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Realism in ski hill etiquette (just plain getting along)

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
Skiing has been changing a lot over the past 20 years, with off-piste getting big, fast chairs making crowded slopes, high speeds as a new norm.

What do you think are some methods and practices that help skiers to share the mountain?

I will offer one as a start:

On mountain access runs (like highways to get from one location to another, and run-outs to the lift, skiers could benefit from having an awareness of how that part of the mountain works, as in lines, lanes or passage ways.

signal you intentions, with a nod of the head, a flick of the elbow, a point of the pole, a hand signal, if you are crossing the flow.

If you ski on the side of the run, don't make your turns at the extreme edge of the run; leave a bail out lane for a person to ski next to you on the outside.

Look up the fall line before beginning to ski in the middle of a run. You, as the down-the-hill skier may have the right of way, but practically speaking, the person up the hill is already skiing and sees the slope as one set of turns.

If you ski with a micro-little-one, always ski behind that child, making your presence very clearly evident.
post #2 of 45
how bout u just move the f over
post #3 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
signal you intentions, with a nod of the head, a flick of the elbow, a point of the pole, a hand signal, if you are crossing the flow.
Um, no. Sure, lets wave arms/poles/ourselves around before we make a turn. It's not like that's going to throw off someone's balance or cause further confusion. Or maybe they'll just impale someone with the pole. How about we put signal lights into our $600 ski jackets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

If you ski on the side of the run, don't make your turns at the extreme edge of the run; leave a bail out lane for a person to ski next to you on the outside.
This I really don't get. First off, if someone needs a "bail out lane" I would prefer that it not be near me. Second, if they are out of control, what makes you think that they are going to be able to aim for a "bail out lane"? Third, if they are in trouble, aiming for the edge of the trail is probably the worst thing for them to be doing.

I will give you credit for the use of paragraphs though. Nice improvement over previous posts.
post #4 of 45
I think most problems at resorts can be solved with one simple rule - be aware that there are other people around you. Most stupid/dangerous behavior I see at resorts is a direct result of somebody acting like they're the only one on the hill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
How about we put signal lights into our $600 ski jackets?
Somebody makes a $600 jacket? Why?? What - does it have 24 karat gold zippers or something?
post #5 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Somebody makes a $600 jacket? Why?? What - does it have 24 karat gold zippers or something?
I figured that was a conservative estimate of some peoples expenses.

http://www.gorsuchltd.com/CatalogItem.aspx?ID=4484
post #6 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
I think most problems at resorts can be solved with one simple rule - be aware that there are other people around you. Most stupid/dangerous behavior I see at resorts is a direct result of somebody acting like they're the only one on the hill.



Somebody makes a $600 jacket? Why?? What - does it have 24 karat gold zippers or something?
There was this guy yesterdeay that followed the Instructors onto the lifts before opening bell with a great amount of confidence I might add. He got scolded severly by a female lift op and sent to the back of the line.
post #7 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
This I really don't get. First off, if someone needs a "bail out lane" I would prefer that it not be near me. Second, if they are out of control, what makes you think that they are going to be able to aim for a "bail out lane"? Third, if they are in trouble, aiming for the edge of the trail is probably the worst thing for them to be doing.
I took this to simply mean don't ski like a moron when you're on the edge of a run. A lot of times I'll ski along the edge of a run because all the idiots are in the middle making these cute, wide turns. On the edge of the run you can just point it.. it's only an issue when one of those idiots in the middle decides they're going to swoop in front of you. I don't need a 'bailout' lane because I'm falling, but because they're leaving me nowhere else to go except the trees.

I dunno, that list is just a bunch of common sense. You might as well add: don't stop under a roller.
post #8 of 45
I know - let's just make more rules!! People will be people and a-holes will be a-holes. Nothing here at Epic will change that. :

This thread isn't worth the bandwidth it's about to waste.
post #9 of 45
Don't close the bar on the lift until everyone has sat down. Often women with younger children tend to slam the bar closed as soon as the child sits down. I got dragged by the lift last year when that happend. I was getting on the high speed quad at Mardis Gras at Holiday Vaklley when the lady with her daughter slammed the bar on my shoulder really hard as I was half-seated. I fell forward and was caught on the chair by my armpits and started sliding and was dragged about 10 feet before they shut the lift off.
post #10 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
I figured that was a conservative estimate of some peoples expenses.

