Skiiing 50MPH + - Page 3

Rick,

LOL, no one is being ignored..especially in this thread.

Master, what color is the sky?

Blue, Grasshopper

But, Master, is there a way to make it green?

No, Grasshopper.

But, Master, I want to know how to make it green.

You can't, Grasshopper.

But, Master, there MUST be a way to make it green.

No, there's not, Grasshopper.

But, Master, if you were going to TRY to make it green, how would you do it?

It can't be done, Grasshopper.

But if it could be done, Master, how would you do it?

IT CAN'T, GRASSHOPPER.

But, Master,,,,,,,

Shut up, Grasshopper, and go pick up that red hot pot over there.

Max, you know how to throw your skis sideways at 20mph, right?

And from that movement you know how to progressively apply more friction to the downhill edges of both skis to come to a stop, right?

Granted, it involves rotary and steering and and probably some inclination and all that verboten stuff and *maybe* even a bit of an up-unweight to start it all off, but it works, right?

And if it does, just ratchet up the speed and magnify the motions and it'll work at 30mph.

If that works, keep at it until you feel comfortable doing it at 50 or more.

This really isn't that tough a thing to do if you practice a little (in a safe place, of course). It also helps to be on a ski with a some length and a less radical sidecut.

Now all of this is said with the caveat that you can do it if there's plenty of room in front of you. I would argue that if there's even a slight chance of that boarder (or skier or nanny walking a dog) suddenly popping out in front of us then we shouldn't have been going that fast in the first place.

Anyway, *that's* how you do it. A good skier can do a fully-controlled (and safe) running sideslip at 50mph. I've seen it.

Go to any radar run. They usually tell you how to stop.

Zoom off to the side and risk yourself like a responsible skiier would do. I got caught in a situation like that, but instead of a boarder it was a little one. Landed face first after a ski came off and tore skin off of my nose and cheek. All was good though, no broken bones, and it all healed. The trick is is once you loose it just put them sideways and put your whole body weight against the hill and slide with your arms extened above your head. That way you avoid any nasty tumbling/rolling etc that may occur if you try to recover from something impossible to recover from. If you do speed events you would usually practice this at lower speeds. Kind of a pain in the ass to do with 200cm planks on your feet.

one of the biggest fish in the last arguement and for those that say it cant be done, your flat out stupid.

from last year


I was able to go 70mph tucking on a blue black groomer with noone on it.

More importantly I was actaully able to turn between 40-60 mph on various parts fo the mountain.

well I ski that fast, I am sure several other ski that fast. I guess I must be truly insane and good luck calling ski patrol on me, you didnt buy them beers yesterday.

So how do you ski that fast?

if something or someone should come out in front of first of you dont stop...you shouldnt be skiing that fast where someone could come out in front of you anway, but if you were think about this. IF you were racing a car(or watching a autorace) they drive very fast alot faster and are alot closer respectively than are theoritical skier. If there is a stopped car in front of a race car you think?

A. the car coming on the stopped car will try to stop
B. The car will turn around the stopped car with out any speed change at all
C. the race car driver of the approaching car will **** his pants and hang on he hits the car.

C is what people billymc would think that happens in reality any race car driver worth his salt would do B. I have done this many time in my own personal and borrow cars.

So as a skier who likes to ski very fast, apparently absurd speeds to some. The last thing I think about when something or someone is about to come up in my way is stopping. Not only could not slow down fast enough anyways a attempt at those high speeds will be sure to release bindings, and catch edges. If you come up on someone or something you simply change your directions to avoid them the easiest safest way to stay in one pieces.

There really is no special anything about it, its jsut takes basic skills and some not hyper carver skis.

Or all the way up.

Folks! I think we have a winner!!!! Tell us, what prize awaits our lucky contestant behind door #1!?!?!?!?!? : : :

This!

Please let the prize be a spellcheck and remedial english lessons.

