or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Market Place › Classifieds › Classified Archive › Discussion: Gear Swap Guideline Revision
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Discussion: Gear Swap Guideline Revision - Page 2  

post #31 of 56
I have sold 2 pairs of skis on craigs list no problem and one pair in Phils garage. I posted another pair on Phils garage but Phil shut me down, I MISSED THE RULE...OOPS! I understand why the rule is in place so no problem there. The only reason i try to sell here is because when i found this site i thought WOW! real people that really live for this sport like my wife and i do. I get alot of good info from this site that helps out alot so why not give someone on here a good deal on ski that they or there family member could really enjoy, Im not a dealer! just someone who buys to many skis with out a demo first,mostly for her....lol she gets a lil mad...but oh well, I cant help it!!! i see it-read about it-i or she has to have it-SOLD! then the next thing ya know....dont worry hunny,ill just sell it( at a loss ) but we saved on the demo fee,see!...I mean really whats the difference if you find what you like...or disslike...same thing right??
Seriously, I dont know what what the policy should or should not be but if it to protect peoples hard earned money and keep the integrity of this site...so be it. Speaking of money....mabe ill take up demoing this season.
HEY PHIL, I got a cheap pair of skis for sale, skied 1 time!!
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dunn View Post
Here's my two cents. If someone really wants to rip another person off, do you really think a $20 "donation" is going to stop them? They could be selling a $750 pair of skis that they plan to take the money and run, and a $20 fee isn't going to do anything to prevent that.

I think the only thing this new policy does is alienate all of your long-time members who have hooked up numerous people through this board (including me) with deals they can't find elsewhere.
The point I've been trying to make as well. I agree with you 100%. And this thread was never a discussion. It was simply an explanation. Just sticky it and make it another rule. A discussion would imply that there was a thoughtful conversation and a willingness to gather thoughts and opinions before reacting.

But mark my words - this will not solve the problem of internet scammers. This is just silly. Alienation is probably an understatement for some, although not me - at least not to a large degree anyway... I've been here a couple years, and lurked long before that. I can only imagine the feelings of some of the people who have been around much longer and contributed much more.

Well, good luck with the decision. I hope it doesn't hurt the membership here.
post #33 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavrik View Post
I have sold 2 pairs of skis on craigs list no problem and one pair in Phils garage. I posted another pair on Phils garage but Phil shut me down, I MISSED THE RULE...OOPS! I understand why the rule is in place so no problem there. The only reason i try to sell here is because when i found this site i thought WOW! real people that really live for this sport like my wife and i do. I get alot of good info from this site that helps out alot so why not give someone on here a good deal on ski that they or there family member could really enjoy, Im not a dealer! just someone who buys to many skis with out a demo first,mostly for her....lol she gets a lil mad...but oh well, I cant help it!!! i see it-read about it-i or she has to have it-SOLD! then the next thing ya know....dont worry hunny,ill just sell it( at a loss ) but we saved on the demo fee,see!...I mean really whats the difference if you find what you like...or disslike...same thing right??
Seriously, I dont know what what the policy should or should not be but if it to protect peoples hard earned money and keep the integrity of this site...so be it. Speaking of money....mabe ill take up demoing this season.
HEY PHIL, I got a cheap pair of skis for sale, skied 1 time!!
Maybe its worth $20.00 along with the wealth of other information that is here.
post #34 of 56
Well
post #35 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
The point I've been trying to make as well. I agree with you 100%. And this thread was never a discussion. It was simply an explanation. Just sticky it and make it another rule. A discussion would imply that there was a thoughtful conversation and a willingness to gather thoughts and opinions before reacting.

But mark my words - this will not solve the problem of internet scammers. This is just silly. Alienation is probably an understatement for some, although not me - at least not to a large degree anyway... I've been here a couple years, and lurked long before that. I can only imagine the feelings of some of the people who have been around much longer and contributed much more.

