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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › How can one know his skis are "dead" or skied out?
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How can one know his skis are "dead" or skied out?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hi all-

Is there a defined or empirical way of knowing when skis are dead or skied out? I know it depends on how long they have been skied, history of conditions skied over, etc., however, I have always thought it was telling if just putting the skis together and looking at the camber (or lack thereof) between the bases. Any thoughts? Thanks!!
post #2 of 29
Good question. Sure as fire someone will come back with proven methodology based upon the ski’s construction and core material.
:

However, unless you are on an old Glen Plake model, I would hazard to suggest the old butt to butt camber method will not prove overly accurate particularly with today’s floaters employing more camber neutral set ups. Certainly, if you’re out hammering + 50 a season reasonable life will be lost after a couple; but with many folks having a larger specialized quiver that becomes more difficult to monitor. What my own empirical observations underfoot have demonstrated; when an original glass ‘feel’ turns damp or when an original damp ‘feel’ turns numb…its time to turn the ski into furniture. And, btw, some Bears on this site do a great job at that.
post #3 of 29
Camber does not mean squat.

I've had dead old skis with every millimeter of original camber still there.

I think it is in broken down torsional rigidity. That is tougher to measure and compare to a new ski.
post #4 of 29
When they start to burn too much oil, that's a bad sign.
post #5 of 29
Ship them to me. I'll ski on them all winter, and in the spring I'll give you my professional opinion.


EDIT: Hey, there's an inch of snow on the ground here at work! Got to start somewhere...
post #6 of 29
When you can't make out the graphics on the topskins.

or, the sidewalls are blown out enough that the metal rips your cloths when you turn.
post #7 of 29
When the graphics go out of style?

When it is not a "cool" ski around here?

For me, its when I get bored with them..usually a week or two on snow.
post #8 of 29
dead is subjective.

my first generation gotamas get better and better every year for deep snow.
post #9 of 29
If they are croaked, ship them here to be recycled into awesome ski furniture. Or just buy the "kit" and do it yourself.

My beer league sponsor. www.skichair.com
post #10 of 29
I agree judging camber isn't the best way to tell, I mean the big thing that effects camber is how much the fiberglass has stretched, and it will stretch pretty quick(within a season most likely). And then we'd have to start talking about metal top sheets and all the weird things going into skis. I'm willing to bet that most peoples' turnover rate w/ skis is much shorter than the life of the ski.
post #11 of 29
Follow up comment: It would also depend on the quality of the fiberglass in the ski. I believe the industry norm is triaxial glass(3 weaves going different directions) but I'm sure there are skis with 2 weaves, lesser quality brands or maybe kids skis(thinking out loud on this one..)? And then there's the quadaxial glass which is available as an option for brands such as Prior, and I'm sure others have it aswell. So depending on the weave, it will have a lot to do with the life of your skis, and obviously the torsional rigidity.
post #12 of 29
I usually judge by when the thing flops if you kick the tail with the shovel off the snow. If it's flappy it's crappy. Chattering on ice is another one (since I ski on it a lot back here).

To me once I lose confidence that it will hold a consistent edge on ice I look for new ones. Then again I like to think I know the difference between me having a bad day and the ski being worn out. Not cut and dried on that observation though .
post #13 of 29
some skis like my Sl-9 lost there bite on ice after sometime.

where as my gotama get better in powder with age. and it hasnt seem to lose its edge hold
post #14 of 29
My dad bought some Salomon Crossmax 10 last year - they had been skied for 3weeks the salesman told him. The ski REALLY SUCKS! It's very very shaky and it does terrible on ice - you have no chance of survival at high speeds
Is this ski dead?
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooK View Post
My dad bought some Salomon Crossmax 10 last year - they had been skied for 3weeks the salesman told him. The ski REALLY SUCKS! It's very very shaky and it does terrible on ice - you have no chance of survival at high speeds
Is this ski dead?
that ski was dead from the start.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
that ski was dead from the start.
If you're saying because it is Salomon, I couldn't agree more But should a ski that expensive not be worth skiing?
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooK View Post
If you're saying because it is Salomon, I couldn't agree more But should a ski that expensive not be worth skiing?
yes, I cna ski wood core skis for 100s of days and they never get that much worse.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
yes, I cna ski wood core skis for 100s of days and they never get that much worse.
Was that an answer to why they were dead from the start?
post #19 of 29
When the laughter in the lift lines becomes unbearable.
post #20 of 29
...And best ‘phrase’ of the Thread goes to
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct55 View Post
If it's flappy it's crappy...
post #21 of 29
If your skis are so long that when you turn sideways in the singles line and take out half the crowd ... they might be skied out

If your skis are made of maple with ropes for bindings ... they might be skied out

If you notice that homemade bench seats and the backs outside the lodge are the same skis you're skiing on ... they might be skied out

If you frequently see the skis you ride on in the corner of the Goodwill store ... they might be skied out

If you take your skis to get the bindings adjusted and the kid behind the counter says, "OMG my grandfather has a pair just like these" ... they might be skied out
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damon View Post
So depending on the weave, it will have a lot to do with the life of your skis, and obviously the torsional rigidity.
<science content>
Er, no.

