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Killington (first day out)

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Went to Killington today with a friend and one of his GF's, It was mine and her's first ski day of the season, my friends' second. Relatively warm, low to mid 30's. Conditions were not bad for We skied mostly the easier trails. By mid day a lot of, ice and push piles. We even tried the bumps . had a good time.

Kevin
post #2 of 26
How much of the mountain was open? How crowded was it and how much was a pass?
post #3 of 26
not much was open, id go to mt snow.
post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by northeasterner View Post
How much of the mountain was open? How crowded was it and how much was a pass?
Not much open, no crowds $60.

We went there because my friend has a seasons pass, and has a limited budget.
post #5 of 26
Skied there on Saturday. It was cold in the morning, but for Late Nov the conditions were fine. There was a good top layer (thanks to the snow guns) from about 8:30am to about 2pm. Patrol was dropping ropes on a few trails as the day went on but still had to ski through the snowguns, stopping more then I would have liked to, to clean off the goggles.
Overall, I say they did a good job opening what they could by Saturday. I talked to one of those "Mountain Ambassadors", who told me that Killington is trying to open 100% of the mountain by Dec 15th.
They have got alot of work to do.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by <><> View Post
Skied there on Saturday. It was cold in the morning, but for Late Nov the conditions were fine. There was a good top layer (thanks to the snow guns) from about 8:30am to about 2pm. Patrol was dropping ropes on a few trails as the day went on but still had to ski through the snowguns, stopping more then I would have liked to, to clean off the goggles.
Overall, I say they did a good job opening what they could by Saturday. I talked to one of those "Mountain Ambassadors", who told me that Killington is trying to open 100% of the mountain by Dec 15th.
They have got alot of work to do.
100% open? That just ain't true. Bear Mountain isn't even scheduled to be open until the day after Christmas. The schedule is to have Snowshed (and I guess Rams Head) operating on December 15th. ...sooner if they get sustained cold and some natural snow help though the Snowshed base lodge is being worked on at the moment. The plan is to get everything open you can see from the Killington base lodge ASAP. That includes Downdraft, Double Dipper, and Ovation. With the predicted cold weather, the next two weekends should be very nice.

For a Thanksgiving with no natural snow assist, it was the best I can remember in 25+ years. Killington has gone back to the pre-ASC strategy of offering terrain for advanced skiers. When ASC operated the place, they squandered snowmaking capacity blowing Rams Head and Snowshed plus all the trails needed to interconnect them with the rest of the mountain. That terrain invariably melted out.

For advanced skiers, the amount of terrain available by Thanksgiving Sunday was pretty impressive given that it had thawed on Wednesday and Thursday. Superstar top to bottom. Downdraft headwall to Cascade off the K1. East Fall. Highline. Mouse Trap. Skyelark top to bottom. Lower Bittersweet. Cascade on Saturday morning was the best I'd ever seen it on a non-powder day. Nice velvet whales produced by dry snow guns in single digit temperatures. I did six laps first thing in the morning. Thursday was great spring skiing. The rest of the weekend, you just followed the snow guns and had a big grin on your face.

It wasn't crowded. On Saturday, the main parking lot and the Vale lot were full with cars halfway down the access road. In other years, Snowshed and Rams Head lots would have been full with cars all the way down the road to below Rams Head. I never hit a significant liftline. I rarely had that Killington "run down like a dog" feeling. I had no problem finding a seat in the bar on Saturday and the lodge was pretty empty the other days. A $60 day ticket, no novice terrain, and a $1000 non-blackout season pass did the trick.

If you were an intermediate, you probably weren't all that happy. The trail pod off The Glades ^h^h^h^h Northridge triple didn't get resurfaced and was pretty slick by mid-morning. Ditto the terrain on Snowdon like Chute and Bunny Buster. If you were a novice or had little kids doing 'pizza' and 'french fries', you were pretty much banished to a very icy and busy Great Northern descent down from the K1 or the two Snowdon lifts. I saw a few never-never snowboarders but the overall yahoo factor was quite low.

