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the connection between being and skiing

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Resort skiing has a lot of drawbacks. One of the major drawbacks is the people. It just struck me. Most resort skiers are a-holes. they drive like a-holes storming around the mountains, they brag and rant like a-holes. by and large, they are large a-holes. this has something to do with the fact that it takes a lot of money for most people to ski, and money makes a-holes. Rock climbers are not narrow-minded, hateful bigot a-holes. Nor are paddlers. what is it about skiers? what has gotten into me? It's that I just figured something out. I am experiencing something that I haven't felt since I was 19 years old and had long hair: random, pointless, narrow-minded, thoughtless hate. coming right at me. and do you know why. Once more I have long hair and a little goatie thing, that's all. Not to protest the a-holes view of life, really, more to cover a bald spot and conceal a weakening jaw line as 60 beckons a couple months away. But now that I see how my appearance pisses THEM off, all I want to do is make it more extreme, and that wasn't how it started. And I didn't get this in Berkeley or San Francisco. It's being in a resort town, and near Nevada. It's a stupid nasty machismo around here and it's poison. Now I'm gonna' throw down the gauntlet because now I am pissed. All the really good skiers up here, the really f'ing awesome skiers, world class, the best that have ever put on skis, the ones you watch in films, the ones that blow you away watching them ski a chute from the chair, the ones that give a ski area class and magic, those skiers, men and women, are not like that. they share the ethos of the rock climbers and paddlers. they are all, every one, gentle, modest, open-minded, conscious beings. so there is a connection between being that good a skier and living a good life. It's weird, and it makes perfect sense. I once wondered how a certain amazing skier up here COULD BE so modest, generous, kind, and joyous. He takes the big, beautiful risks that the truly great skiers take. then it struck me. HE HAS TO BE. His life depends on it. It is also his nature. Now that is a skier. Sh-t, and I've only had one beer tonight.
post #2 of 29
Well it's these 'a-hole' skiers that keep the industry going. Without their deep pockets and corresponding purchase of full priced lift tickets, destination lodging, food, skis, and gear, the industry would not exist as we know it.

If it wasn't for folks like me who are casual recreatinal skiers who ski 10-15 times a season at in-bound resorts there would be nothing resembling what we see now in terms of ski selection and volume and price. Skiing would simply be a fringe industry with an extremely limited supply of goods and services that caters only to clientelle who enjoy the backcountry. You would also pay top dollar for what would be an extremely limited selection of 'specialty' gear that was tucked away in some dark corner of a few sporting goods stores that cater to fringe sports.

Just some thoughts.
post #3 of 29
you ski at squaw probably the rudest resort I have ever been too.
post #4 of 29
Relax! - have another beer -
post #5 of 29
While it's true that many ski resorts would be unprofitable without the high end spenders, that doesn't mean we have to hang out with them. Other than a few minutes on a lift line or sharing a chair, I find I can avoid the a-holes just fine on the mountain. I don't spend a lot of time in the lodges or bars up on the hill, so most of my interaction is with the folks who are there for the skiing or boarding, not the scene. I think those folks who are totally in the moment (the being in your post title) are different from those who are there because it's the sort of thing that's expected of people with too much money and too much attitude. It's not just skiing, I've met my share of the a-holes in alpine huts or backcountry shelters, but most of the people I come across are totally into climbing, scrambling or whatever and that's all that matters.

Of course when they see you they might just resent the fact that you're able to live the life while they have to return to a soul-destroying job in the city just to afford their expensive equipment, Hummer, and luxury suite.
post #6 of 29
In most cases - A-holes sleep till 10 and roll into the liftline @ 11.

Get up early. Give it hell till noon and call it a day. Only 1 hr of a-holes.

Be the ball. Stay off the grid. Hair and grass are for growing wild. Stick it to the man. Love your brother. Build bridges not bombs. Clarity is for quitters.
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post
Relax! - have another beer -
Says the guy fron Canada........ Dont' be hater be a player.
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
Says the guy fron Canada........ Dont' be hater be a player.
THAT looks like a signature!
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 

but it doesn't have to be that way

[quote=PaulR;787699]Well it's these 'a-hole' skiers that keep the industry going.

