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Want Gore and Whiteface Reviews - Page 3

post #61 of 80
Whiteface is great! We drive there at least once a year and have been for the past 7 years. (A Family of 5).

Another reason is the town of Lake Placid. Fun town, Nice shops restaurants.
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post #62 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiboats View Post
Whiteface is great! We drive there at least once a year and have been for the past 7 years. (A Family of 5).

Another reason is the town of Lake Placid. Fun town, Nice shops restaurants.
Ahh, for a brief moment looking at those pictures I could feel being there.
post #63 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgb View Post
But it's cold. Freezing cold. Drag out whatever statistics you want...
I will drag out statistics because it is more telling than anecdotes.

Let's take a look at some averages from two weather stations that are located near Mad River Glen and Whiteface, respectively. I would have included data preceding February; however, the data is incomplete and/or unavailable at wunderground.com.

KVTWAITS2 (Waitsfield, VT elevation 1150ft, close to Sugarbush/MRG)


Feb. 2007 High 44.0 °F Low -14.0 °F Avg. 12.4 °F

March 2007 High 63.0 °F Low -18.0 °F Avg. 27.4 °F

April 2007 High 76.0
°F Low 16.0 °F Avg. 39.1 °F



KNYKEENE1 (Keene Valley, NY elevation 1791ft., close to Whiteface)

Feb. 2007 High 39.4 °F Low -11.7 °F Avg. 13.9 °F

March 2007 High 57.4 °F Low -14.4 °F Avg. 27.7 °F

April 2007 High 84.7 °F Low 18.1 °F Avg. 39.9 °F


While this data is limited, it certainly does not support the myth that Whiteface is far colder than mountains in Northern Vermont, NH, etc.


BTW... people often reference Saranac Lake's record lows as evidence that Whiteface is exceptionally colder than the rest of the northeast. Note the following excerpt from USA TODAY: (http://blogs.usatoday.com/weather/20...highs__22.html

Two other features make Saranac Lake stand out from any number of northern inland mountainous locations. The first is meteorological. The town lies in a high-elevation valley. Thus cold air, which is more dense, flows down the surrounding mountain slopes and accumulates over Saranac Lake. The second is serendipitous. There happens to be an airport weather station that reports daily temperatures at Saranac Lake. Relatively few airports are located in this type of topography.
post #64 of 80
I don't know, man. . .

Whiteface is pretty cold. I ski there 6-10 times a year (most of the time I ski Gore), and I have to say, Whiteface just always seems cold. And this is coming from someone who skied Sugarloaf for 4 years. Similar mountains in a way . . . N/NE Exposure, Lone Peaks separated from other mountains in the area, Windy at times, lots of vertical, long sustained steeps, and Cold.

That being said, if you want to experience both Whiteface and Gore, the correct split for your vacation is 2 days at Whiteface, 1 day at Gore.
post #65 of 80
I am not arguing whether Whiteface is cold. Relative to Southern Vermont, the Catskills, and Gore-- Whiteface IS colder. There is no arguing that. I am contesting the perception that the extreme cold found at Whiteface is unique among northeast mountains. Stowe, Jay Peak, Cannon and of course Sugarloaf (peaks at similar latitude and elevation) are all subject to nearly the same temperature ranges with similar fequency.
post #66 of 80
I think you are right about that.
post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by takeahike46er View Post
I will drag out statistics because it is more telling than anecdotes.

Let's take a look at some averages from two weather stations that are located near Mad River Glen and Whiteface, respectively. I would have included data preceding February; however, the data is incomplete and/or unavailable at wunderground.com.

KVTWAITS2 (Waitsfield, VT elevation 1150ft, close to Sugarbush/MRG)


Feb. 2007 High 44.0 °F Low -14.0 °F Avg. 12.4 °F

March 2007 High 63.0 °F Low -18.0 °F Avg. 27.4 °F

April 2007 High 76.0 °F Low 16.0 °F Avg. 39.1 °F



KNYKEENE1 (Keene Valley, NY elevation 1791ft., close to Whiteface)

Feb. 2007 High 39.4 °F Low -11.7 °F Avg. 13.9 °F

March 2007 High 57.4 °F Low -14.4 °F Avg. 27.7 °F

April 2007 High 84.7 °F Low 18.1 °F Avg. 39.9 °F
I'm going to pick nits...it's what I do.