This is my first epicski post in a number of years. I've been elsewhere...
post #7 of 26
Good to have you back Geoff, please stay around.
post #8 of 26
I started off the season on Sat and spent pretty much the entire day on Cascade which was pretty damn good given the early season. They had just blown a lot of snow onto that trail and there was mucho nice soft bumps all day. The other trails were a bit skiied off but for the time of the year and lack of snow, it was a good day of skiing.
post #9 of 26
I didn't believe what the Mountain Ambassador told me either. I think they wanted to have all the peaks open by the 15th. I agree with you that this was the best Nov Skiing I've done in many years. Glad to see they were only (still too much) but $60.00 and not full price.
post #10 of 26

Holly Shiznik

wait a minute 60$ is NOT full price at kton ?

that's unreal, sorry I like killington but it's not worth anything over 60$. 60$ on a weekend in mid season maybe, not in early season, that's unreal..


Squaw is 69$
Heavenly is 70$

Hell Jackson Hole is 72$

60$ for early season for kton is a rip..

but regardless I'm happy for you that you got out there...


I didn't mean to jack your post.. that was just an unreal price
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremity View Post
wait a minute 60$ is NOT full price at kton ?

that's unreal, sorry I like killington but it's not worth anything over 60$. 60$ on a weekend in mid season maybe, not in early season, that's unreal..


Squaw is 69$
Heavenly is 70$

Hell Jackson Hole is 72$

60$ for early season for kton is a rip..

but regardless I'm happy for you that you got out there...


I didn't mean to jack your post.. that was just an unreal price

You just listed a bunch of ski resorts that don't have to spend millions of dollars every season making snow. Those places also don't have Vermont's draconian Act 68 property tax law where the commercial tax rate is north of 2% of assessed value. Operating a ski resort in Vermont ain't cheap and there would be no skiing at all if resorts couldn't charge $70-$80 for a lift ticket.
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The plan is to get everything open you can see from the Killington base lodge ASAP. That includes Downdraft, Double Dipper, and Ovation.
Wow. Maybe the move upmarket really is a good thing. The old regime seemed to pretend Downdraft and Ovation didn't exist.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
You just listed a bunch of ski resorts that don't have to spend millions of dollars every season making snow. Those places also don't have Vermont's draconian Act 68 property tax law where the commercial tax rate is north of 2% of assessed value. Operating a ski resort in Vermont ain't cheap and there would be no skiing at all if resorts couldn't charge $70-$80 for a lift ticket.

As a comsumer why do I care about anything you mentioned ? sorry but it's the same product. Why would I spend 150$ on gas to get to vermont for 20$ more per day to ski when i can spend the same money on a plane ticket to denver ?

This isn't russia, competion is what drives prices in the market. and as far as your snow making comment, doesn't vermot claim to get like 300 inches a year of natural snow ? last time I checked that about equal with colorado.. so that's not a factor..

And lets take your 2% tax into consideration.. they are charging way more than 2% more per ticket.. so that dosen't add up either.

Sorry but this is like buying a ford instead of a lexus at the same price, and claiming that it's ok because Ford has to pay employee benifits...
post #14 of 26
I think the direct competition between ski areas in different geographical regions is pretty insignificant for day tickets. It might start to matter for ski weeks, but there differences in lodging & travel & car rental/shuttle add up to more than the skiing itself. And high as Killington prices are, they are in the same neighborhood as the other upper tier Northeast areas. Their early season discount might be a little less generous, but not hugely so.

Cost justification for pricing levels does matter, because consumers are not purely rational creatures. In a purely competitive universe, accusations of "price gouging" would not even be a sensible concept. If the customer feels he is getting ripped off, that is bad for future business. It also matters to head off conspiracy theorists (price fixing) and the urge to regulate.

And I'm sure the claim that every GM car includes $2000 of retiree health care does affect some peoples decisions.
post #15 of 26
[quote=Xtremity;810732]As a comsumer why do I care about anything you mentioned ? sorry but it's the same product. Why would I spend 150$ on gas to get to vermont for 20$ more per day to ski when i can spend the same money on a plane ticket to denver ?