Well, good luck with the decision. I hope it doesn't hurt the membership here.
We will never be able to please everyone. As far as hurting membership, we will loose some and I am sure we will gain some. As far as it being a discussion, it was discussed in the previous thread about the scammer and it was referenced in the first post in this thread. Most all of the backers in that thread are supporters, they are seeing the value.
post #36 of 56
Well put!
Its cheaper than a demo fee! SOLD
post #37 of 56

What about WTB?

If an Epic Ski Supporter posts a WTB listing, is he/she going to be limited to Epic Ski Supporters?
If this has already been answered elsewhere, please point via me pm to that discussion and don't post this!
Thank you.
post #38 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by quickk9 View Post
If an Epic Ski Supporter posts a WTB listing, is he/she going to be limited to Epic Ski Supporters?
If this has already been answered elsewhere, please point via me pm to that discussion and don't post this!
Thank you.
As it is set up now, a Supporter can start a thread, be it "FS" or "WTB". We are discussing a separate WTB section.
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Can someone sign up, pay and then scam? Absolutely. But now they are exposing their identity to us. We have either paypal or CC info, and they have to wait 30 days before they can post an item "For Sale". By doing what her have done and making Gear Swap a Supporter benefit, I think we have eliminated 90+% of the scammers. *By having to wait another 30 days before you can sell, another 90+% are eliminated. By doing this, we are making it very inconvenient to scam.
I have to question how this is really going to help in the event of a fraudulent sale. Does Epic (and the owner(s)) really want to charge a supporter's CC $750 (for example) after a bad deal? How would they justify this charge, couldn't that be considered a fraudulent charge itself?

Furthermore, in a dispute, how is Epic going to prove that the goods were never received? It seems like this new policy may just be providing a false sense of security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
As it is set up now, a Supporter can start a thread, be it "FS" or "WTB". We are discussing a separate WTB section.
So just to be clear, currently a member CAN NOT start a WTB thread? Why is this even a discussion? I thought selling was only limited to Supporters, not buyers too.
post #40 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
I have to question how this is really going to help in the event of a fraudulent sale. (1) Does Epic (and the owner(s)) really want to charge a supporter's CC $750 (for example) after a bad deal? How would they justify this charge, couldn't that be considered a fraudulent charge itself?

Furthermore, in a dispute, how is Epic going to prove that the goods were never received? It seems like this new policy may just be providing a false sense of security.



So just to be clear, currently a member CAN NOT start a WTB thread? Why is this even a discussion? (2)I thought selling was only limited to Supporters, not buyers too.
1. Epic does not plan to charge someones credit card 750.00. But, a crook is less likely to exposed themselves with a paper trail up fron when they sign up. Since they wyou have to pay the supporter fee, they will be giving either a check or paypal which can easily be traced back to their real identity.

2. No, Only supporters can sell, anyone can buy. This protects the supporter/seller. They will receive the payment before they choose to ship item. We are discussing a WTB section that anyone can post in, we will strongly suggest dealing with either supporters and (well) established members.
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Maybe its worth $20.00 along with the wealth of other information that is here.

I think this quote may get to the heart of what's bothering some people. Phil, I read a lot of your posts and find them interesting and informative but there's a bit of an attitude here that the only way the rest of us little little guys contribute is with our $20. Sure my sub 300 post count doesn't let me hold a candle to your 13K+ but an internet forum is the sum of a lot of knowledge from a lot of sources, not just a few experts lecturing the masses.

Steve
post #42 of 56
I am not in favor of the new policy that Epicski has put in place. When I first joined I placed an ad for some explosiv's and it got clipped quickly. I read the rules and understood them and got to participating in to the Epicski community.

After joining and posting in the forums I noticed that the rules on the classifieds were getting more laxed with folks allowed to post ads with very few posts. I figured Phil and other moderators decided to be a bit more lenient on the rules enforcement, no worries.

But requiring annual sponsorship in order to place classifieds under the guise of protecting those buying and selling on Epic seems an over-reaction to a deal gone bad in the classifieds.

