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Marker Bindings - Page 2

post #31 of 111
I've had a different experience than many I guess, I've had much more trouble with Look and even Salomon's than the two pairs of Markers I have, and one pair are 9 DIN M41s! It defies logic I suppose, but I came out of my Salomon DR-9s much more frequently at the same DIN setting as the Markers. Just sayin'........

The M41s are set at 8.5 which is .5 over my recomended DIN and I had heard read all of the stories, and generally believed them, but I got the skis, already mounted, and cheap, and they didn't need to be remounted to fit my boots. I clicked in cause I wanted to try the skis out, and never had any trouble, so I just kept skiing them. I've had a "prerelease" with them maybe once out of fifty or so days on them. With the DR 9s, more like six in 30 days between two pair, both in good shape. :

Oh, and hmmm, they are on the super flexy Chubbs, and in spite of the mad huDge amount mogul flexing I do to them they don't pop off. :

I also have NEVER had my M51 Demos fail, and I usually have only used them on hard snow days, to ski hard bumps, coral reef, chicken heads, and death cookies. :

As for Looks, I have only had issues with every demo heel by Look (step ins), and the heel piece of my old GXs that broke on top of the mountain, it was a long way down. Anyway, I had over sixty days on a pair of TX 11 demos, and skied out of them too many times even after I cranked up the DIN, which was the same experience I had with renting them once.

Anyway, I'm just sayin'.....
post #32 of 111
My personal experince with marker, bought a pair of gotama mounted with Comp 14.0. Within my first week tons of prereleases that were flat out dangerous. The most frighting one was straightlining out of the cirque I hit a compression and get ejected from both skis. the DIN was set at the recommend mark which was 9.5 at the time. The first maggots I skied with made fun of me for those bindings. Said turn up the toes and I should be fine. turned up the DIN to 14. The binding still prereleased no matter what from compression and cliff drops, but strained me legs really bad in other falls. Really not acceptable at all. The bindings were flat out unsafe, flat out sucked, its not a myth the biometric toes(or PRO whatever) are the worst binding made in modern times.

it's realy scary to read this....... i'm wondering whether you are still in one piece..........
understand, you are the most agressive and experrienced skier around here. sorry i don't even come close to your mastership. ..........
maybe some day........ I can only dream about

have used markers all my life and never had any single problem...... I've used maybe around 20 different binding made by marker and they release exactly when they supposed to. never prereleased
post #33 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by kubagr View Post
My personal experince with marker, bought a pair of gotama mounted with Comp 14.0. Within my first week tons of prereleases that were flat out dangerous. The most frighting one was straightlining out of the cirque I hit a compression and get ejected from both skis. the DIN was set at the recommend mark which was 9.5 at the time. The first maggots I skied with made fun of me for those bindings. Said turn up the toes and I should be fine. turned up the DIN to 14. The binding still prereleased no matter what from compression and cliff drops, but strained me legs really bad in other falls. Really not acceptable at all. The bindings were flat out unsafe, flat out sucked, its not a myth the biometric toes(or PRO whatever) are the worst binding made in modern times.

it's realy scary to read this....... i'm wondering whether you are still in one piece..........
understand, you are the most agressive and experrienced skier around here. sorry i don't even come close to your mastership. ..........
maybe some day........ I can only dream about

have used markers all my life and never had any single problem...... I've used maybe around 20 different binding made by marker and they release exactly when they supposed to. never prereleased
you dont ski fast enough then, seriously.
post #34 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by kubagr View Post
have used markers all my life and never had any single problem...... I've used maybe around 20 different binding made by marker and they release exactly when they supposed to. never prereleased
That's my experience too. I'd add that most of the people I've observed bitching about pre-release have sloppy technique that puts more torque on the binding than necessary or desirable. i.e. Crappy skiers who hack their way down slopes too steep for themselves and then brag about how nothing less than DIN that goes to eleven can hold them in.
post #35 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
That's my experience too. I'd add that most of the people I've observed bitching about pre-release have sloppy technique that puts more torque on the binding than necessary or desirable. i.e. Crappy skiers who hack their way down slopes too steep for themselves and then brag about how nothing less than DIN that goes to eleven can hold them in.
except my looks are set at 8.5 and our fine, I can actually run lower than recommend DIN on look binders and they stay on all the time.