I was in Lake Placid on the night of 3/7-3/8 and it was colder than -14.4 that night. Closer to -25. Fortunately, a warm front came in overnight and it got up to -5 by 8:30 when we got to Whiteface. The night before was even colder. It was -20 in Syracuse when we left at oh-dark-30 on the morning of 3/7.
post #68 of 80
BS

Again with the anecdotal evidence! I posted data--- not "I heard it was this cold this day". "Syracuse was -20!".

According to a weather station in N. Syracuse the lowest temperature recorded in March 2007 was -2.6 degrees. Not even close to the -20 you speak of. Read it here:
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...ay=9&year=2007

Read my post above about Saranac Lake. The same is true of Lake Placid. It is a high elevation valley surrounded by mountains on all sides. Cold air, being denser, rushes down the mountainsides and collects in these areas overnight. Hence colder overnight lows.

Wilmington (where the base of Whiteface next to) is at a lower elevation , and part of a much larger Ausable River valley. It is not as susceptible to the "pooling" effect described above; therefore, the lows temps aren't as low. The Keene Valley weather station reflects this.
post #69 of 80
I looked up the weather data for March 7 & 8th 2007.

If you were in Waitsfield, VT (near Mad River Glen, Sugarbush) you would have experienced balmy lows of -14 degrees on the 7th and a high of 8 degrees on the 8th.

reference:
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...=7&year =2007
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...=8&year =2007

If you were in Keene Valley, NY (near Whiteface) you would have experienced a low of -10.8 degrees on the 7th and a high of 9.9 degrees on the 8th.

reference:
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...=7&year =2007
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...=8&year =2007

Hmmm... N. Vermont seems just as cold in this time period, if not colder.


Finally, to illustrate the dramatic effect that "pooling" can have on overnight lows lets look to data for Lake Placid:

Low temps were extremely low on the night of the 7th. They reached a record low for the month of -27.9; however, the next day temperatures reached 9.7 for a high, eclipsing the high set in Waitfield, VT.

reference:
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...=7&year =2007
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...=8&year =2007

While overnight low temperatures in places like Lake Placid and Saranac Lake are extreme they do NOT represent what is occuring over the entire the region. The lows are the result of the "pooling" effect that I have described above. The large discrepancy between temperatures in Lake Placid versus Keene Valley only a few miles away illustrate this.
post #70 of 80
I don't know that I would call any of those temps extreme. Heck, for some of the Canuckistanians that is balmy spring weather.
post #71 of 80
I have had a joint season pass to both mountains for about 6 years. Gore is about 1:15 from my door and W-face about 2:00. I split 20-30 days a year between the 2 mountains.

They are 2 different animals. Whiteface has some great loooong blacks (Skyward and Cloudspin) where you can go as fast as your skills will allow, and also has a wide array of other challenging blacks, including one about 2 times the width of your ski length (upper ??? off little whiteface). The runs off the top of big whiteface are about 1500 feet vertical of consistently steep terrain. In total you can ski 3100 feet top to bottom. Whiteface is a skiers mountain and can punish those who are unprepared for the terrain (been there). While Gore has a couple of steeper runs, the length of Whiteface's black's trumps.

Gore Has Rumor which is a legit east coast double black which is steeper than anything at Whiteface. Lies is also a good fun "double" black, still steeper than anyhting at Whiteface. Those two doubles are both steeper than Ripcord, and at least 5 times longer (I have not skied mount Snow in a # of years so I am using distant memory) than Ripcord. Upper Darby has no snow making and is a seriously narrow stump strewn double black. Gore is a nice family mountain with good terrain. The double black runs are mostly short, but longer than those at Mt Snow.

Both mountains offer bumps, but whiteface will likely have its competition bump run (next to mountain run) open if a comp is not occurring. If youn want challenge and are not a trained bumper this will give you plenty.

Both mountains have good cruisers, Whitefaces are better and less crowded.

