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Training results for Birds of Prey Downhill

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately, Aksel Lund Svindal had a bloody crash on the Golden Eagle jump and was taken to the hospital with leg lacerations and a bloody gash on his forehead.

http://web.wcsn.com/article/news.jsp...id=34032&dpre=

Didier Cuche and Steven Nyman were the fastest so far in training. Bode Miller was in the top ten at number 9. (Note, for those in the "what happened to Bode" thread--both those DH racers, along with Walchhofer and Guay were right with Bode in the first DH of the season at Lake Louise.)

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.ht...L&raceid=52649
post #2 of 28
All of Svindal's injuries are still not known. He has three small fractures in his face, one to his jaw and two to his nose. Of bigger concern is that he may have some damage to his internal organs due to the very long and deep cut he suffered on his left butt cheek. He is obviously not going to participate in any of the four upcoming WC races in BC.
post #3 of 28
So, who wants to tell me a full face helmet and some armor would not have avoided this unnecessary carnage?

Elsewhere he is said to have lost teeth and have already undergone surgery to repair his busted up face.

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/200...PORTS/71127040

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...h.php#end_copy
post #4 of 28
A few teeth and racing again versus Christopher Reeve and life in a wheelchair?

Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Send Bode a letter and ask him why he doesn't join you in the campaign for your right to wear that helmet?

You asked.

And yes ... fully aware that his was an accident on a horse and did not involve a helmet.
post #5 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
So, who wants to tell me a full face helmet and some armor would not have avoided this unnecessary carnage?

Elsewhere he is said to have lost teeth and have already undergone surgery to repair his busted up face.

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/200...PORTS/71127040

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...h.php#end_copy
I have to agree with Yuki on this one... a fullface would probably have broken his neck, unless of course it was kinda like a slalom one that breaks on impact in which case it would have been useless. Its not like asphalt it grabs.
post #6 of 28

Tragedy

I feel so bad for Askel after such a strong start. Even if he does come back in time to fight for the overall, the mental fight back will be a challenge for sure. I wish I could send him some Guiness or something.
post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptoboy View Post
I feel so bad for Askel after such a strong start. Even if he does come back in time to fight for the overall, the mental fight back will be a challenge for sure.

Although it's pretty amazing how quickly some ski racers come back from a bad crash. Three days after Hermann Maier's 70mph crash in the Nagano downhill he won the gold in Super-G, and three days after that, won the gold in GS--prompting Austrian colleague Stephan Eberharter, who'd won the overall that year, to say "I'm the best ski racer in the world. But Hermann Maier--he's from another planet."

Maier's crash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXvmvA-KN2M

I was even more impressed by Daron Rahlves a couple of years ago. He had a completely insane endo crash in a GS race, and two weeks later, still sore, came back to take second at Kitzbuehl in Super-G.

Rahlves' crash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jFuNHyyIHU

I think a lot of top WC ski racers are really tough, mentally. Of course, if there are internal injuries, that's beyond just the mental part. And even if it's just the mental part, that's non trivial. I got hit a few years ago by an out of control skier when I was stopped, and was knocked unconscious. I thought it would be no big deal, but I was paranoid about getting hit for a while after the incident.

Best wishes to Aksel for a speedy recovery. And best wishes for Bode and the USST to rip this week in BC.
post #8 of 28
It is sad, especially considering how well he was doing. But his injuries are pretty serious, I highly doubt he will return for this season.
post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
A few teeth and racing again versus Christopher Reeve and life in a wheelchair?

Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Send Bode a letter and ask him why he doesn't join you in the campaign for your right to wear that helmet?

You asked.

And yes ... fully aware that his was an accident on a horse and did not involve a helmet.
I know the anti-fullface regalea would love to believe this but so far the information presented say otherwise:
(and with some body armor his ass cheek would not be fileted right now).


"He arrived at the jump already back and in trouble," said Austrian downhill coach Walter Gradwohl, who saw it happen. "His hands were back behind his boots. He landed on his neck and head. Gradwohl said he couldn't be sure, but that he suspected Svindal broke the bones in his face when his head whipped forward into his knees. "
post #10 of 28

He'll be back this season...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
It is sad, especially considering how well he was doing. But his injuries are pretty serious, I highly doubt he will return for this season.
...it just ain't gonna be for a while. But he's a tough squarehead, just like yours truly. Let's not forget, he won the overall WC last year after breaking two ribs early in the season...
post #11 of 28
Richie; this is the last time I intend to go down this road but that said, has it hit you yet that if the safety of the real pros, you know the FIS, WC guys and gals was being compromised they would be the first line bucking the changes. They are quite vocal anytime the regs change and to the best of my memory this isn't an issue among those with the most on the line.

It's like you are Don Quixote charging at windmills on this one.