I hear what you're saying about economics and my name calling is over the top, but we locals get pushed pretty hard, believe it. good quote, do you know the song writer: "If for just one moment I could be you, and for that moment you could stand in my shoes, you'd know what a drag it is to see you." something like that. I mean, yeah, you guys (you placed yourself in a general group), don't have to tailgate, speed, blink your lights and honk, set your dumb car alarms in the lot, wear $1500 dollar outfits in absurd colors, cut the line, stand in large groups in the middle of the run, loudly talk business on your cell phones, move into the fall line without considering the traffic, complain if someone skis fast near you, and generally bring your big city junk up the hill without any sensitivity whatsoever as to what is going on in the mountains. OK, you can be affluent and ski poorly, who cares. but this other behavior...it doesn't have to be. And you know what creates the total sick magic at a ski area, what makes it a real mountain? not rich guys spending lots of money! great skiers shredding awesome lines for all to see. without those guys and girls, it's just....it's..well...just Northstar or some overdeveloped bump.
post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 

I hear that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post
Relax! - have another beer -
yup, thanks.
post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 

now that's what I'm talkin' about

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer256 View Post
In most cases - A-holes sleep till 10 and roll into the liftline @ 11.

Get up early. Give it hell till noon and call it a day. Only 1 hr of a-holes.

Be the ball. Stay off the grid. Hair and grass are for growing wild. Stick it to the man. Love your brother. Build bridges not bombs. Clarity is for quitters.
take the big, beautiful risk!
post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post
Relax! - have another beer -
In reading this thread I immediately stated thinking that this guy should ski in Canada if he wants to avoid all the a-holeishness he is ranting about, and just then a Canadian pipes in with an appropriate attitude adjustment. Skiing at most Canadian areas eliminates a lot of the b.s. heaped on the sport by the USA. The people are generally very nice, they are serious about enjoying skiing, and they rip without an attitude. It's like skiing used to be in the US 40 years ago. Skiers were doing it for the love of the sport and not because it was cool. The expense of the sport in this country has severely limited the type of people who ski, fortunately it still seems to be accessible for just about everyone in Canada, which keeps the a-holes in a distinct minority.

If you want to completely avoid the a-holes you simply have to go into the backcountry. There are thousands of skiable mountains out there and the a-holes are pretty much just on the ones with lifts.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
In reading this thread I immediately stated thinking that this guy should ski in Canada if he wants to avoid all the a-holeishness he is ranting about, and just then a Canadian pipes in with an appropriate attitude adjustment. Skiing at most Canadian areas eliminates a lot of the b.s. heaped on the sport by the USA. The people are generally very nice, they are serious about enjoying skiing, and they rip without an attitude. It's like skiing used to be in the US 40 years ago.
I'd suggest Whitewater or Red Mountain. No shortage of long hair/dreadlocks or beards and a high premium on shredding.
post #14 of 29
I've met a hell of a lot of esshole climbers in my day. There are idiots in all sports. Ski resorts get pretty crowded, so you get a higher concentration of them in one place, is all.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
Resort skiing has a lot of drawbacks. One of the major drawbacks is the people. It just struck me. Most resort skiers are a-holes. they drive like a-holes storming around the mountains, they brag and rant like a-holes. by and large, they are large a-holes. this has something to do with the fact that it takes a lot of money for most people to ski, and money makes a-holes. Rock climbers are not narrow-minded, hateful bigot a-holes. Nor are paddlers. what is it about skiers? what has gotten into me? It's that I just figured something out. I am experiencing something that I haven't felt since I was 19 years old and had long hair: random, pointless, narrow-minded, thoughtless hate. coming right at me. and do you know why. Once more I have long hair and a little goatie thing, that's all. Not to protest the a-holes view of life, really, more to cover a bald spot and conceal a weakening jaw line as 60 beckons a couple months away. But now that I see how my appearance pisses THEM off, all I want to do is make it more extreme, and that wasn't how it started. And I didn't get this in Berkeley or San Francisco. It's being in a resort town, and near Nevada. It's a stupid nasty machismo around here and it's poison. Now I'm gonna' throw down the gauntlet because now I am pissed. All the really good skiers up here, the really f'ing awesome skiers, world class, the best that have ever put on skis, the ones you watch in films, the ones that blow you away watching them ski a chute from the chair, the ones that give a ski area class and magic, those skiers, men and women, are not like that. they share the ethos of the rock climbers and paddlers. they are all, every one, gentle, modest, open-minded, conscious beings. so there is a connection between being that good a skier and living a good life. It's weird, and it makes perfect sense. I once wondered how a certain amazing skier up here COULD BE so modest, generous, kind, and joyous. He takes the big, beautiful risks that the truly great skiers take. then it struck me. HE HAS TO BE. His life depends on it. It is also his nature. Now that is a skier. Sh-t, and I've only had one beer tonight.
Don't relax. Don't take back your excellent statement. Don't be nice.

Keep sharing, keep skiing, keep stirring the pot. Oh yeah, you should become an Epic Supporter so you can hash out more of the sh*t in the Lounge.