Not really. A clean running edge equates to safe and controlled, not sliding down the falline sideways at 50 mph. No coach worth his salt would ever recommend that strategy to his/her racers. Skis sliding sideways at that speed are subject to sudden changes in the snow surface that can topple the skier, or rip the skis from his/her feet, as well as constant lateral torque on the bindings. And to continue more on point to your question,,, sliding downhill at 50 mph will not bring you to a quick stop. It takes a heavy edge engagement to facilitate quick stops. At 50 mph, even if the skis stay on the feet and the skier doesn't lose it, stopping will not happen that fast. At 50 mph your traveling at 73 feet per second. If stopping was completed in 2 seconds (good luck) you'd still travel quite a good distance before finally coming to a stop. Staying on edge and in control of your skis and line of travel when close obstacles appear suddenly is a much better option. You can execute a small direction change much faster than you can come to a stop.

Skiing faster does not increase the forces acting on your boot/binding interface. According to Vermont Ski Safety, they diminish as speed increases.

However, the risk of inadvertent release changes dramatically as speed increases. Also, poorly designed bindings may release with little relationship to the torques in yaw and pitch acting on the binding. See: Markers that go to 30.

/OK, now I bashed on Marker...definitely a 300 post thread now.

So after reading this entire thread, I'm getting the picture that the ABS brakes on my new ski's just aren't going to work. What about the airbag ?

Max,,, ever see what happens when a course worker or coach mistakenly walks onto a DH course and into the path of an approaching racer. It's happened on the WC more than once, and it's resulted in serious injury and death. If stopping on a dime was possible, don't you think racers of this caliber would have done it?

Skinny 165 cm 13-m radius skis.
The highest blue line between the two lifts in the first PNG shows how long it takes to stop from about 60. I suddenly realized I was about to miss my cut-off. In the 2nd PNG, below the northern ones are black or double black:, but I'm pretty sure the middle ones are blue

If you know how to hockey stop, the forces involved are no different at 10 or 30 or 50mph. It becomes less likely to be a successful maneuver the faster you go because you have to spend more time in a rather precarious balance situation covering more terrain and therefore more changes in the terrain. Also: the giant elephant in the room - one described by fluid dynamics - is going to change rapidly as speed diminishes, contributing more difficulty to the balance situation. Throwing skis sideways is something to be done after you've lost some speed in other better modulated ways.

Of course for all the reasons others have posted, you throw your skis sideways when you want to stop, not when you want to avoid something in your path. Avoidance won't always be possible. As Rick just mentioned, people have been killed when avoidance didn't work for world-class skiers at speed.

Rick, I don't know you and you don't know me.

I'm willing to bet, however, that you've spent enough time next to race courses to have seen many, many racers come sliding through a downhill course SIDEWAYS at very high speed.

I know that *I* have, because I spent six days as a course crew worker and course slipper on the Grizzly men's downhill course at Snowbasin in the 2002 Olympics. I watched those racers inspect the course day after day at very high speeds with their skis sideways to the fall line.

The question was not whether it was safe or whether it was advisable or whether it was something a mediocre skier could do. The question was whether it could be done.

It can.

Actually, Bob, the question was (and Max can correct me if I'm wrong) whether or not it can be used effectively to come to a stop on a dime if an obstacle appears out of nowhere smack dab in front of you. Read post 78. It can't.

And yes, Bob, I've spent years around speed event courses, as a competitor and a coach. You should hear the gasps of shock and fear that come from the coaches when an ignorant young racer throws the skis sideways while in the midst of a run in a panicked effort to come to a quick stop. Or even worse, god forbid, breaks into a wedge.