That's ~ 50 gallons of gas which would get you 1,000 miles @ 20 mpg. Most people aren't travelling that far to get to K'ton. Plus you can take a couple of buddies for that same price. Also, add in the cost of renting a car in COlorado, airport parking costs of ~ $15/day, gas spent going to the airport, and the flight and travel to airport time. It's not really comparable when you add in all of those factors.
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremity View Post
As a comsumer why do I care about anything you mentioned ? sorry but it's the same product. Why would I spend 150$ on gas to get to vermont for 20$ more per day to ski when i can spend the same money on a plane ticket to denver ?

This isn't russia, competion is what drives prices in the market. and as far as your snow making comment, doesn't vermot claim to get like 300 inches a year of natural snow ? last time I checked that about equal with colorado.. so that's not a factor..

And lets take your 2% tax into consideration.. they are charging way more than 2% more per ticket.. so that dosen't add up either.

Sorry but this is like buying a ford instead of a lexus at the same price, and claiming that it's ok because Ford has to pay employee benifits...

Given your completely off-the-wall string of statements here, it's pointless to even engage in a discussion. Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living?
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Given your completely off-the-wall string of statements here, it's pointless to even engage in a discussion. Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living?
I'm a Systems Administrator for a Biometrics Company. To simplify it for you I take care of all the Servers/routers/Firewalls/Computers etc. in my Company.

Not sure why you asked, since it's not relevant to the conversation.



Anywway, sure some of my statements were "off the wall" as you put it. But saying that I as a skier should care that a ski resort is charging out the a$* because of their taxes is just as "off the wall" in my eyes..

using your argument New Jersey resorts should be charging 500$ a ticket.. hahaha...
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
I think the direct competition between ski areas in different geographical regions is pretty insignificant for day tickets. It might start to matter for ski weeks, but there differences in lodging & travel & car rental/shuttle add up to more than the skiing itself. And high as Killington prices are, they are in the same neighborhood as the other upper tier Northeast areas. Their early season discount might be a little less generous, but not hugely so.

Cost justification for pricing levels does matter, because consumers are not purely rational creatures. In a purely competitive universe, accusations of "price gouging" would not even be a sensible concept. If the customer feels he is getting ripped off, that is bad for future business. It also matters to head off conspiracy theorists (price fixing) and the urge to regulate.

And I'm sure the claim that every GM car includes $2000 of retiree health care does affect some peoples decisions.
I see your point, and I will admit that I'm not familiar with the prices of ski lift tickets of other VT resorts.. But if they are similar to KTON then obviously my point is Mute. I'll also Point out that I actually Like Killington, and have nothing against the resort at all. I simply think 60$ in November ANYWHERE in the east is outrageous...

[quote=northeasterner;810782]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremity View Post
As a comsumer why do I care about anything you mentioned ? sorry but it's the same product. Why would I spend 150$ on gas to get to vermont for 20$ more per day to ski when i can spend the same money on a plane ticket to denver ?

That's ~ 50 gallons of gas which would get you 1,000 miles @ 20 mpg. Most people aren't travelling that far to get to K'ton. Plus you can take a couple of buddies for that same price. Also, add in the cost of renting a car in COlorado, airport parking costs of ~ $15/day, gas spent going to the airport, and the flight and travel to airport time. It's not really comparable when you add in all of those factors.

Oh yeah, your 1000% right...if I'm looking to not spend alot and I'm going with friends of course KTON is cheaper.. but If I'm traveling alone then it's debatable..especially with flight+lodging packages..

I can book a trip To jackson INCLUDING Stay, Flight, and Lifttickets for an entire week for 750$ (I'm serious that's what I'm paying).

If I go to Kton it might be a tiny bit cheaper sure, but by what 100$ ?? is that worth it over Jackson Hole ?

EDIT: I just priced the exact same week same # of people same type of stay It came out to be 700$ each instead of 750$..

You mean to tell me that for 50$ you'd choose KTON over Jackson Hole for a week ?? come on...

and as I stated above, remember I'm really complaining about the price being 60$ for skiing in the east in NOVEMBER with no snow..