http://www.gorsuchltd.com/CatalogItem.aspx?ID=4484
Those are pretty expensive jackets. I like this one

http://www.gorsuchltd.com/dbimages/i...umber=213.3342
post #11 of 45
In each of your opinions which US area (northwest, West (tahoe-to-mamoth), Utah and Idaho ho, with Montana, Rockies, New England, New yurk, NJ & Penn.) do you believe has the most rude skiers (line cutting, spitting off the chair lift (I've seen that...unfortunately), fast skiing through crowds, etc.)?
post #12 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
I figured that was a conservative estimate of some peoples expenses.

http://www.gorsuchltd.com/CatalogItem.aspx?ID=4484
Is that in Deutch Marks or Kroner or something? Who besides a very wealthy gaper would buy such a monstrosity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
I know - let's just make more rules!! People will be people and a-holes will be a-holes. Nothing here at Epic will change that. :

This thread isn't worth the bandwidth it's about to waste.
I don't think anybody want's to "make more rules", just allert some to the unwritten common sense rules that have already exsisted for decades.

As far as the "bailout lane" is concerned, I believe Davluri was referring to relatively flat cat tracks and "acess runs". The Supreme access at Alta is a good example. It's usually full of gapers making big slow turns all over the place. Little do they realise that in 100 feet or so the run not only completely flattens out, but actually starts going uphill. Because they didn't carry any speed, they end up hiking for a few hundred yards. It doesn't really bother me - I think it's funny to see them huffing and puffing dragging thier skis. The best thing in this kind of situation (or on any groomer frequented by gaperswarms) is to carry as much speed as possible so as to minimise your contact with them. They have no idea you're there anyway and by the time they figure it out you're a few hundred yards downhill. They go on thier merry way and so do you. Everyone's happy.
post #13 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Is that in Deutch Marks or Kroner or something? Who besides a very wealthy gaper would buy such a monstrosity?
:

Unfortunately, that does appear to be US dollars. If you click on the Store Locations link, all stores are in Colorado.

Crazy, isn't it?
post #14 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
I don't think anybody want's to "make more rules", just allert some to the unwritten common sense rules that have already exsisted for decades.
Odds are if they are here, they already "know the rules". Preaching to the choir.

BTW - common sense is no longer expected. Thank you, trial lawyers.
post #15 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
Odds are if they are here, they already "know the rules". Preaching to the choir.
Oh, I beg to differ. I've heard plenty of responses to many of these common sense type threads along the lines of "I pay a lot of money to go on vacation - I'll do whatever I want!". Posting on some message board doesn't make you a totally aware genius or anything.
post #16 of 45
Thread Starter 

word of mouth

I believe that a good idea will spread and that a forum like this is a good place to start an idea.

Also, (re: preaching to the choir) many Bears are just starting skiing, (see gear discussions as evidence of this), and these starting skiers are more enthusiastic about learning the ways of skiing than you crusty veterans. Provided with insight, they will spread the word.

The bail out lane is hard to explain: a slow skier on a long fast road presents a block to skiers. they will be passed on both sides by people assuming that they will hold their line. If they suddenly change their line, a passing skier will have to make a radical adjustment. (Obviously, I know, but hear me out.) Any good skier can make the pass on the edge of the run, if a slower skier is not turning all the way to the edge. (see car racers blocking by hugging the lower line). Slower skiers are not aware of implicit lanes, and the very edge of the run as a shoulder lane (think freeways) for passing. Slower skiers think they are doing a good thing by skiing on the edge, and they almost are, especially since they are aware of the traffic issue and making an effort to assist in organizing themselves with respect to faster skiers. I am simply trying to help them refine their technique.

This is a minor point. But if it became common knowledge, the access runs, catwalks, roads would be much faster with less likelihood of collisions.

This is the antithesis of making more rules. It is trying to change the rule of go slow on roads and catwalks, and still be safe, and still get back to the lift in minimum time.

Signaling
? a no brainer, see cycling in a pack, or the communication between climbers.

Paragraphs and long posts, note: I'm 60 f'ing years old and this sound bite form of writing is still foreign to me, but I am trying to get it.
post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
The bail out lane is hard to explain: a slow skier on a long fast road presents a block to skiers. they will be passed on both sides by people assuming that they will hold their line. If they suddenly change their line, a passing skier will have to make a radical adjustment. (Obviously, I know, but hear me out.) Any good skier can make the pass on the edge of the run, if a slower skier is not turning all the way to the edge. (see car racers blocking by hugging the lower line). Slower skiers are not aware of implicit lanes, and the very edge of the run as a shoulder lane (think freeways) for passing. Slower skiers think they are doing a good thing by skiing on the edge, and they almost are, especially since they are aware of the traffic issue and making an effort to assist in organizing themselves with respect to faster skiers. I am simply trying to help them refine their technique.
Ok, I see what you are talking about now. To me, the term "bail out" made it sound like a lane for someone out of control (not able to stop/turn) to ditch. You are suggesting a passing lane. In the first post, it seemed directed at people skiing exclusively on the edge of the trail, not turning across.