Neither hill will be busy outside holidays. Gore gets more day trippers from the Albany area.

The weather is pretty close to the same at both mountains. I love how Whiteface is supposedly colder than all the other Eastern Mountains. That is way overblown. True it can be cold at Whiteface and colder when the wind blows. I have skied many days in ambient temps below -20F at Whiteface and windchill below -40F. But I have also skied in the same conditions at Gore and other eastern Mountains. If you head to Whiteface, er Iceface just remember to tell everyone how damned cold it was so the slopes stay relatively traffic free in the future.

Besides better skiing on a bigger mountain the town of lake placid blows north creek away. If you have 3 days simply go to LP and ski Whiteface. Assuming you will make the right choice and head to Whiteface, here is some additional info on whiteface and LP.


1) Favorite trails:
Take the Gondola up to Excelsior (Blue) for a few warmup runs. Excelsior is the easiest run off the top of "little whiteface." After you have warmed up take the summit chair to the top and drop into either of the first 2 runs to your left. Skyward is the first run on your left off the top, it has close to 1200 feet of consistently pitched vertical and I believe was used in the 1980 olympics for the downhill. Great fast run. The second left off the top is Cloudspin. If there is fresh snow or the mountain is still blowing snow Cloudspin can be great.

If it is blowing, stick to little whiteface and ski the black runs which drop off skiers right after you exit the gondola.

2) Where to stay:
  • $$$$$ Mirror Lake Inn. Beautiful common areas and ambiance. The rooms are nice but nothing special. Great place to get a massage or spa treatments. The ladies tend to love th Mirror lake Inn.
  • $$$The Crowne Plaza (formerly the Holiday Inn) has the best views in the town due to the fact it sits on a hill in town. Lakeview rooms look down on the village and mirror lake. The Hotel just added a gorgeous ADK log lounge and bar area where you can have a drink and watch the snow/sleet come down. However, the rest of the hotel is not yet up to Crowne plaza standards. The rooms are generic Holiday Inn.
  • $$$The Best Western Golden Arrow is right on Mirror Lake and right in the middle of all th bars/restaraunts.
  • $$Towne House Lodge. Nice rooms, Still within walking distance. No fuss. Comfortable beds, Down comforters, flat screen TV's.
3) Where to Eat?
  • The Cottage: Directly on Mirror Lake across from the Mirror Lake Inn. Quaint & casual, yet very good food. Great Apps, Great sandwiches. Good lighter fare. Woodburning stove is centered between 2 large windows that look onto the frozen lake where kids will be playing hockey. Great ambiance. Meals are $8-$15.
  • Niccolas: Almost directly across from the Olympic Ice Rink. You have 2 restaraunts under one roof. One serves mediteranean fare while the other is a steak and chop house. If you sit at the bar you can order off either menu. Excellent food all the way around. Meals are $15-$29.
  • Downhill Grill - Good food for $8-$15. Lots of locals.
  • Avoid the Lake Placeid Brew Pub for food. The food has gone downhill terribly in the past 2 years. The beer is still good, but the food is sub par.
4) Bars:
  • The Cottage: Cool, Low Key hangout.
  • LP Brew Pub: Good beer. Try an UBU. Usually a good local crowd on the weekends.
  • ZigZags: On main street. Darts, pool, Zepplin, and Pink Floyd.
  • Rumors: Acorr from ZigZags. Can be scary, unless you are lit up like a roman candle. Lake Placid is NOT urban, yet the local hipsters will converge at Rumors and display their best moves. Unique mix at the end of the night.
Enjoy the trip
post #72 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by takeahike46er View Post
BS

Again with the anecdotal evidence! I posted data--- not "I heard it was this cold this day". "Syracuse was -20!".

According to a weather station in N. Syracuse the lowest temperature recorded in March 2007 was -2.6 degrees. Not even close to the -20 you speak of. Read it here:
http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...ay=9&year=2007

Read my post above about Saranac Lake. The same is true of Lake Placid. It is a high elevation valley surrounded by mountains on all sides. Cold air, being denser, rushes down the mountainsides and collects in these areas overnight. Hence colder overnight lows.