Posting more guidelines and safeguards for buying and selling is in order. Ebay has guidelines for their patrons.

If sponsorship is a "must have" for epic sellers I think one year sponsorship is adequate rather than having to re-up each year.

Unless it is the desire of the moderators to have every member become a sponsor to the site?
post #43 of 56
BTW, you should remove the "This is open to all members" on the WTB site link, or better yet make it open to all members.
post #44 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
2. No, Only supporters can sell, anyone can buy. This protects the supporter/seller. They will receive the payment before they choose to ship item.
Not trying to argue here, but you stated that this policy will protect the seller, but in the case in question (much like those cases at TGR) it was the buyer who got ripped off. No seller in the world would ship before they get the $$$. It is the buyer who has to make the first move of faith and send the cash.

So even if this rule had been in place, the incident in question still would have happened. Correct?
post #45 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ullr View Post
Not trying to argue here, but you stated that this policy will protect the seller, but in the case in question (much like those cases at TGR) it was the buyer who got ripped off. No seller in the world would ship before they get the $$$. It is the buyer who has to make the first move of faith and send the cash.

So even if this rule had been in place, the incident in question still would have happened. Correct?
No, because he would have had to pay to be a supporter, and wait 30 days to sell. This also protects the buyer (as much as we can) to know at they are dealing with someone who (hopefully) is forthright. I think Northcheels woudl have been less likely to scam here if he had to pay to be a member and give is his CC and/or paypal info.
post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesmith7 View Post
BTW, you should remove the "This is open to all members" on the WTB site link, or better yet make it open to all members.
I made a mistake in setting up the forum and didn't check the permissions. It should be fine now.
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
A discussion would imply that there was a thoughtful conversation and a willingness to gather thoughts and opinions before reacting.
Well there WAS a considerable discussion in another thread before these decisions were reached, and most of the supporters who weighed in were in favor of pretty much exactly what the changes in policy ended up being.

I expect, even if you gave great deals on the skis you sold, you got considerably more than $20 for them. It seems you are trying to justify getting something (a place to sell gear that gets a lot of traffic from interested buyers) for nothing, and crying foul because something you never paid for is no longer available for free. :
post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Well there WAS a considerable discussion in another thread before these decisions were reached, and most of the supporters who weighed in were in favor of pretty much exactly what the changes in policy ended up being.

I expect, even if you gave great deals on the skis you sold, you got considerably more than $20 for them. It seems you are trying to justify getting something (a place to sell gear that gets a lot of traffic from interested buyers) for nothing, and crying foul because something you never paid for is no longer available for free. :
That thread was labelled "Apparent theft at EpicSki Swap" which is not exactly indicitive of a policy change annoucement. This thread is probably a better conduit for discussion.

Honestly, I don't believe I've profited on anything I've sold here, hoping to break even is pretty hopefull with most ski equipment. And yes, I'm a bit irritated that it's not free any more. Honestly if I wanted to pay fees to sell something E-bay has considerably more traffic, and I have made money selling equipment there. Honestly I just find it sad as always that a bad apple ruined a perfectly good situation. O.k. I'll go back to lurking and go back over to TGR to peruse Gear Swap.
post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
It seems you are trying to justify getting something (a place to sell gear that gets a lot of traffic from interested buyers) for nothing, and crying foul because something you never paid for is no longer available for free. :
I'd say with close to 500 posts and a history of offering good deals on good stuff Axebiker was pretty far removed from getting something for nothing.

But I guess money is the only form of valid contribution at Epic.
post #50 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Well there WAS a considerable discussion in another thread before these decisions were reached, and most of the supporters who weighed in were in favor of pretty much exactly what the changes in policy ended up being.

I expect, even if you gave great deals on the skis you sold, you got considerably more than $20 for them. It seems you are trying to justify getting something (a place to sell gear that gets a lot of traffic from interested buyers) for nothing, and crying foul because something you never paid for is no longer available for free. :
Yes - the supporters weighed in, and as supporters, what do you think they'd say? They just eliminated 75% of the competition! You don't have to be an economist to figure this stuff out...