I just get carryed away in my arguments at times... hehe:
post #19 of 26
ANIT>>

I just wanted to say sorry for jacking your post.. I didn't mean to.. I should have known better..
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremity

I can book a trip To jackson INCLUDING Stay, Flight, and Lifttickets for an entire week for 750$ (I'm serious that's what I'm paying).

If I go to Kton it might be a tiny bit cheaper sure, but by what 100$ ?? is that worth it over Jackson Hole ?

EDIT: I just priced the exact same week same # of people same type of stay It came out to be 700$ each instead of 750$..

You mean to tell me that for 50$ you'd choose KTON over Jackson Hole for a week ?? come on...

and as I stated above, remember I'm really complaining about the price being 60$ for skiing in the east in NOVEMBER with no snow..

I just get carryed away in my arguments at times... hehe:
Does somebody want to explain to this Einstein the different roles served by a drive-to eastern weekend ski area versus a western destination resort? If I limited my skiing to 1-week trips to Jackson Hole, I'd log maybe 14 days of skiing per year instead of 60.
post #21 of 26
I think the fact that Killington can charge $60 early season or what ever price regular season is a simple function of the fact that the resort is a 5 hr. or so drive for tens of thousnads of skiers (or more) that want to ski on a regular basis and like the resort. Killington has a high demand for their product and can get this price without compromising ticket sales.

Whether its "worth it" becomes an individual determination. Doing Jackson for $750 certainly is worth it!
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Does somebody want to explain to this Einstein the different roles served by a drive-to eastern weekend ski area versus a western destination resort? If I limited my skiing to 1-week trips to Jackson Hole, I'd log maybe 14 days of skiing per year instead of 60.
Why do you insist on attempting to insult me ? This is the second attempt at you trying to undermine my intelligence (first one was asking me what I do for a living, now calling me eistein in a sarcastic manner). I haven't said one negative comment towards you bud, please have the same respect back. We're just having a sane argument, no need to get all pissy..

Anyway, I agree with you. For a weekend Trip of course drive-to destinations are cheaper. As I mentioned in my above posts last night I was simply refering to the price of a ticket for early season..60$ is steep for a handfull of trails..You can't deny that..

Also, I never said that You can't do both..I have nothing against Kton, I think It's a great mountain.It's Just over Priced..ALL YEAR COUNTRY WIDE

Since you seem so hung up on my Jackson Hole comparison I'll bring it local..and compare Prices

KILLINGTON: $76
JAY PEEK: $62
SUGARBUSH:$69
SMUGGS: $60
Stratton: $69

ON AVERAGE that makes Killington $11 more per ticket

If you can't grasp this let me know I'll be glad to write a formula for you..since you know I am Eistein and all...

I think We're done here..
post #23 of 26
not quite...
one more bizarre feature of market pricing -- For a lot of New England, I can get a round trip bus + lift ticket for the same price as a lift ticket at the walk-up window. They must be giving the bus companies one heck of a bulk discount.
post #24 of 26

to the slowplower from flor-ida:

I think Xtremity just hasn't gotten on snow yet. and just to point out a few things.........

all of those "eastern resorts" that you mention, yea, they dont make much snow which is what COSTS MONEY. you might as well add magic and mrg to your list since that seems to be the theme.

the last time i checked, Stratton was much more than $69

lastly, how and why do you even try to compare killington to jackson? do you live in florida??? if so, then yes it would make more sense to go to jackson.

FYI: this is why you buy a season pass
post #25 of 26
Ski prices are driven by the market. When I lived in the east I quit skiing because for me it wasn't worth it anymore. Now I live in Jackson and it is. You can vote with your business. If people don't go the prices will drop. If they have to drop below the profit threshold the business goes under. I don't believe that ski areas make much money with lift tickets. The money is in the Real Estate, Dining, and Retail. Skiing is just the lure. BTW early season price at Targhee today was $49. Worth every penny with the good snow we had. See TR for details.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastsLoPeS View Post
.........

all of those "eastern resorts" that you mention, yea, they dont make much snow which is what COSTS MONEY. you might as well add magic and mrg to your list since that seems to be the theme.
But then places like Magic and MRG are not open as many days per season and therefore have less time to collect what profits there are. Snow making cost a lot of money. Not being open is costly in a different way.
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