Weave is a design parameter. Some cloths are certainly higher quality than others (e.g. certified cloths such as S-glass and E-glass) but it is more than a little confused to relate the number of axes in the weave to the quality of the cloth...or even more remotely the quality of the cured final product.

Multi-axis woven cloths are generally mechanically inferior to unidirectional cloths and wound roving. Those ever-important things like "control surfaces" and "vertical stabilizers" on your local aircraft use woven cloths only for finish quality.

For a given weight of glass, several ply of unidirectional cloth will be stronger than a single ply of a woven multiaxial cloth...the process of weaving stresses the fibers and puts them in bending for obvious reasons.
</science content>

FWIW, the numero-uno thing I notice about older skis is the change in edge feel as the edge becomes narrower with a given bevel. Most of the difference I notice about the feel of the ski happens in the first couple runs or days. Much bigger difference between brand new and 1 day than 1 day and 50 days.
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
Camber does not mean squat.

I've had dead old skis with every millimeter of original camber still there.

I think it is in broken down torsional rigidity. That is tougher to measure and compare to a new ski.
OK, I had a chance to actually test my huffing and puffing.

I picked up a pair of 180 cm Atomic R:11 at the ski swap for $30. I had a pair which I liked but gave to my brother-inlaw. I figured he could use them when he comes up, and I might use them some myself. The tops were fair-good, bottoms very good, except for some horrific rounding of the edges at the tips.

Fernie opened with pretty thin snow, just some crusty crap up high, with the option of the WROD or downloading a lift to get to the bottom. Good time to use the brother-inlaw's skis.

Upon further inspection, the skis were not that great. The bottoms were real good and sharpened up nicely, though fixing the tips took some time. The problem was that they were dead flat, in fact, when squeezed they had a little tip splay. Zero to reverse camber.

I have two pairs of a ski made by Dynamic with the exact same cut and similar flex to the R:11. The new pair grips like ice skates. I skied the old pair to death, and while they still have all their camber, they have no grip left at all, No matter how sharp, they ski like crap on ice. How would the flat Atomics do?

Well, they had great grip. They may have been a bit wandery on the flats, but having grown up on long skis with grooves all modern skis feel that way to me. On edge they held great, carved nice arcs, with good rebound and pop.

I figure whoever sold them beat the crap out of them in the bumps. With the uber dulled tips he never did get enough edge to break down the torsional rigidity. Just went slap slap through the bumps 'til the ski was flat and a bit bent, then dumped them for the next victim.

The skis were great for the crusty snow, and after I figured out where the rocks were, I switched to my slalom skis for a control point. They have huge camber by today's standards and they skied the same as always, and didn't feel like they had way more life or grip than the $30 specials.

I guess I could put the camber-but- shot Dynamic on one foot and the flat- but-live Atomic on the other, but I'm pretty sure I can tell without that exercise that camber is not the key to how much life a ski has left.
post #24 of 29
No more edge or base left...they are officially dead.
post #25 of 29
when the shop won't indemnify the bindings anymore
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb12string View Post
when the shop won't indemnify the bindings anymore
um, that just means that the bindings are dead, not the skis...
post #27 of 29
I know, but who wants to put new bindings on old skis

The first post was meant to be facetious
post #28 of 29
For me it is edge hold (particularly tip engagement and hold) and rebound that tell me when the ski is performing below my expectations. Comparing with a new ski will drive the point home (assuming one has enough experience to determine a ski's characteristic).

But I would never use a ski until it is "dead". Frankly it would take a poor skier or an old style skidder to get any enjoyment out of a ski that is "dead", particularly in the East.
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Comparing with a new ski will drive the point home (assuming one has enough experience to determine a ski's characteristic).
one small note on that: taken care of 'dead' skis feel better than new demo skis in my experiance just cuz demo skis are often so hack tuned.

but good point.

when a new ski feels better than the skis you have and you have some money buring a hole in you pocket the old skis are dead.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › How can one know his skis are "dead" or skied out?