Maybe I'm wrong in connecting some dots regardng your motivation, since elemental and simple physics and logic fail, but ...... as a professional model ... and I can respect that since that's how you make some of your living in part ... is going to suffer because you take out a few teeth or get some wicked gate rash ... so be it, it's part of the game and the game isn't going to change because of you or the fact that someone sold you a helmet that suits your needs.
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
Richie; this is the last time I intend to go down this road but that said, has it hit you yet that if the safety of the real pros, you know the FIS, WC guys and gals was being compromised they would be the first line bucking the changes. They are quite vocal anytime the regs change and to the best of my memory this isn't an issue among those with the most on the line.

It's like you are Don Quixote charging at windmills on this one.

Maybe I'm wrong in connecting some dots regardng your motivation, since elemental and simple physics and logic fail, but ...... as a professional model ... and I can respect that since that's how you make some of your living in part ... is going to suffer because you take out a few teeth or get some wicked gate rash ... so be it, it's part of the game and the game isn't going to change because of you or the fact that someone sold you a helmet that suits your needs.
Nope...by your reasoning, then ski racing would never have progressed to what it is now, since the governing body that oversees the safety is what set the bench mark and then modifies it on a yearly basis. If what you say is true then the first rules that they ever lay down whenever the FIS was formed, would never have to be changed....ever. They are far from infallible and there are clear deficiencies in the amount of safety offered to competitors.

If another ski racer smashes his face this year...you will see changes (well not really changes, there is nothing to change other than mind set, since I already prove there is no rule, nor supporting evidence published anywhere, that are contra full-face for ski racing, not even the officials could bring it up).
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
If another ski racer smashes his face this year...you will see changes (well not really changes, there is nothing to change other than mind set, since I already prove there is no rule, nor supporting evidence published anywhere, that are contra full-face for ski racing, not even the officials could bring it up).
No one changed after Hans Grugger took himself out at Bormio, biting his tongue off in the process...

No one changed after the Deniraz crash in Are...

I'm sure people would have figured out something by now and like I said earlier its not like concrete or tarmac its snow, it grabs and at 130-140 it doesn't forgive.
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAS29 View Post
No one changed after Hans Grugger took himself out at Bormio, biting his tongue off in the process...

No one changed after the Deniraz crash in Are...

I'm sure people would have figured out something by now and like I said earlier its not like concrete or tarmac its snow, it grabs and at 130-140 it doesn't forgive.
Crashes over a course of several years are a freak thing, if they occur in the same year, its very different.

They would figure it out? Really. So why did it take until 2007 for helmets to finally be enforced for all alpine ski and snowboard events? It took them that long to realize that helmets increase safety?????

http://www.snowsportgb.com/docs/poli...EGULATIONS.pdf

As far as grabbing...yeah those motocross racers jumping 40' in the air with a 400lb bike at 50mph are snapping necks all day long, same goes for the snowmobile racers :

Where do you people get this stuff from.....I am awestruck at the (no offense intended) amount of ignorance (of so many) about helmet safety, or safety and rules in sports in general.
post #15 of 28
And Richie .... your history and association with ski racing go back how long?
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
And Richie .... your history and association with ski racing go back how long?
Luckily humanity's present generation need not relive all of our forefather's experiences to learn by them. Records my friend, even if I was a non skier, never raced, never even interested in racing, or skiing, looking at this objectively for the safety of a human being the facts are clear; nothing supporting your argument, not a shred. While there may not be that many facial reconstructions and oral reconstruction surgeries performed due to skiing accidents...there isnt one single case of a broken neck due to a full face helmet.

And how many World Cup's have you qualified for? When were you in the FIS congress? When was it you worked for SNELL or ASTM? Its irrelevant, you can cite rules and tests and research papers as well as I can I am sure, yet you have failed to do so, because there simply are none...at least not to support your argument.

Edit: I have been pondering what reason could the FIS have to ban full face helmets (if in fact there is some unwritten rule that states this). The only thing I can think of is marketing. Ski racing is a business, they need human figures, real humans that others can relate to and grow attatched to in order for viewers to form an association with its athletes and come see more races, sell more tickets endorse more products, sell more gear, etc. A bunch of Storm Troopers blasting down the hill...might as well get a robot squadron and do away with all the risks altogether. Look at NASCAR, only when they made the driver's the stars, not the cars, did it take off like it did. I would wager that there are more non-gear-head NASCAR fans than gear-head fans. With a full face helemt view of the skier is greatly obstructed, marketing potential fan skier association is greatly reduced. When was the last time a really ugly dude or girl was a superstar? Rarely happens.

Similarly, many years ago, a new more efficient and safer aerodynamic package was developed for Formula 1 whereby a single large wing was located centrally on the car, nearly directly above the driver. This design ensured even downforce distribution, safer location for the wing, and no need for two wings. The public thought it was so ugly that fan base began to drop, less race attendees, less money made. The car was outlawed on that basis; a car has to look good as well as perform well, because if it doesnt the powers that be lose where it matters most, their pockets.