Wilmington (where the base of Whiteface next to) is at a lower elevation , and part of a much larger Ausable River valley. It is not as susceptible to the "pooling" effect described above; therefore, the lows temps aren't as low. The Keene Valley weather station reflects this.
I worked at the airport at Syracuse where the official temps are measured. One of the weather observers there is a good friend of mine. It was -20 the night of 3/6-3/7. But since you found data on the internet (wunderground.com - that sounds official) you must be right.:
post #73 of 80
The wunderground.com data for the airport ASOS/AWOS will be just as accurate as anywhere. The PWS are different of course. The benefit of wunderground.com compared to something like weather.com is that it at least tells you what the source of the data is...

http://www.wunderground.com/history/...theprefvalue=1

reached -0.4 degrees Fahrenheit that morning.
post #74 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
Whiteface: nicknamed Iceface for a reason. Great racing mountain. VERY cold. (most winters it hits -80 with windchills a few days and they have to close the mountain). Grooming is great. Lines are longer than at Gore, but not bad. Not much tree skiing. Lots of snow guns.

Gore: great grooming. Very easy mountain. NASTAR course above a chairlift that brings you right to it. Cheap (like Iceface). Gondola line is long, about as long as Killington (unless you are there at 10am when everyone is working or at school). Good glades if you get the snow. Some steeps - not many.

Iceface and Gore have equal in the bumps/moguls.

Gore, according to my brother, has a better terrain park. Gore is MUCH more family orientated - yes that goes against conventional wisdom since Iceface is home to two Olympics. Lots of lessons going on at Gore. Iceface has a local boarding school of ski racers to watch out for. Lots of locals at Gore. Lots of travelers at Iceface.
I skied both areas last winter--including Whiteface on a 12" powder day and Gore on an 8" day. While Whiteface has ridiculous vertical, I didn't think it had much variety. Seemed like every trail offered the same experience, and only one legitimate tree area.

Gore's runs are shorter, but there's much more variety, and several legit tree areas with different flavors. Not to mention some hairy lines directly under a few lifts.
post #75 of 80
BC13,

Thanks for all the info posted about Lake Placid. I booked a 4 day vacation there starting on 20 February. Your suggestions will definitely come handy. As for WF, I'll ski it no matter how cold it'll get!
post #76 of 80
From what I remember, Skyward was the woman's downhill, and Cloudspin was the men's - they had to start the men's trail higher than the current lift point to get in the vertical feet. Also, they had to truck in tons of snow to even out the compression between the Niagara and Victoria head walls (where the trail from Little Whiteface comes in) so the racers wouldn't get flattened. Was a long time ago though. Bring some sharpening stones to keep your edges in shape.
post #77 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1er View Post
From what I remember, Skyward was the woman's downhill, and Cloudspin was the men's - they had to start the men's trail higher than the current lift point to get in the vertical feet. Also, they had to truck in tons of snow to even out the compression between the Niagara and Victoria head walls (where the trail from Little Whiteface comes in) so the racers wouldn't get flattened. Was a long time ago though. Bring some sharpening stones to keep your edges in shape.
True about the downhill races. I don't get what you mean about evening out the head walls?
post #78 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j View Post
Al Gore, inventor of the intraweb, global warming activist and Nobel Prize winner----who is this Mr Whiteface?

Whiteface? Wasn't he a character on the old Soupy Sales show?

No, I remember now, that was Whitefang....
post #79 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiking4 View Post
True about the downhill races. I don't get what you mean about evening out the head walls?
If you go flying down Niagara at 80 miles per hour, when you hit the bottom flats the g-forces will drive you into the snow. They filled in the gap between Niagara and Victoria to make it more of a single slope to eliminate that.
post #80 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1er View Post
If you go flying down Niagara at 80 miles per hour, when you hit the bottom flats the g-forces will drive you into the snow. They filled in the gap between Niagara and Victoria to make it more of a single slope to eliminate that.
Yeah, have almost fell once or twice on that when I straightlined Niagara. And Niagara and Victoria are a little bit far apart... so how do you even that out? Or do you mean Niagara and Lower Cloudspin?
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