Your other comments are pretty off base, and borderline insulting. Getting something for nothing? Wow, you don't know ONE THING about me and have just proven to me that you are one of the more ignorant people I've had the sad experience of having met here at Epic, and that is a small number of people here indeed.

I've contributed plenty here beyond cash - good advice, experience, trip info, tech tips, gear reviews, and KILLER deals on gear - of which I have yet to even come close to breaking even on, never mind actually making anything on... All of these are the things Phil is pimpin' as the reason to be a supporter - all the great knowledge and tips that just have to be worth $20 for me to hear from you and others, right? If all I did was post in the classifieds, you might have something to base your asinine comments on, but that is NOT the case - go back and look at my posts. You'll also notice that most are more than dumbass comments like "Cool" or "I'm so stoked" and so on. I actual take time to formulate a post and hopefully contribute something of value. I had considered being a "supporter" earlier this year. Not a chance in hell at this point - not if this is how the esteemed supporters conduct themselves with contributing members.

It's too bad that some cannot see beyond the depths of their wallets. I guess if I have to pay to be respected around here, it's a club I don't need to be in. It's certainly not going to be the same community it once was. But I'm just speaking for me. Maybe I'm wrong...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesmith7 View Post
I'd say with close to 500 posts and a history of offering good deals on good stuff Axebiker was pretty far removed from getting something for nothing.

But I guess money is the only form of valid contribution at Epic.
Steve - thanks for the props. I really do appreciate it. YOU are a stand up guy. Same to those of you I've had good deals with and other discussions with. I'm about done with this place. The TGR guys aren't just talking through their asses when they rip on some of the stupid things that go down over here. Time to go back to lurking like I did the frist couple years I hung around these parts.
post #51 of 56
Could there be a swap forum moderation mode where EVERY offer of gear gets screened and long-standing members with contributory posts on other sections would be permitted, along with listings from qualified supporters? The goal is to offer participants here more assurance the seller is legitimate, isn't it, rather than to just recruit supporters? I'd think someone with multiple postings that really contributed to the community would qualify better than anyone who just ponied up $20.
post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
I'd think someone with multiple postings that really contributed to the community would qualify better than anyone who just ponied up $20.
It's thinking like this that might get me to pony up
post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
Yes - the supporters weighed in, and as supporters, what do you think they'd say?
For the record, I was actually against this change. I completely agree with you. Even with the supporters that weighed in on this topic, I don't think that this provided enough representation to make the change. Where's a Trotski poll when you need one?
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
For the record, I was actually against this change. I completely agree with you. Even with the supporters that weighed in on this topic, I don't think that this provided enough representation to make the change. Where's a Trotski poll when you need one?
I'm not pigeon-holing every Supporter by any means - please don't think that that's the case. Again, I don't care if I never get to sell here again. I'm okay with that. The whole argument that a $20 fee is going to prevent fraud is a sham. They should also take a look at the privacy policy again, as using the "support channel" to identify people may fly in the face of their policy.

This is done though. It isn't going to change, so I'm not going to argue it any more. It's just when people make ignorant, self-serving,ridiculous comments like the last person I addressed, I feel that I need to offer a course correction for their idiotic myopic comment/accusation.

Most of the people I've interacted with here have been "good people", but there are "the others"...:
post #55 of 56
Maybe this thread should be locked. It's going nowhere - again it was titled as a "discussion", but it's not. It's anything but that. It's just going to turn into a food fight.
post #56 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
Maybe this thread should be locked. It's going nowhere - again it was titled as a "discussion", but it's not. It's anything but that. It's just going to turn into a food fight.
Yup. Closed.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classified Archive
This thread is locked  
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Market Place › Classifieds › Classified Archive › Discussion: Gear Swap Guideline Revision