Plus before you call me a 'crappy" skier you might want to ski with me first. Assuming you can actually hang for more than a run.
post #36 of 111
I didn't call you a crappy skier. I said that most people I've observed bitching about pre-release have sloppy technique. Since I've never observed you ski, you aren't covered by my statement.
post #37 of 111
I think you're both crappy skiers, so whatta ya think of that?!!
post #38 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawkskier View Post
I think you're both crappy skiers, so whatta ya think of that?!!
I think you're trying to start an argument.

Would you like the 5 minute introductory argument ($35) or would you prefer the full hour ($150) ?
post #39 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawkskier View Post
I think you're both crappy skiers, so whatta ya think of that?!!
so says the guy from kansas.
post #40 of 111
I think one of the problems peopel have with pre-release on Markers is that everyone says "turn up the forward pressure". That works to a degree, but if you go too far, then you get the "release when ski is decambered problem". More is not better. If you go too far, the heel can only react by releasing.

btw - for those that say the problem is the toe, do you have to push the heel down when you go and get the ski? If you do, then it wasn't the tow that released. When my Markers used to fall off in that decambered mode, the heel was always open. Once I backed off the forward pressure, it was better.

Anyway, get what you like. I use Markers, Looks, Sallies and VISTs. I prefer the Markers.
post #41 of 111
I think a lot of the bad rep of Biometric toes is carried over from the 3-piece toes (old screw pattern); I also think that skis with plates tying toe and heel shouldn't really have a "release when ski is decambered" problem.
post #42 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
I think a lot of the bad rep of Biometric toes is carried over from the 3-piece toes (old screw pattern); I also think that skis with plates tying toe and heel shouldn't really have a "release when ski is decambered" problem.
I thought so to untill bjohnason ski came off multiple times in one day on a system ski. He's a solid skier. balanceed over his feet. his system marker kept popping off in rough snow.
post #43 of 111
I recall reading, in one of the many hate-Marker threads over on TGR, a post by someone who was sponsored by Marker for quite a number of years, and his impression was that the ones that said logic on them were prone to prerelease, but that he hadn't had that problem with subsequent upgrades.

As I recall, he was no longer sponsored by Marker, and said he skied on Looks.
post #44 of 111
The only time the Markers (iPT 12.0 Piston) on my Tigersharks released this season was the one time I jumped out of a lift. Other than that they've worked perfectly.
post #45 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by kubagr View Post
it's realy scary to read this....... i'm wondering whether you are still in one piece..........
understand, you are the most agressive and experrienced skier around here. sorry i don't even come close to your mastership. ..........
maybe some day........ I can only dream about
I wouldn't beat yourself up too much over this. Everyone ski's at different levels and abilities, it's all good though. As long as you are having fun, that's all that matters. I too often wonder about these guy/gals do what they do! I just keep practicing and keep trying new stuff. Don't get too discouraged, have you looked into some more lessons? A couple of hours of private lessons really seem to help me.
post #46 of 111
Ullr,

Irony. That's like goldy or silvery, but made out of iron. Right?
post #47 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
also its real shame that tons of good skis(notably those from Nordica) are being held hostage by shitty marker binding that prerelease at the slightiest hint of being decambered or in the back seat.
Ahhhh.....That's it. I stay out of the back seat. No wonder I haven't had issues with pre-releasing Seriously though, I think this thread just goes to show that if your a bad a$$ ripper, blasting 15+ foot hucks landed switch, the 11 din Markers are going to be a problem for you.
I also suspect that the Voklk Motion System and I think it is the Nordica X system help reduce this issue on a properly adjusted binding over a non system mount with Marker bindings. I've had 3 pairs of Volkls mounted with Marker Motion systems with no problems.
We will see winter 09 when I give my new Nordica's a spin. I did buy them specifically for some steep, bumpy runs I have been eying for a few years, so I hope they stay on or you will see them in Gear Swap in December.
post #48 of 111
I also just read this on Back Country's forum. This makes the most sense to me yet.

"the problem that most of the TGR crowd(myself included) has with markers is that while they are perfectly functioning bindings, some of the design features do not lend themselves to that type of skier.

#1 I find markers to be less elastic then some of the other bindings on the market today, this means that when the ski flexes and unweights rapidly, or I somehow bobble or get off center, the bindings preference is towards release and not retention. For me I like to have those extra few microseconds to pull myself together in case of a bobble. This problem can sometimes be traced to incorrect setting of the forward pressure value, like the fritischi you need to have the forward pressure screw flush with the housing, and I find its better to err on the side of an extra turn.

#2 And most important to the cliff huck sets disdain for markers is the upwards release from the toe. This prevents cliff hucking superstars from backslapping the landing and skiing away clean, because if you get in the backseat, the binding will release. From a more realistic skiers perspective, its not the best feature in powder either.

