EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Ramp angle Q on GS skis
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Ramp angle Q on GS skis

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Bought used Tyrolia FF+ dx10 din 9-18 racing bindings for my new 185cm Blizzard Magnesium GS skis from jr FIS racer and they have 11mm ramp angle. Thats a lot and now my question is why because the recreational FF bindings have much less. Im used to using very little ramp and wonder if its totally out of the question to raice the front pease to close to level with the tail pease? On my SL I have same sort of bindings and put the ramp to about 5mm. I think that is fine but how is it to have ramp angle cero?
post #2 of 11
Are you sure you have measured the ramp angle correctly? The ramp angle is usually expressed in degrees, not mm's. Anyway, if the heel piece is 11 mm higher than the toe, you probably have a problem. Why? Because the binding ramp angle adds to the boot ramp angle and the total angle you will end up with is probably not good for most skiers. There were some threads on how to measure boot and binding ramp angles.
I can tell you that for boots, the ramp angle is the difference in height between the heel and toe of the boot board divided by its length.

For example, a UK 6.5 Tecnica Diablo Race 110 is 32mm high in the heel of the boot board (zeppa) and 14 in the toe. The difference in height is 18 mm. The bootboard length for the UK 6.5 Diablo 110 is 250 mm. I divide 18/250 = 0.072 I look in a trigonometric table and find that i have a little over 4 degrees of ramp angle.

Same goes for the binding ramp angle. You have to measure the difference in height between the heel and toe piece. You have to divide this number by the length between the AFD and heel pad. They are the two points on which the boot is suspended. So you do not measure over the entire length of the boot. Again you have to look at trigonometric tables to find the angle.

For example, the heel piece of my Markers Comp 14.0s is 4 mm higher than the toe piece. It would be 6 mm but the Marker plate is 2 mm higher in the toe than in the heel. 11 mm is huge IMO! If it is the correct number you have to divide it by the length between the two points on which the boot is suspended (AFD and heel pad). Then look in a trig table to find the angle.

I need a lower ramp, too. I raise the toe piece with 2mm lifters from Marker until the difference in height between the heel and toe piece is 0. I even skied with a negative ramp. The toe was 2 mm higher than the heel. Contrary to what many people think, it worked very well. Adding boot lifters to your toe lugs will have the same result.
If you have too much ramp you will be in the backseat.
post #3 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw View Post
Are you sure you have measured the ramp angle correctly? The ramp angle is usually expressed in degrees, not mm's.....
I'd always seen it expressed in mm as differing boot lengths alter the actual angle in degrees.
post #4 of 11
It's binding delat when measured in mms. You'd have to do the math to get degrees. Anyway, 11mm is a lot! I just picked up a pair of SGs that were set up with what I am guessin to be 9mm of delta. I de-shimmed them and put them at 5mm.

To answer your question tdk6, I have 0mm delta on both my GS and Slalom skis, but am planningto give the GS skis a little delta this year (start with 2mm).
post #5 of 11

Ramp angle

The Tyrolia high din FF-series (DX-10 et al) all come with a very high ramp angle. The high end racers that use this binding use a lot of spacers to set their own preferred ramp angle. Most of the ones I know have their slaloms at level and their GS skis 1-2 degrees up, meaning the toe is slightly higher than the heel. I think the best for you is to get some Tyrolia spacers and find what works best for you.
post #6 of 11
Negative ramp on GS skis? I'd say that's a rarity from what I've seen. Flat is certainly not uncommon for SL though. Fischer used to (still does?) have a lift kit for SL that went 6mm / 4mm; that comes out close to flat with the standard FF17. It appears you'll need significantly more with the DX bindings though.
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw View Post
Are you sure you have measured the ramp angle correctly? The ramp angle is usually expressed in degrees, not mm's. Anyway, if the heel piece is 11 mm higher than the toe, you probably have a problem. Why? Because the binding ramp angle adds to the boot ramp angle and the total angle you will end up with is probably not good for most skiers. There were some threads on how to measure boot and binding ramp angles.
I can tell you that for boots, the ramp angle is the difference in height between the heel and toe of the boot board divided by its length.

For example, a UK 6.5 Tecnica Diablo Race 110 is 32mm high in the heel of the boot board (zeppa) and 14 in the toe. The difference in height is 18 mm. The bootboard length for the UK 6.5 Diablo 110 is 250 mm. I divide 18/250 = 0.072 I look in a trigonometric table and find that i have a little over 4 degrees of ramp angle.