Speed

MAX 501. As a racer crosses the finish line he/she will (depending on Speed):

Come up slightly and "unextend his finish position/depend on the light location" and immediately start a turn. The direction of the turn will depend on the size and configuation of the stopping area. As an example some stopping area will say go uphill to the skiers right. Then the easiest way to slow down is by making: a right hand turn uphill to the right. The key here is when decelerating to turn, maybe sideways , maybe 3/4 sideways etc. (depends on stopping area). A fast side slip is used very often, the degree of edge engaged is dictated by; the length of the stopping area, the racers skill and or a combination of both.

Most common mistakes by beginner racers and even more experienced racers is: 1)underestimate their speed in ratio to the length of stopping area = hit the fence. 2) engage too much edge on side move, catch edge or edges and do a cartwheel (often resultins in Clavicle breaking).

So in answer to your question those are direct influences. Can you throw your ski's sideway and stop? My answer is yes - seen it done literally a thousand times. Have I seen any of those racers hit a fence or do a cartwheel - answer is also yes.

Speed, skill, snow, stopping area in a race coourse or chosen by a fast skier also influences this tactic.:

Pete, think back to those finishes you're familiar with. How far would you average estimate it was from the finish line, where attempted stops began, to the point those stops were finally completed?

I think it's pretty likely that I hit that sort of speed at times coming out of the Bowl Outrun at Snowbowl. It is usually groomed (and yes, it is designated black diamond, as if that is a consistant standard of pitch), and I rarely find any reason to turn (said reason would be horrendous grooming frozen in place, holes in the run due to lack of snow and many people turning in the same places, or gaper gates) so I just point 'em. To solidify my stance for maximum stability, I use ankle flexion to lock my shins to the front of my boots.

If some idiot (says he, reeking of bias) is making turns across this 20-25 foot wide passage, or is stopped in the middle of it around the blind corner, I scrubb speed with skidding turns until I'm ready to point them where they are not. I do not stop. Too much of that going on already.

What happens when skis go sideways at speed. :

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/jo...ile/1954128320

Silly guy,, should of just stopped.

before the wreck, that looked like a lot of fun. I always wished I raced downhill.

I dont know if my question is too simple. But i do like to know how to throw sideway when your skis is heavily engaged at 50mph in various poistion of the turn.

1. after release and before engage. This one should be easy.
2. at upper C
3. at fall line
4. at lower C - rebound?

We used to set up our timing gear at Mission Ridge in a speed trap configuraton with 10 meters separating the lights. The timing gear had a setting so it would display speed.

I did not ski the fastest, though I clocked in at 72.6 and 76. I was not wearing a speed suit, though I wasn't wearing baggy clothing. I was on DH skis during the 72.6 run, and 212 GS skis during the 76 run (it was a steeper & steepening pitch, the former was longer, lower angle and flattening, the snow was softer as well) The j-1 racers in suits were clocking 80 & 82 mph. We did have to do hockey stops, but at those speeds nobody was just throwing them straight out. A couple guys went down doing the hockey stops. One broke his brand new Fischer SGs.

I think I went faster than my clocked runs once, but I can't really say so since it was not being measured, and the fact that I wasn't wearing clothes heightened the sense of speed and danger.

When I do very high speed hockey stops I do the following.

- Maintain contact with the fronts of both boots
- Start the pivot from an aggressive, athletic, somewhat "low"stance.
- Feet are wider than my normal skiing stance. I widen them further as I pivot.
- The pivot is deliberate, complete and done in one movement to a tall(er) stance accomplished by moving or pushing the feet & legs IN the direction of travel (as opposed to letting legs push the upper body away from dir. of travel)
- Once feedback is coming back it determines the quickness with which I can flex and/or engage my edges more deeply, which affects how quickly I can actually stop.

The main thing is to commit to and complete each movement with confidence, no pussy-footing.

That said I have never had to throw an emergency hockey stop at over 50 mph due to the distance I move my vision down the hill. I did do one at somehwere between 45-50 (that is a guess) that amazed me. I think our coats actually touched as our speeds equalized, but we did not experience body contact. I could not see due to the cloud. I felt foolish.