#3 From a mechanical standpoint, Markers are not terribly fond of either dirty, snowy boots due to the mechanical AFD, or worn boots due to the lack of a manually adjustable toepeice.

Is all of this justified? Probably not as theres a whole lot of "me too" hatred of markers by people who bash them just because its part of the culture and have no real clue why they dislike marker bindings, they bash them to be cool. I personally have run markers and for whatever reason I just don't like the interface. I feel more comfortable in either old school Salomon 9xx series bindings or my new Alpine binding of choice the Tyrolia Mojo 15



As for the Duke, I personally can't wait to get my hands on them. I've been saying for the last two years that there is a HUGE market for an all metal AT binding with a wider mounting footprint and bomber Alpine style release that'll handle the needs of people who ski alpine boots and big burly skis. Naxo and Freerides come close, but they aren't designed to handle the pounding of skiing inbounds everyday. As dynafit set the new paradigm in touring bindings for the "light is right", backcountry only crowd, I hope the Duke can usher in a new wave of bomber touring clamps for the sidecountry set"
post #49 of 111
^^^ Stop making sense, it ruins the flow ^^^
post #50 of 111
Thanks Whiteroom. At the moment, I'm planing on risking it with some Comp 1400 - 1600. I will carefully adjust the forward pressure and hope the plate allows the ski to flex without compromizing the toe-heel distance too much.

I'm still a little worried though; I have a scary memory of flying down an icy bumpy slope at about 60 or 70 mph while pulling myself out of a very far back position after landing some unexpected big air due to a little miscue (about a 90 degree bend at the knees and the rest of the body parallel to the slopel). I'm glad my old 490s didn't let my toes pop up.
post #51 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ullr View Post
I wouldn't beat yourself up too much over this. Everyone ski's at different levels and abilities, it's all good though. As long as you are having fun, that's all that matters. I too often wonder about these guy/gals do what they do! I just keep practicing and keep trying new stuff. Don't get too discouraged, have you looked into some more lessons? A couple of hours of private lessons really seem to help me.

i realy appreciate this post. don't worry: it was rather sarcastic: i'm not worry about my level of skiing like some might. I can say, with honesty, I ski better than 95% on the slopes. but i'm not even close to be an ignorant and a.......h saying: oh might be skiing to slow?????????
post #52 of 111
Oh, sorry. I guess I messed that up didn't I?
post #53 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ullr View Post
Oh, sorry. I guess I messed that up didn't I?
no, you just wanted to support a guy, which you thouht, would be in trouble: that's why I realy appreciate your post!!!!!!!!!!
post #54 of 111
There is a reason that we have phrases like to "marker out". I had a pair of the motion10 bindings on a pair of carving skis that I used for years. Personally think those were the worst 10-12 din level bindings I have skied on amongst the different ones I have tried including: marker, atomic, fritschi, solly, and look/rossi. The markers definitely tend to release easier and sooner than other bindings at the same settings. Maybe some people prefer that. But just a small sudden bump like hitting a medium sized death cookie or getting 2 ft of air off a roller was is enough to "marker out" at appropriate din setting. Other bindings definitely hold for longer and give a chance to recover while still releasing smooth when need. I have heard these problems attributed to less elastic travel in markers. I have also heard that the pressure screws on some markers are flabby and cannot keep the boot under pressure when the ski is quickly decambered. I don't know that is true, but I do know that turning up the din does not help. Besides the whole point of a din is that its a standard number for use across all bindings. If you have to turn up the din that really defeats the whole purpose of having a standard.

If someone has used markers for 20 years or had 20 pairs of markers or whatever, I guess he can claim to be a marker fan. If you want to use markers and they work for you thats great. If you have been duped into buying a pair of markers then at least try them. But for level 10-12 din bindings I think just about anything would be a better alternative to marker.
post #55 of 111
I have two pair of Markers which have always worked, however I generally shy away from buying skis that are mounted with Markers, their hole pattern conflicts with Salomons, and I have a pronounced preference for them, largely due to some childhood sentiments about what was cool, and it remains, Markers aren't cool, they've always been the ugliest bindings.