I tend to ski on the sides to avoid the wide turning skiers in the middle, so leaving space to my left/right made no sense.

The better "Rule" would be for a downhill skier to not change lines (cut across the trail) without checking that the uphill is clear.
post #18 of 45

It's already in writing

if everyone followed the Skier Safety Act then this discussion would become superfluous...

...it already is IMO.

a bail out lane??? That is a slap in the face to the right of the downhill skier. If the uphill skier can't pass the downhill skier safely then just imagine the havoc a bail out lane would reek. The falacy of the bail out lane logic is the assumption that you are the fastest skier and everyone else is slower than you. What if you are passing a slower skier in your priviledged little bailout lane and three skiers behind you want to pass you at the same time? Should they also have a bail out lane to themselves?

The downhill skier has the right of way ...Mamma Mia!!
post #19 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
I know - let's just make more rules!! People will be people and a-holes will be a-holes. Nothing here at Epic will change that. :

This thread isn't worth the bandwidth it's about to waste.
axebiker gets it atmo
post #20 of 45
Why don't the "ski resorts" that are "safety conscious" just post these "rules" on the ads that they've been pasting to the "safety bars?"
post #21 of 45
why don't people take responsibilty for their actions and educate themselves?

is it your perception that operators fail to post the skier safety act that inspired your post? or is it the advertisement on safety bars that irks you? ...hard to read your intention.
post #22 of 45
We don't need a rule that encourages people to do stupid **** like trying to thread the needle and buzz slower skiers right on the edge of the trail. If there is some guy skiing slowly right on the edge of the trail then you should consider passing on the wide side.
post #23 of 45
tromano gets it
post #24 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNick View Post
why don't people take responsibilty for their actions and educate themselves?

is it your perception that operators fail to post the skier safety act that inspired your post? or is it the advertisement on safety bars that irks you? ...hard to read your intention.
Sorry, should've added the sarcasm emocon and/or explained why I quoted the words.
Yes, I agree that people need to be more conscious and aware and responsible for their actions.
No, I think the skier safety rules are conspicuously placed (but ignored).
Yes, the ads on the bars bug me (and the bars themselves sometimes bug me).
And, I don't believe that adding more "rules" to replace common courtesy, awareness, and responsibility will provide any practical benefit. The "rules" we have aren't followed.
post #25 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
And, I don't believe that adding more "rules" to replace common courtesy, awareness, and responsibility will provide any practical benefit. The "rules" we have aren't followed.

Rules are made for a reason, some people don't grasp this.
post #26 of 45
Dino gets it

...slider, you old tele dog
post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
We don't need a rule that encourages people to do stupid **** like trying to thread the needle and buzz slower skiers right on the edge of the trail. If there is some guy skiing slowly right on the edge of the trail then you should consider passing on the wide side.
If they DO leave a wide side, then of course. However, some inexperienced and or inconsiderate skiers who are afraid of speed often make turns from edge to edge of runouts. It is fine to turn to control speed, but when it is controlling others' speed, that is when that skier has become a hazzard. Being the downhill skier is not a license to block the trail. I've had people turn their heads and see me waiting on one side of the trail to pass, and then when I release, they turn back directly in my path all the way to the edge. This is tanatmount to changing lanes on the freeway to prevent others from passing. It's as dangerous as it is inconsiderate.

This is a frequent problem on the Bowl Outrun at Snowbowl which is about thirty feet wide, and is a funnel tip to all the traffic of the bowls. It is steep enough that letting them run gets you going pretty fast, and the majority of skiers there do so with joy. However, often intermediates who really don't have the confidence or skills needed to ski the bowls end up there, and then proceed to make wall to wall turns, and regardless of any method of signaling that I've tried, continue to do so.
post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Rules are made for a reason, some people don't grasp this.
Most people don't follow the rules of driving(speeding, tailgating, no turn signals ect) why would they follow the rules on a ski slope?
post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
Most people don't follow the rules of driving(speeding, tailgating, no turn signals ect) why would they follow the rules on a ski slope?
Exactly. Disregarding rules of the road can get you killed.
post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
Exactly. Disregarding rules of the road can get you killed.
Yep, like slower traffic staying in the right hand lane. If all skiers acted accordingly on outruns there wouldn't be conflict.
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