Same goes for the binding ramp angle. You have to measure the difference in height between the heel and toe piece. You have to divide this number by the length between the AFD and heel pad. They are the two points on which the boot is suspended. So you do not measure over the entire length of the boot. Again you have to look at trigonometric tables to find the angle.

For example, the heel piece of my Markers Comp 14.0s is 4 mm higher than the toe piece. It would be 6 mm but the Marker plate is 2 mm higher in the toe than in the heel. 11 mm is huge IMO! If it is the correct number you have to divide it by the length between the two points on which the boot is suspended (AFD and heel pad). Then look in a trig table to find the angle.

I need a lower ramp, too. I raise the toe piece with 2mm lifters from Marker until the difference in height between the heel and toe piece is 0. I even skied with a negative ramp. The toe was 2 mm higher than the heel. Contrary to what many people think, it worked very well. Adding boot lifters to your toe lugs will have the same result.
If you have too much ramp you will be in the backseat.
Thanks for very thorough explanation of ramp angle. Im sort of thinking in the lines of for example spyderjon and rather talk about ramp as just a difference in stand height in mm insted of degrees. Mm are really easy to measure and relate to since a 4mm ramp needs 4mm raiser to become flat.

BYW, how pleased are you with the Markers and especially the ski stoppers? Do they flush even with the sidewall of the ski? I had a lot of trouble with the Marker made Blizzard bindings and stoppers. I also find it kind of hard to raise the toe peace on a Marker binding since they have that one screw that is keeping the toe pease in place attached to the plate itselfe.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
It's binding delat when measured in mms. You'd have to do the math to get degrees. Anyway, 11mm is a lot! I just picked up a pair of SGs that were set up with what I am guessin to be 9mm of delta. I de-shimmed them and put them at 5mm.

To answer your question tdk6, I have 0mm delta on both my GS and Slalom skis, but am planningto give the GS skis a little delta this year (start with 2mm).
Why?
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmmaster View Post
The Tyrolia high din FF-series (DX-10 et al) all come with a very high ramp angle. The high end racers that use this binding use a lot of spacers to set their own preferred ramp angle. Most of the ones I know have their slaloms at level and their GS skis 1-2 degrees up, meaning the toe is slightly higher than the heel. I think the best for you is to get some Tyrolia spacers and find what works best for you.
That explains the huge ramp. I have never been able to find any Tyrolia spacers so I had to make my own. Its a real huzzle finding longer screws though.
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
Negative ramp on GS skis? I'd say that's a rarity from what I've seen. Flat is certainly not uncommon for SL though. Fischer used to (still does?) have a lift kit for SL that went 6mm / 4mm; that comes out close to flat with the standard FF17. It appears you'll need significantly more with the DX bindings though.
To raice the front pease by 11mm is very radical. I think I will start with just 3mm ramp and see how it works.
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Thanks for very thorough explanation of ramp angle. Im sort of thinking in the lines of for example spyderjon and rather talk about ramp as just a difference in stand height in mm insted of degrees. Mm are really easy to measure and relate to since a 4mm ramp needs 4mm raiser to become flat.

BYW, how pleased are you with the Markers and especially the ski stoppers? Do they flush even with the sidewall of the ski? I had a lot of trouble with the Marker made Blizzard bindings and stoppers. I also find it kind of hard to raise the toe peace on a Marker binding since they have that one screw that is keeping the toe pease in place attached to the plate itselfe.

My Markers suffer from the same problems as the other Markers except for the Comp 18.0 and the other high DIN bindings. I weigh 155 lbs and if i do not set the DIN at 9 or higher sometimes i pre-release. I always set them at 9. When i set them at 8, i pre-released. I had no problems with the brakes if that is what you have been talking about. My skis are 64 mm wide at the waist.

I have the Marker WC SL Plate. The toe piece is mounted onto the plate with 3 screws. 4 for the heel piece. I saw some integrated binding/plate systems using Marker bindings like the Nordica X-Balance System. The toe piece was mounted onto the plate with 1 screw only.
If you have the WC plate then you have 3 screws for the toe piece.

OK, let's call delta the difference in height between the heel piece and toe piece. It is easier to measure although you will need to use trig tables to find the angles. This is especially true for the boot's ramp angle. If i measure the delta it will not tell me anything about the angle itself. It's true that the ramp angle decreases in longer lengths and increases in smaller sizes. With bindings it is easier because many people probably measure the delta only, not the angle itself.

I had a negative delta on my SL skis, not GS.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Ramp angle Q on GS skis