Then I think of the Salomon Z12s and how their toes are more like a Marker than they are to the 9xx toes, boooooo!
post #56 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohansson View Post
I'm starting to agree with the majority on here...Markers do suck. On our first run, on an up unweight, I just stepped out of one of them. We were cutting the top corner of Regulator Johnson to get to the Cirque Traverse and I slid about 200 vertical feet before I could arrest (it was very fast and hard). Later, in the chute beteween Great Scott and Upper Cirque, I blew out of a toe binding on an aggressive but not awkward turn. Many thanks and great karma to the 11-year old ripper that grabbed my ski and prevented me from having to climb 100 vert feet of 35 degree slope in soft snow. It was only about 1 pm and I bid farewell to BWPA at that point so I wouldn't hold him back any more.
so this another bear take on markers, he told me in the morning that they were never a problem.
post #57 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
so this another bear take on markers, he told me in the morning that they were never a problem.

maybe it's time to start to blame the indians not the arrows?????????????

pretty soon you guys gonna start to sui markers, cause,,,,,,,they do release.....................

it's like a gambler suiing a casino since he became addicted to gambling: it's not his faul it's the casino' fault...........

coffe to hot?????????
skis to stiff?????????
gambling to addicted?????????
ice to cold?????????


welcome to crybaby' world
welcome to america................

sorry about these remarks but I think some of bears do forget who supposed to drive the skis...........
obviously it's easy to blame the skis, the binding, the boots, the pants etc.......... not the skier.......
post #58 of 111
Kubagr,
I think you are overlooking one small detail. The same Indians are getting different results with different arrows. Perhaps some arrows will allow some techniques that other arrows don't. A strong downward thrust at the heel combined with a sideways movement?. I don't know exactly what, but clearly there is something these skiers are doing that is perfectly fine so long as they are not on Markers, but that they cannot do and stay in with Markers.
post #59 of 111
when i was young i always used tyrolia - i was a diehard tyrolia user for almost 10 years, but then shifted to marker and skied on marker for quite a few years.....from a design point of view they are the most convincing binding on the market since they use more metal, less plastic. recently however, due to salesmens errors, dishonesty or just plain bad service, i ended up with a bad pair of markers.....so in spite of myself and my dedication to marker (the marker sales rep was such a prick that i decided to jump ship), i decided to by a pair of Vists.....I bought a pair about a months ago and put them on my skis just in time to get one day in before the lifts closed.. i bought a pair of 614's and my first impressions are good.......i popped out only once (on my only fall of the season) but the doubt in my head is that i'm not sure if i should have released or not - i came off of a jump at very high speed (didn't see it in the blizzard) on a very steep slope.......i landed on the tails of the skis, off to one side........i had a very smooth release almost immediately on one of the skis (uphill ski) - i really think that there is a slight chance i could have pulled out of the fall, but then again, it could have been nasty, right? i don't think my markers (14 comps) would have released right away and so smoothly but maybe i would have tumbled with both skis on and broken something?.....what impressed me the most with the Vist was just how clean and natural the release felt.....with my markers, they was always something mechanical during a release.....in fact the bad side of the marker was always a pre release or two each season. they gave me the impression that they released when they shouldn't, retained when they shouldn't.....sometimes I just plain stepped out when it shouldn't have happened.
one side note - the Vist is a pain in the a%├žs to put back on when you're on a steep slope.....markers easier to get back on.
I will have to put the Vist through a full season to see what happens - ice, slush, powder - the whole deal.
post #60 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Kubagr,
I think you are overlooking one small detail. The same Indians are getting different results with different arrows. Perhaps some arrows will allow some techniques that other arrows don't. A strong downward thrust at the heel combined with a sideways movement?. I don't know exactly what, but clearly there is something these skiers are doing that is perfectly fine so long as they are not on Markers, but that they cannot do and stay in with Markers.
ghost
i like your comments, seriously

my point is: since like maybe 5-6 years ago it has been "cool" to talk about prerelease of markers. it's sort of: "oh gosh you DON'T know about the markers? you must be a crapy skier". so everybody is talking about this and I'm well aware of it.

my real issue is: how many of these guys, mechanically echoing this opinion, realy HAD PERSONALY this problem, and use different bindings in these same condition......

beeing level 9 out of 10, and having never a single problem with those bindings, this make me suspicious, the opinion about prerelease is just a myth. can you understand my point???

I do remember having markers bio set on 11 (my weight 185), doing GS probably at 40-45 mph on very bumpy and crusty course. one of my skis did release, probably because of vibration. this was 10 y ago. I did the course next time with setting 13 and it was fine. this one, honestly, was the only time when they did release. whether they were set to low???can you cal this a prerelease????

since then I do set the toe 1 DIN higher than heel and never had any single prerelease..........
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