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No good deed goes unpunished - Page 3

post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
You were doing so well, right up to the "members who aren't supporters" part. What GARBAGE!! So now that we've been driven out of the classifieds, we can no longer participate in or start ANY THREAD?!?
The point was that this is a thread about anything other than skiing, and those threads have a place here. That place isn't the General Ski Discussion forum, as I would have assumed was made obvious by the name of the forum. Politics go in the specially designed forum with sprinklers that automatically activate every 15 minutes to keep the place from burning down. Those sprinklers cost money, don't you know? Do you want trekchick to pay out of pocket to run them?
Quote:
The education system is broke.
Also works with an n at the end.
post #62 of 78
Garrett, still tend to disagree. True, there have been a few "vectors" induced and I certainly am guilty of a few of those deflective transgressions.

However, we have had any number of things that have started in "general" and yet have had "hot topic" overtones ..... such as the Tanner Hall incident that led to a number of posts regrading drug use ... and similiar posts that have entered a fatal spin or spiral dive.

Yet, the core of this post is ...... ski school versus the outside world .... the us versus them.

It's not a perfect forum ... or world ... and not each and evey thread will meet "X" criteria and fit like a glove.

"If the post don't fit, you got to acquit! .." :
post #63 of 78
What does this ski school incident have anything to do with public school special needs? NOTHING! Ski school: public school special ed. Two different worlds, two different sets of governing law. Don't conflate them.

For those who are interested....have you thought about how maybe your local school district might not be doing it right and charging your tax base too much for it? The "mainstreaming" approach is based on 1980s-vintage research and case law. Research has moved on, as has public policy. Current best practice in special needs education has evolved as the community continues to learn more. That, however, doesn't mean that every single district has a special needs coordinator or curriculum coordinator who has the academic wherewithal to stay current with research and understand it, let alone to design a curriculum and implement it properly. Federal and state law only dictate what must be available to students (opportunity: an equal opportunity to suceed or to fail, but an equal opportunity); it is up to local districts to configure implementation.

So, if you have a beef with special needs and are basing your suppositions on little more than your experience with your local district, then you need to educate yourself on the work in cognitive psychology, developmental psych, pedagogical research in special needs educaiton as well as all relevant legislation and case law of the last 30 years. SO MUCH has been learned in the last ten years alone.

So, if you really want to do something about it other than conflate the issue with a law suit against a ski school, then educate yourself, and go to your local school board meetings. They're open to the public and by law are required to make time for public comment and input. It's the purest form of grass-roots democracy. They are accountable to you, but only if you hold them and the teachers they hold on contract accountable.

But, there are good people out there, miracle workers, who do wonders every day and take no credit for it. You should spend some time with them to understand what special needs education can do in the best of circumstances.

Those are my suggestions, from deep fairly far upstream in edu-world.

PLEASE STOP USING THIS BOARD TO BASH THE SPECIAL NEEDS COMMUNITY! It has nothing to do with skiing anyway.

Holy crap! Do we need some snow. It's not looking like Big Sky will be open for Thanksgiving, so here we are on a ski forum talking special ed. I wonder if the planners of the new Big Sky high school are reading this.

EDIT: just to say that I'm not a teacher (used to be) and am not a member or employee of the teachers' union and am not a state-level administrator, though I consult for them. I have no direct ties to any specific agenda.
post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
The point was that this is a thread about anything other than skiing, and those threads have a place here. That place isn't the General Ski Discussion forum, as I would have assumed was made obvious by the name of the forum. Politics go in the specially designed forum with sprinklers that automatically activate every 15 minutes to keep the place from burning down. Those sprinklers cost money, don't you know? Do you want trekchick to pay out of pocket to run them?

Also works with an n at the end.
Thats right Garrett! No good deed goes unpunished! It interesting because I was sure there was a skiing related point to this thread, but after you came in here and posted 10 times and got into a few point counter point arguments about whether or not it had anything to do with skiing... well that is now the discussion. I doubt it was off topic before but it sure is now. Thanks for teaching us all a lesson. Nice work.

:
post #65 of 78
Thanks, I try my best. All for the lulz.
post #66 of 78
faber .. so you consult for them ... and despite the disclaimer otherwise ... your are indeed a vested party in the process. I had you pegged half way through your post.

Let's not get into issues such as using "special needs" to get kids extra time on the state proficiency tests to graduate from high school .... the list of special needs here in NJ has gone from a cottage industry to something that rivals Union Carbide. Here in NJ, they should check to see if the NJEA is linked to ties with organized crime for gawds sake.

and .... with that .... I'm outa' here .... adios ... :
post #67 of 78
LOL, is there something in NJ that isn't tied to organized crime?

:-D
post #68 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
What does this ski school incident have anything to do with public school special needs? NOTHING! Ski school: public school special ed. Two different worlds, two different sets of governing law. Don't conflate them.....................


