities, or that fact that I am idiotic and intimidated came into play. Sorry to upset you, and forgive me for thinking a world cup winner and world champion might have some valid ideas.
post #59 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDog
I thought I disagreed on some technical points. I really don't think my inability to see the basic and obvious, my vast quantities of baggage and insecurities, or that fact that I am idiotic and intimidated came into play. Sorry to upset you, and forgive me for thinking a world cup winner and world champion might have some valid ideas.
Newfy, I'd love to spend a heap a time discussing all this with you (not),,, trying to explain that it was just a short instructional video, and that they did not share with you the entirety of the technical world of skiing in it. But alas, I can't. I'm off to Park City in the morn to make many a turn. Some of them in fore/aft neutral,,, some not. Some with major knee angulation,,, and some with a long/strong outside leg. Some with a pole plant you'd love,,, and some with my hands in my pockets.

Oh, and sorry to hear about all those issues you're dealing with. Kudos to you for trying to not let them corrupt your thinking.

Happy trails, ya'll.
post #60 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
SMJ, sorry if you find my presentation style a bit insensitive. After 5 years of posting here I admit my patience for kindly debating the basic and obvious has faded. So now I just tell it like it is,,, spell out reality in clear terms. If that intimidates or insults some, I just can't be bothered anymore. Too many here just pickin for a fight, and anxious to argue any idiotic position to the end of the earth. I don't have the energy to sort em out anymore. If you, or anyone, find something of value in what I have to say, take it, use it, and you're welcome. If the baggage and insecurity some are carrying won't allow it, well, their loss (ouuu, that sounded pompous, didn't it? Tough).
After 3 years of posting here I've found my patience in many ways has increased. I've learned that spelling out what I think is reality in clear terms gets nowhere if I'm not open to considering other people's realities. That being insulting makes my points less heard, and that being bothered to try to find more effective ways to communicate has made me a better person both online and offline.
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