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What do you MOST need to teach/coach skiing effectiley? - Page 2

post #31 of 51

Teaching

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA View Post
Understanding skiing is far easier than understanding and making a connection with people.


Hey BillA. You just said in 13 words what it took me a 100 to say
post #32 of 51
Dude:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
The most important thing is for the instructor/coach to know how to ski - which does not mean the instructor actuallyu has to perform at the same level of the student -- look at WC coaches. Drilling down from there, we find that's how to move, and fundamentally, that is all about biomechanics.

SO, I'll go "biomechanics" for 1000 Skidude!
Maybe the point is not so much to see which element is MOST important by removing it completely, like taking the steering wheel off the car, but when you are building the car, which thing will give you the most bang for the buck.

Should I go with the plush interior or the snow tires?

I truly think that empathy or caring or passion won't matter one bit if you have little clue of how to ski....and as you know, I think you need to understand how the body works to really know how to teach.
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post
Hey BillA. You just said in 13 words what it took me a 100 to say
I'd rather ski than talk so I've learned to condense.:



:
post #34 of 51
Quote:
I think what surprises me by the answers, is that no-one seems to advocate that what you need most is a good understanding of skiing. I agree with the notion by the way, but I did expect quiet a few people would have put that at the top of their list.
Yes, I'm a little surprised about that too, but in a good way. It speaks to the savvy and--ironically--"good understanding of skiing" that goes way beyond the superficial, of the crowd here at EpicSki. I think everyone agrees that a "good understanding" of the sport (even that, of course, is a very broad topic!), is a vital ingredient in the recipe that makes a good instructor. But I'm gratified to see that no one thinks it's all there is to it. It may be the flour in the cake, but have you ever eaten just flour?

To take it a step further, most instructor trainers and supervisors I know would agree that higher levels of performance and better technical understanding are the attributes that are easy to teach (to the right person). In that respect, they are often far down on the priority list when looking for prospective instructors. What they would consider "most important" is personality, empathy, passion, and coachability. With these things as a foundation, knowledge and performance are sure to follow. But there's no guarantee that a great skier with extensive technical knowledge will develop personality!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #35 of 51
I would doubt that any "good" ski instructor came to the profession having, "a good understanding of skiing". Sure, perhaps a past olympian like Deb Armstrong came with a good understanding of skiing, but was she a "good" instructor? Well maybe she was, I don't know, but I would bet once she began teaching and getting into it she expanded her knowledge base in the areas she was lacking and because of that became a "good" instuctor.

There is no college education to become a good instructor. One must get hired on their skiing abilities, personality, and potential, before they get the opportunity to learn and develop their "understanding of skiing" in all the areas mentioned in above posts, to become a good instructor.
post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
Q: What do you MOST need to teach/coach skiing effectively?

A: Students
That is the only real answer to the first question

Quote:
What do you need to UNDERSTAND most in order to teach/coach well?
That to get enough students to make a living we need to conduct ourselves in a way that generates students.
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes/Colorado View Post
To take it a step further, most instructor trainers and supervisors I know would agree that higher levels of performance and better technical understanding are the attributes that are easy to teach (to the right person). In that respect, they are often far down on the priority list when looking for prospective instructors. What they would consider "most important" is personality, empathy, passion, and coachability. With these things as a foundation, knowledge and performance are sure to follow. But there's no guarantee that a great skier with extensive technical knowledge will develop personality!
I consider myself to be somone who has a fairly good "understanding of skiing" compared to most other people you see on the mountain. Like Bob says above, technical understanding of skiing is not always enough. I'm sure that walking into an everyday beginner lesson would be a big challenge for me as it is a situation I have never really encountered on snow before.

I do think however, that are a lot of people out there that possess personality, empathy, passion, and coachability but are lacking the technical understanding of skiing that is required in order to be a great coach. I think that the best instructors should have all of the above or at the very least the potential to develop all of the above. If they are truly coachable, developing any area of defficiency should be a surmountable task for the instructor.

Later

GREG
post #38 of 51
I read Bob's post, and it struck me to look at it the other way around. Most instructors I know have great people skills -- one reason they are instructors to begin with is that they genuinely like dealing with the public.

So, people skills is not what sets these instructors apart -- what does set them apart is their level of technical knowledge - and that's just not about physics/forces.... I'm saying that their level of knowledge about skiing is what limits their ability to "detect and correct" a students skiing. If they know how to ski, they can see how others are not skiing well. If they know how to ski, they can focus on the task at hand -- how to correct the errors in the students skiing. Or can they?

This is the reason I chose biomechanics -- instructors need to know how the body works to select drills that will effect the desired change in their students skiing without teaching other limiting movements. Personality is rarely a problem.

let's put it another way:

Would you rather have a lesson from an instructor that has a personality deficit or a knowledge deficit?
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Would you rather have a lesson from an instructor that has a personality deficit or a knowledge deficit?
I'll make that decision after I stop beating my wife.
post #40 of 51
I had an old SSD say to my hiring class "I can teach you how to teach but I can't teach you to like people". Those who didn't like people got thinned out pretty quickly.
post #41 of 51
You can't do any of these things listed, if you are not willing to challenge your own learning/thinking and if you cannot communicate.