In summary, its all about giving the fans what they want to see: real people, really risking their lives and being able to see their faces as they take on the challenge and waving to the crowds at the finish line. So changes are made only when things get rediculous, sadly this applies to just about every sport.
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
And how many World Cup's have you qualified for? When were you in the FIS congress? When was it you worked for SNELL or ASTM? Its irrelevant, you can cite rules and tests and research papers as well as I can I am sure, yet you have failed to do so, because there simply are none...at least not to support your argument.
: the harald harb of helmets:

give it up yuk's you have a zealot on your hands:
post #18 of 28
I don't see how wearing a full face helmet is going to provide more protection for a World Cup skier traveling at insane speeds down an icy race course. Studies I have read show that any helmet, full face or otherwise, is virtually useless at speeds greater than 30 mph. They do a great job reducing minor facial injuries at slower speeds. See http://www.ski-injury.com/helmet.htm
post #19 of 28
An eastern European web site reported that Svindals injuries were quite serious. A broken nose, deep facial cuts, damaged adams apple, 13 stitches to close a deep laceration to his thigh and 4-5 missing teeth. Svindal is in stable condition but will need reconstructive surgery to his face. Apparently he will miss the remainder of the 07-08 season.
post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nix View Post
An eastern European web site reported that Svindals injuries were quite serious. A broken nose, deep facial cuts, damaged adams apple, 13 stitches to close a deep laceration to his thigh and 4-5 missing teeth. Svindal is in stable condition but will need reconstructive surgery to his face. Apparently he will miss the remainder of the 07-08 season.
That's really horrible.



Good luck to him and I hope he's back a strong as ever next year.
post #21 of 28
Thats horrible... But Ski racers are a tough bunch and mark my words he will come back and thrill the alpine world! When I met him, I was amazed by the dedication that he puts out. Best of luck to Aksel and Coincidentally to Richard Long a canadian junior skier who crashed at A basin 2 weeks ago.
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by blokhead View Post
I don't see how wearing a full face helmet is going to provide more protection for a World Cup skier traveling at insane speeds down an icy race course. Studies I have read show that any helmet, full face or otherwise, is virtually useless at speeds greater than 30 mph. They do a great job reducing minor facial injuries at slower speeds. See http://www.ski-injury.com/helmet.htm
Very true, this goes for even SNELL and DOT certified helmets. But it is rare for a person's head to smash against an object straight on, its nearly always a glancing blow. Svindal, had he been wearing a full face helmet and some body armor, like what I use, would be skiing tomorrow. His knees would not have smashed his face and his sharp skis would not have fileted his ass.
post #23 of 28
You have crashed in the same manner on the same course, in the same conditions wearing body armor and a full face helmet. Is that how you can be so confident?:
post #24 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nix View Post
An eastern European web site reported that Svindals injuries were quite serious. A broken nose, deep facial cuts, damaged adams apple, 13 stitches to close a deep laceration to his thigh and 4-5 missing teeth. Svindal is in stable condition but will need reconstructive surgery to his face. Apparently he will miss the remainder of the 07-08 season.
Skiracing.com (with credit to an AP stringer) quotes the Norwegian team doctor and head coach as follows:

Svindal underwent four hours of surgery to repair broken bones in his face and a deep laceration to his buttocks and groin, Norway's team doctor Ola Ronsen said. He is expected to remain hospitalized for at least another three to five days.
Svindal broke his nose and his cheek bones in two places as well as suffered a 15-centimeter (6-inch) cut to his rear and groin area when he crashed during downhill training Tuesday. He also chipped a front tooth.
''He's out for months, not weeks,'' Ronsen said. ''There are some obstacles in the way. The cut is deep and is of concern that it could get infected or open up if he puts too much pressure on it.''
The 24-year-old Norwegian will need at least three weeks without any physical training or exercise to allow the wound to heal, Ronsen said. Only then will doctors be able to assess when he might resume training.
''He's really beaten up but pretty positive,'' Norwegian head coach Marius Arnesen said.

Other Web sites are reporting that he's still in the intensive care unit for observation. Best wishes for a speedy and compete recovery to a great skier.

SfDean.
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j View Post
You have crashed in the same manner on the same course, in the same conditions wearing body armor and a full face helmet. Is that how you can be so confident?:
Thats a rather silly rebuttal.

Uh, no but I dont need to jump out a plane without a parachute to know that if I do chances of survival are nill. I dont need to crash my car to know that a seat belt and airbags will help me if I do....I could go on.

Have you broken your neck or know anyone who has due to a full face helmet while skiing? So tell, since you are so confident as well. Better yet show me one single test, study, statistic, illustration, anything, teach me the wrongs of my ways.
post #26 of 28
About Svindal's return, he is not out for the season, they are saying for the rest of the year. He will miss at best, 10 to 11 WC races. This from my cousin who is the Norwegian ski team doctor and is with Aksel in the Vail hospital. He will need total rest for three weeks to heal the deep wound, then he can resume some training, but no skiing. Aksel is in good spirits, according to him: "**** happens, and this is a risky sport".

Here is a video link http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/2007/11/28/519615.html
post #27 of 28

I think I found the video!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EHTuEKWKs5o

Ouch :
post #28 of 28
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