Holy crap! Do we need some snow.


.
Thank you!!!

This incident - IMO
A ski school went above and beyond to see to it that a student who was LATE for class got his lesson. This was NOT about treating a special needs student "special". It was about accommodating a "tardy student"

It was the DAD, not the MOM who, later...........loooooong after the child took lesson decided that his son was treated differently than the other kids.


Now, son gets
-Private lessons from a quality ski school
-Public lessons from dad on how to be a jack a$$

I am hoping this doesn't create more paper work at all ski schools to provide, yet another disclaimer to guard against "daddy JackA"
post #69 of 78
Thread Starter 
Wow! :

When I posted this initially, I certainly didn't intend to start a flame war on the pros/cons of special needs education.

It's just another example of how one jacka$$ can ruin it for the rest of us. The ski school's already got enough to worry about with the potential of a personal injury suit, now it's got to worry about discrimination suits!?!

We've all heard how doctors are giving up obstetrics because of the liability risks. When does a ski school shut down because it's costing them more to insure themselves than it can realistically charge the customers?

I think the facts speak to a frivolous suit brought by a jacka$$ dad. It will cost the mountain a fair bit just to defend such a suit. Then to have the agency find "probable cause" for discrimination means not just the legal fees, but perhaps a change in policies, procedures and waivers that cost far more than that one suit could ever hope to recover.

So one over-zealous, bureaucratic weenie from an under-funded and over-hyped state agency (perhaps with a Napoleonic complex) who's never been on skis and never saw this kid ski gets to decide that a well-regarded ski school "discriminated" against the poor lad?? Ain't no justice left in the world!

My favorite quote, though, was from a poster on the Telegram site who summed it up best ...

Quote:
Apparently the child has three handicaps: the ADHD, his mother and his father............Hopefully, he is getting treatment and/or therapy for the ADHD; sadly, there is no known 'cure' for this type of bad parenting.
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
They are accountable to you, but only if you hold them and the teachers they hold on contract accountable..
Good one! What good are school board meetings in the middle of the day? If you hold them at 2:00 in the afternoon, not many can leave work to attend...well, except the stay-at-home moms anyway...: The school system railroads everything, and virtually always gets what they ask for (or is it demands??). "Nothing is too good for the kids..." Yeah.
post #71 of 78
You really have a job where if you tell your boss you need to attend a school board meeting he/she can't make that work?

Go to the meeting and campaign for it to be run in the evening, like all school board meetings I've ever gone to have been.
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
You really have a job where if you tell your boss you need to attend a school board meeting he/she can't make that work?
It's not like I work three blocks from the school...:

I'm a buyer for a pharma company, and I'm "an army of one" as they say. I don't have the time to get away often even if I know about it in advance. It's just the way it goes. With that said, try being the person with no kids showing up at a school board meeting - might as well be the beer distributor at an AA meeting!
post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
Holy crap! Do we need some snow. It's not looking like Big Sky will be open for Thanksgiving, so here we are on a ski forum talking special ed. I wonder if the planners of the new Big Sky high school are reading this.
I hope it will be open 12/15 - I'll be out at Moonlight then...
post #74 of 78
Actually, it might well be open on Saturday, according to people who matter at both resorts! My wife works down that way and some friends on ski patrol said that it is really ready now. So, likely to open on Saturday to be sure (Big Sky and Moonlight)!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks goodness for surprise dumps!

PM when you're at Moonlight. My work year wraps up around then. There's a great fireplace at Moonlight (decorated with dead quadrupeds!) to have a drink by.
post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
Actually, it might well be open on Saturday, according to people who matter at both resorts! My wife works down that way and some friends on ski patrol said that it is really ready now. So, likely to open on Saturday to be sure (Big Sky and Moonlight)!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks goodness for surprise dumps!

PM when you're at Moonlight. My work year wraps up around then. There's a great fireplace at Moonlight (decorated with dead quadrupeds!) to have a drink by.
We'll be skiing there 12/14 & 12/15 (Fri. & Sat.) - if my back allows me to. The flight is already booked. Our lodging fell through though - my wife's aunt & uncle usually let us stay, but they've got things going on that weekend.

I know the fireplace of which you speak! That thing is incredible! We usually have an apres-ski rendez-vous ( there every time we ski there. Moonlight is a wonderful place to ski. Big Sky ain't bad either. We'll be back out in Feb. some time as well - I'm sure we'll catch Bridger a day or two then along with BS/MB.
post #76 of 78

It's cold on my

Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
We usually have an apres-ski rendez-vous
Oh yes, yes we will!
post #77 of 78
As was seen in the classic Blizzard of Aahhhs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot Schmidt
People suing ski areas should be shot.
post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco View Post
Oh yes, yes we will!
Hey PINK TACO... Made your annual post at Epic I see... See you in 2008!!
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