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post #31 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post
Personally, I do not see any flaws in the leaders skiing. He is doing exactly what he is trying to do, no less & no more. He is not playing, he is working. (Work doesn't usually sound or look fun)

Get him out of uniform, let him rip & I think the critics would have a different opinion.
Having skied in these clinics before, I know that quite often the phrase "This is the minimum standard for level X skiing" is uttered before/after many of these "demo" runs....
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post
Yet I'm sure Tiger Woods spends many hours practicing shots to get out of these situations.
Do you think he's spending many hours practicing the shot that got him into those situations?
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I just don't agree. It doesn't make sense to me to spend time working on inefficient and negative movements that aren't used in high level skiing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
Max, that's because you are a student and not a teacher.
Could be. Sure is convenient for instructors to be able to say the are just demoing a bad movement or skiing to the min acceptable standard when they are skiing in a way that is less than ideal.
post #34 of 49
I think you are confusing demonstrating with skiing, Max. Teachers must be able to demonstrate whatever their students need to see (and maybe feel) to aid their progression. In the case of this video, the students are candidates for a particular level of certification. In that context, how can we possibly know what the images are supposed to be communicating to them?
post #35 of 49
The only "bad" movements or skiing are those that do not match the intention,,, or inefficient default movements/skiing that carry no clear technical intention at all.

Do we really know what the intention of each skiing sequence is in that video, or are we just speculating?

And thumbs up to the endorsers of skill/demo versatility.
post #36 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
In the case of this video, the students are candidates for a particular level of certification. In that context, how can we possibly know what the images are supposed to be communicating to them?
Exactly. I don't think the task(s) in any of the videos is "Freeskiing". If it was, I'm sure we'd see different skiing....
post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Do you think he's spending many hours practicing the shot that got him into those situations?
Obviously not... But if he never made the shot, he would have nothing to base improvement on. He would probably isolate the mistake & try to eliminate it from his swing. The point of the analogy was not how he got there, but the versatility & practice it takes to make the shot that gets him back on course.

Max, do you think that pivoting & unweighting are inefficient, negative movements & not used in high level skiing?

Thanks,

JF
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Exactly. I don't think the task(s) in any of the videos is "Freeskiing". If it was, I'm sure we'd see different skiing....

Even if it was assigned technical task skiing, if we don't know the specifics of the task there's no way to evaluate the quality of the execution.

As far as I can tell, this thread contains nothing more than multiple pages of opinion based on speculation. Until you really know what these guys were attempting to do, how in God's Green Acres can you have an opinion on how they did at it.

Which gives me an idea for a new thread: THE HOWS OF TASK ASSIGNMENT. It's an area that's easy to fall short in. Stay turned,,, coming soon to a forum near you.
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
Max, that's because you are a student and not a teacher.
Actually, Max is an excellent teacher, far better than most. All the shiney little pins in the world won't help you if you have no talent to teach.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
No matter what the flaws of any particular system may be, one should be able extract a benefit from a drill if only through enhancing the ability to isolate and exaggerate a movement.

I just don't agree. It doesn't make sense to me to spend time working on inefficient and negative movements that aren't used in high level skiing.
Can you do a Moon Walk or the Vulcan "live long and prosper" greeting? There all sorts of inefficient movements that take some skill to master and can be useful in the right circumstance. You're right to say that enhancing the ability to learn new movement patterns quicker is of no practical use when you have mastered only the movements that you need. O wait - you did not actually say that.

Labels and code phrases can have not so subtle influences on how one sees things in the world. The best coaches have excellent learning skills. Learning is a skill that can be developed. Being able to see things clearly can enhance one's learning skill. A lot of things become much clearer to see when you walk around to the other side to view the picture from another viewpoint.
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
Actually, Max is an excellent teacher, far better than most. All the shiney little pins in the world won't help you if you have no talent to teach.
Good observation. Really good teachers often were students of many really good teachers.
post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Could be. Sure is convenient for instructors to be able to say the are just demoing a bad movement or skiing to the min acceptable standard when they are skiing in a way that is less than ideal.
This is the war cry for poor performance. "What was the task?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
I think you are confusing demonstrating with skiing, Max. Teachers must be able to demonstrate whatever their students need to see (and maybe feel) to aid their progression. In the case of this video, the students are candidates for a particular level of certification. In that context, how can we possibly know what the images are supposed to be communicating to them?
Let's see, you need to demonstrate ineffecient movements in order for the student to learn to ski better???? Let me demonstrate a skid so you can learn to carve? Let me show you a wide two footed stance so you can learn to balance on one ski???

I have had a lot of GREAT teachers. Some of them from PSIA. The one thing they all had in common was that we just went skiing. I've also had a lot of "clinics" liek the one seen here. That's when it's best to be at the bottom of the group while the yakking is going on....then you roll your skis flat and let gravity take you away........
post #43 of 49
A sideslip is "inefficient", therefore the falling leaf drill must have no inherent value. There is no war to cry about. There are only some people trying to make themselves look good by making everyone "else" look bad. It is true that sometimes one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. But it's inconvenient for the argument when this is not true. This horse died a long time ago.
post #44 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Bumps and Other stuff.

This one is on my summer "twitch list" now. Thanks for posting it.

Here's another one along the same lines...
post #45 of 49
That looks fun!
post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Sure is convenient for instructors to be able to say the are just demoing a bad movement or skiing to the min acceptable standard when they are skiing in a way that is less than ideal.
Note that the instructors are not demoing "bad movements". The opening clips are from a drill helping them with leg steering. If you dont like the drills what kind of drills would you suggest they use insted? They are doing the drills with the intention of skiing moguls like in the latter clips.
post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Note that the instructors are not demoing "bad movements". The opening clips are from a drill helping them with leg steering. If you dont like the drills what kind of drills would you suggest they use instead? They are doing the drills with the intention of skiing moguls like in the latter clips.
Tipping while extending and turning came to mind. It is an essential in bump skiing. The flat ski drills get you so far. Why not introduce some tipping drills to compliment the pivot while getting folks to turn with their lower body ?

Filmed drills can depict any movements. Good or bad. Often I will use a drill to help them feel the differences between a good movement and a less efficient one. I don't think they were doing that but were building some skills to lead to dynamic parallel.
A TDK says lots of it seem to be leading to bump skiing movements but the captions speak of parallel to dynamic progressions
post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Note that the instructors are not demoing "bad movements". The opening clips are from a drill helping them with leg steering. If you dont like the drills what kind of drills would you suggest they use insted? They are doing the drills with the intention of skiing moguls like in the latter clips.
I didn't comment on the video but rather on the comments contained in other Epic posts.
post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I didn't comment on the video but rather on the comments contained in other Epic posts.
You still did not answere my question, what kind of drills would you suggest they do insted of the edging and stearing drills to achieve the mogul skiing demoed later on in the video?
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