Thanks,
post #42 of 51
Would you rather have a lesson from an instructor that has a personality deficit or a knowledge deficit?[/quote]


....you never cease to amaze me.
post #43 of 51
Skidude72,

The technical aspects of skiing are something a good instructor understands (and the public expects it). What a few really talented instructors have that many don't have, is the ability to put the student in a learning enviorment. So, it's not the techno BS that is important, but the ability to motivate the students learning.

RW
post #44 of 51
Reverting to the original proposition as caged ... "Pick One" ... :

Okie Dokie ..

etc. would get my vote hands down! No doubt about it.

Heck, you .... "draw a line in the sand" ... so wide I could build a small city on it?
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Empathy.
But not so much emotional empathy, necessarily, as physical empathy--being able to feel the physical forces which are causing the student to ski the way he/she is.

Complete physical empathy is impossible. Instructors would need to be science fiction like shape shifters. I am short and broad. I can't really feel what it is like to ski as a tall, slender person. I am a man. I can't really feel how a woman's anatomy dictates her skiing. But a superlative teacher tries to imagine how the physical differences between him/herself and the student are impacting the student's skiing.

Ideally, but not practically, physical empathy would include skiing on the student's skis. Perhaps the student(s) and the instructor should, in an imaginary ideal lesson, all be on the same skis tuned the same way.
post #46 of 51
resonate11,

You pose a very good point. Not skiers are created equal. Skiing is about movements and not absolute performance. Although peoples anatomys are different in appearance, they all work the same way, some more flexible, gracefull, and athletic than others. Learning effective movement patterns is key in becomming a more efficient skier.

RW

PS: Welcome to Epic!
post #47 of 51
From a student's perspective: I have never been in a ski lesson with an instructor who was not a "people person" -- the sort of outgoing and fun person who is able to positively connect with a variety of personalities. Likewise, I have not been in a lesson (whether daily group lessons, "ski week" group lessons, or private lessons) where the instructor did not seem technically sound enough to teach me something that would help me ski better. Presumably, the better one skis, the more technically proficient and knowledgeable one's instructor must be. I am not, and likely never will be, at a level where this will be a problem. So neither of these two important "qualifications" has ever been an issue.

What separates a good instructor from a great instructor, for me, is two-fold: 1) her ability to look at flawed or developing skiing and identify the ONE THING the student most needs to work on (is this MA?), and 2) having a variety of ways to describe the movement/feeling and drills for helping the student experience it. It is amazing and wonderful when one movement change produces a chain reaction of improvement throughout a golf swing or ski turns! It is also amazing and wonderful when an instructor's words and/or drills click in a way that makes you think, "NOW I get it!" Different things resonate with different people, and being able to communicate something physical to a variety of different people seems essential.

Obviously, this seems best accomplished in a private lesson or a "ski week" where the same instructor works with the group on several consecutive days. But I've seen it happen in a daily group lesson.

DEP
post #48 of 51

What do you MOST need to teach/coach skiing effetively?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEP View Post
From a student's perspective: I have never been in a ski lesson with an instructor who was not a "people person" -- the sort of outgoing and fun person who is able to positively connect with a variety of personalities.

What separates a good instructor from a great instructor, for me, is two-fold: 1) her ability to look at flawed or developing skiing and identify the ONE THING the student most needs to work on (is this MA?), and 2) having a variety of ways to describe the movement/feeling and drills for helping the student experience it. It is amazing and wonderful when one movement change produces a chain reaction of improvement throughout a golf swing or ski turns! It is also amazing and wonderful when an instructor's words and/or drills click in a way that makes you think, "NOW I get it!" Different things resonate with different people, and being able to communicate something physical to a variety of different people seems essential.

=I've seen it happen in a daily group lesson.

DEP
I had it happen once in a group lesson when an instructor used a visual image to explain cross over and it clicked......after not being able to understand multiple explanations before that.......it's amazing how different images/explanation click for different people. But it's really great when instructors have multiple images they can draw on to try to get the student to understand.......
post #49 of 51

Some serious mood elevators...

...such as but not limited to Jack Daniel's. Just kidding! Actually, I'm not. You have to be dedicated to the proposition that regardless of all the other stuff you have to do to make it through the day, the meaning of life is to have as much fun as possible at all times. If you live life knowing that the objective of every day is to have the maximum amount of fun, you will instinctively love skiing and people. The rest is easy...
post #50 of 51
I have given the question more thought. I think
Quote:
What do you MOST need to teach/coach skiing effectively?
should read
Quote:
What do YOU most need to teach/coach skiing effectively?
Just as each person has his or her own unique student profile, so does each person have his or her own unique teacher profile. What I need to be a more effective teacher may not be what you need.
post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
I have given the question more thought.

Quote:
What do you MOST need to teach/coach skiing effectively?

I think should read
Quote:
What do YOU most need to teach/coach skiing effectively?
Just as each person has his or her own unique student profile, so does each person have his or her own unique teacher profile. What I need to be a more effective teacher may not be what you need.
It is interesting what a change of emphasis can do to a simple statement isn't it? I would say that these are two entirely different questions. The first as was presented in the thread is a global analysis of the best/common recurring qualities that coaches.instructors should have. The second is a completely different question seemingly based off a SWOT analysis, aimed at developing a personal area of weakness in order to become a better teacher.

Reworded - the original question would be more descriptive if it asked what qualities coaches must have in order to be successful coaches - which I think was effectively outlined in this thread so far...

A SWOT analysis might also be an interesting topic to see what individual coaches see as their strengths and weaknesses... and what they are doing, if anything, to build on both.

Later

GREG
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