As for grooming gestures as counter-cultural statement: well, it's all good, just don't shave your eyebrows off:

post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 

who really invests the necessary dough into the ski industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
Well it's these 'a-hole' skiers that keep the industry going. Without their deep pockets and corresponding purchase of full priced lift tickets, destination lodging, food, skis, and gear, the industry would not exist as we know it.

If it wasn't for folks like me who are casual recreatinal skiers who ski 10-15 times a season at in-bound resorts there would be nothing resembling what we see now in terms of ski selection and volume and price. Skiing would simply be a fringe industry with an extremely limited supply of goods and services that caters only to clientelle who enjoy the backcountry. You would also pay top dollar for what would be an extremely limited selection of 'specialty' gear that was tucked away in some dark corner of a few sporting goods stores that cater to fringe sports.

Just some thoughts.
I'm not so sure that folks like you make it happen or keep it going. a couple numbers some guys were tossing around on Funi one day. let's see, 10-15 times=$600-$900 vs. a pass at $1300 -$1800. One or two pairs of moderate skis for $900 or less vs. $2,000 -$3,000 for 3-5 pairs of top of the line skis, boots every year at $750 a pop, vs. your cheep boots every few years at $300 a pair, wearing out several pairs of gore-tex gloves a year vs. getting 4 seasons out of a pair, $75 a season on wax vs. $8 a year if you wax, and so on. Do you see where I'm going with the math. I could be underestimating your need for boots that are beyond your conditioning as a "casual recreational" skier and thus off on some of the numbers, but the overall picture is pretty spot on. Restaurants and Hotels sure, need the business, sure, but carry the industry, I don't think so. There would be no industry if one looked up the mountain and saw nothing but a bunch of casual recreational skiers because the power of the legend would fade, and the industry would have no image with which to hype the stuff they peddle.
post #17 of 29
I was with you for a while, but now one of us has lost our way. Is your position that having gore-tex gear, good skis, good boots, and get a pro grind/wax job every once in a while makes one an a-hole? Or is it your position that "casual" skiers don't contribute enough to the skiing economy (as a result of their "casual" expenditures) to impact the economy should they all be eliminated from the slopes?

I am not sure that large cash reserves is directly proportional to the propensity toward being an a-hole. My experience is that there is a depressing surfeit of a-holes in all economic strata. Rather, it is the access to cash reserves that enables a-holes to do the relatively expensive stuff that you also like to do, and thus thrusts them into your consciousness.

So, you have two fairly clearly delineated options: 1) Continue to brood, fret, and seethe, until one day you burst into a nihilstic rage; or 2) Don't.
post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 

not connecting properly

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier View Post
I was with you for a while, but now one of us has lost our way. Is your position that having gore-tex gear, good skis, good boots, and get a pro grind/wax job every once in a while makes one an a-hole? Or is it your position that "casual" skiers don't contribute enough to the skiing economy (as a result of their "casual" expenditures) to impact the economy should they all be eliminated from the slopes?

I am not sure that large cash reserves is directly proportional to the propensity toward being an a-hole. My experience is that there is a depressing surfeit of a-holes in all economic strata. Rather, it is the access to cash reserves that enables a-holes to do the relatively expensive stuff that you also like to do, and thus thrusts them into your consciousness.

So, you have two fairly clearly delineated options: 1) Continue to brood, fret, and seethe, until one day you burst into a nihilstic rage; or 2) Don't.
I should know by now that calling anyone an a-hole, even just a general a-hole, or a-holes in general, is going to polarize the discussion (duh) and Paul R took personal offense.'mea culpa' . Nevertheless, I think what I am saying is that locals spend a lot of money as well, and that for a guy to say that the deep pockets of the 10 day skier builds, supports, and keeps the ski industry going may not be entirely true, in terms of money or spirit. And when Paul divides skiers into the haves and the have lesses, at least in terms of who makes the ski industry tick, I feel demeaned.that's all. no slam on casual skiers for what they do or don't buy, (someone does have to buy all that crap, there I go again). they just aren't the only financially significant component of the ski economy and industry.

I don't intend to trap myself into limited options or insult anyone. I also do have a bias against wealthy folks in general, though not person by person. so the very phrase "deep pockets" or now "cash reserves" does hit a sore spot with me. again, my bad. I'm not seething or raging, just discussing things from a clear, maybe exaggerated bias. I have no interest in being right from all sides of an issue. If that were how a discussion went, it would drift into nihilistic nothingness pretty fast. thanks, though, I do need to know if that is how I come off in writing. I'm not exactly brooding either, I am home with a cold and have to do something to pass the time and not freak over getting more and more out of shape laying around while the season approaches. (as to negative writing in the extreme, see: muckrakers)
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
I once wondered how a certain amazing skier up here COULD BE so modest, generous, kind, and joyous.
On a philosophical bent, how can one be more like the guy davluri describes?
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
I also do have a bias against wealthy folks in general
Por que?
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnjantzie View Post
I'd suggest Whitewater or Red Mountain. No shortage of long hair/dreadlocks or beards and a high premium on shredding.
Sounds like my kinda place.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
I also do have a bias against wealthy folks in general.
Hmm...I've worked hard for many years to be able to have $$. In the same breath, I think most people who know me would say that I'm a very mellow, easy-going dude, "anti a-hole" if you will. I think there's a-holes in EVERY economic stratum, rich, mid and poor. In fact, there's cool folks and a-holes in pretty much every aspect of life. That would include ski areas. All of the folks I ski and hang with are wonderful, pleasant, non a-hole folks. We choose to avoid and keep out of our lives those who are not of a similar mind-set. So yes, when at a ski area we have all encountered those who rub us the wrong way. I try to cherish those moments, because it's people like that who make me appreciate that much more my wonderful friends and family who aren't like that!
post #23 of 29
Oh, and P.S. I've grown my hair out too! I had one of my grumpiest patients come in the other day, take one look at it and say," I don't like that." My reply was," every girl I know, especially the pretty ones, seem to like it a lot, and their opinion counts a lot more than yours!"
post #24 of 29
now I am afraid to go to Northstar
post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 

resenting wealth, my bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by doogiedoc View Post
Hmm...I've worked hard for many years to be able to have $$. In the same breath, I think most people who know me would say that I'm a very mellow, easy-going dude, "anti a-hole" if you will. I think there's a-holes in EVERY economic stratum, rich, mid and poor. In fact, there's cool folks and a-holes in pretty much every aspect of life. That would include ski areas. All of the folks I ski and hang with are wonderful, pleasant, non a-hole folks. We choose to avoid and keep out of our lives those who are not of a similar mind-set. So yes, when at a ski area we have all encountered those who rub us the wrong way. I try to cherish those moments, because it's people like that who make me appreciate that much more my wonderful friends and family who aren't like that!
you are absolutely right. I also need to count my blessings, having the house in the mountains that I always wanted, a pass at Squaw, a wonderful kid, great ski buds :, and no money (my choice, right?). Not so bad.

maybe I can rant against unearned wealth that corrupts a persons soul and makes them persecute me and not buy my wonderful, very expensive furniture. make sense? not so much.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
you are absolutely right. I also need to count my blessings, having the house in the mountains that I always wanted, a pass at Squaw, a wonderful kid, great ski buds :, and no money (my choice, right?). Not so bad.

maybe I can rant against unearned wealth that corrupts a persons soul and makes them persecute me .
NOW you're talking!
post #27 of 29
There is such a wide range of experiences that fall under the category of skiing--from destination megaresorts to small day use areas, to backcountry, randonee, touring, etc. One thing that I've noticed over the years as I migrated from Utah to Colorado to Montana and now to Idaho is that the smaller scale operations offer an experience often far different than the big destination resorts and I for one really like it. Traffic, parking, crowds and lift lines are words that I read about on Epic and are not part of my ski experience. Granted, I've given up skiing 3,000' vert over vast acreage, with frequent dumps of snow. Still I don't find the a**holes as prevalent as when I'm at one of the places that even nonskiers have heard of.
post #28 of 29
Heh. You think you have problems!

Well, there is definitely a contingent of people who imagine that skiing should be exclusive. They have this image of glamour associated with skiing and anything that doesn't fit into this image... well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
9) Dont want this to come off sounding snobby, but I like the exclusivity, not that I or others that ski are better than others, but that since not everyone skis, those that do are in the know as opposed to those that do not.
I remember this commercial for a second hand fur store in NY with the slogan
Quote:
"Some women lunch at the Plaza, ski in San Moritz and buy expensive furs every year. Some women just look that way, but they have one thing in common-- The Ritz Thrift Shop. Some sell us their furs, others buy them"
This kind of thinking is ingrained in every nouveau rich noob wearing their k-jus at Stratton.

There also is "the mountain is only for locals" mentality that is equally prejudicial. I find this attitude makes for great comedy when they've only been 'local' for a few seasons. I meet so many "NYers" who claim to know it all and have been here for less than 5 years. It's amazing how many people discover a good thing and then rush to close the door behind them.

People are people, keep the gems and toss back the junk.
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 

buying used tires for too many years

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier View Post
Por que?
it's a weakness not a strength. and a contradiction as well, as I am a fine furniture maker and my stuff goes for a very high price, only for the wealthy. Running a micro small business in this country is a long, difficult grind, and I stress sometimes. sorry for the a-hole attitude toward people on a different journey. some did get it easy though, and that I resent. see, I can't hold it back!
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