Steeps of the East - Page 2

This site is so sic. Man, just looking at those stats makes me breath funny. I can't wait until I get there in Jan.

LMFAO!

Hey great thread! It depends more on conditions than grade which is why eastern skiing is tougher than Rockies and West. The beginner's runs out there are steeper than Ripcord, but the worst conditions they ever get out west compare favorably with anything eastern 'hills' get in an average winter.

I haven't skied Mt. Snow in 35 years, but K-27 seems steeper to me than any of the runs at Mt. Snow as I remember them.

It's well known that Mt. Snow got that 37º figure by measuring on the downhill side of a mogul.

Yep, you need to be out in unmarked land for the steepest stuff.

You can find stuff so steep it hardly holds snow in the East, you just aren't going to find any long lines like that. Even the steepest shots at Tuckerman are only real steep for a few turns, then they go back to being pretty steep.

Honestly though I don't think its so much about how steep it is as it is about how limited your choices are and how likely you are to die when you fall. For instance a 30 degree chute about a ski width wide with a cornice at the top and a pinch in the middle is going to scare most people a lot more than a real steep open line.

Ya think? Ski wide at the top and narrowing?

He's trying to compare. The East really isn't so much about steep as challenge.

Mad River for example, really isn't as steep as it is gnarly. The degree of difficulty at MRG lies in it's tight lines.

Those shots at Mammouth are amazing but East coast skiing can be demanding in it's own way. Some of the runs on Paradise from over the years - again not crazy steep, but add ice and crud and a good time is had.

Smuggs is about the steepest that I have found in the East. Killington has lots of steep trails but nothing that stands out. Magic is over all a steep mountain, but again only a few shots here and there get radical.

I agree. Throw an inch of freezing rain on some good-sized moguls on a nice 25 degree pitch and it becomes more difficult that an 45 degree hero-snow pitch, but the question was specifically asking for steep, not difficult.

Makes my heart flutter a bit just thinking about it.

Some of the stuff in here is pretty steep, and narrow too at times. Not as well travelled as Tuckerman's, but that's a good thing. As steep as a lot of the stuff that gets the label out west.

:::

The mountains back east really aren't very steep, due to their great age and the effects of erosion, they have flattened out over the countless millenia. The mountains out West are younger and stand taller and more erect. There are probably more really steep runs at Ski Discovery, than there are on the whole east coast.

Sorry, but this doesn't look like it's any steeper than 35 degrees, and that's without the drifted snow decreasing the angle.

I think that sums up the best of East Coast skiing as well as anything. Steep? Less steep? Whatever. I like some of the skiing in the East. I've lived in the Pac NW, the Rockies and at the foot of the Alps, and I still kind of miss Mad River.

According to my goniometer, (assuming the person was standing vertically), some of those pitches are approaching 50 degrees!

That may not be crazy steep, but it sure looks like fun, and I'm on the east coast now--so where is it?

These are the Hillman’s area routes through Tuckerman Ravine.

• Dodge’s drop
• Hillman’s Highway
• The Duchess

The “snow” is often not the greatest – ice dams, wind blasted, etc.. The following was lifted from archived
photos on the Tuckerman website – show’s the surface conditions in Dodge’s drop


.
The Huntington Ravine next door is generally more rugged than Tuckerman. I think this stuff is steep,
but not as sustained as pitches in the Western states.

you have never skied out west during a freeze thaw cycle have you?

at killington, ovation is probably the steepest there, and the top of vertigo.

About Killington --

I'm not convinced Ovation is the steepest. The bottom section is certainly the steepest obvious, long pitch. I still think the section of Downdraft that is almost never open (just after the cutover to cascade) may be steeper.
And the short headwall on the runs next to Superstar (but not on Superstar itself -- that is more smoothed out) may be steeper too, for about 3 turns. The 3 turns on the shoulder of Devils Fiddle may be a contender, too. Back when they had the Sunrise chair, a short pitch called The Judge was pretty steep too.

On other eastern areas --
Sunday River seems to be steeper overall than Killington. While Heat is definitely NOT one of the steeper runs there.

The steep parts of Starr and National at Stowe are only about 3 turns as well.

If I remember correctly (didnt go back and check), the top of Goat and Tower 3 at JH are both 38 degrees, based on my GPS tracks. Somehow Tower 3 seems steeper, don't understand why.

THe fact that there are cliffs between the runs at Stowe is sort of an existance proof for steep hills, by the mean value theorem. I wonder if the difference in trails is a result of when and how the trails were laid out, rather than the underlying mountain?

You have me curious, what on (or off) the map on SR has a sustained pitch steeper than the steepest part White Heat?

I'm not saying it's not there but I don't recall anything and I've skied there a lot. (Except maybe Spruce Cliffs which isn't on the map any more and is basically a sheet of rock with a few trees that was open maybe two days every third or fourth season.)

The info that follows came primarily from this thread on epicski.com :
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=29735&highlight=steep
These steepness statistics were offered by a poster named Powdr, he gets any credit (or blame) due. I believe he is some kind of geographic info systems analyst and used Google Earth to derive the degree of steepness for what he perceived to be the steepest stretch with over a couple hundred yards length on well known ski trails around the country. The list started with Eastern trails, but then stats were added on a sampling of terrain from all around the country. Sorry, the runs are listed in somewhat random order. I've done a little editing in my compilation, hopefully not introducing errors. He tried to pick the steepest section he could find on each run, as long as it was over 500' in length, but I wouldn't call the process/stats definitive. They may make for fun discussion/speculation though. Note: these are in degrees, not percent.

Ovation at Killington (24 degrees, actually):
Paradise at MRG - 32.5 degrees
Tramline at Cannon - 28.1 degrees
White Nitro, Sugarloaf - 29.5 degree
Starr @ Stowe - 31.1 degrees
Castle Rock @ Sugarbush - 21.3 degrees
Whiteface Slides @ whiteface - 36.3 degrees
Denton Hill's (PA) triple diamond run - 27.7 degrees
Goat @ Stowe - 33.6 degrees
Robin's Run @ Smuggs - 29.8 degrees
Outer Limits @ Killington - 28.5 degrees
Devils Fiddle @ Killington - 25 degrees
Ripcord @ Mt. Snow - 27.4 degrees
Tuckerman's Ravine, NH (steepest I could find) - 45.3 degrees (damm!)
Dynamite @ Tremblant - 28 degrees
Black Hole @ Smuggs - 31.0 degrees
Ovation (lower section) @ Killington - 30.7 degrees
KT-22 East Chutes @ Squaw - 41 degrees
Huevos Grande @ Mammoth - 52.3 degrees (wicked steep)
51-50 @ PCMR - 47.9 degrees (and everyone says PCMR isn't steep)
Main Baldy Chute @ Alta - 44 degrees (but it's a dry steep)
Extrovert @ Blue Knob - 28.5 degrees
High Rustler @ Alta - 44.3 degrees
Great Scott @ Snowbird - 46.5 degrees
Upper Cirque @ Snowbird - 40.5 degrees
Peruvian @ Snowbird - 32.9 degrees
Under Powderhorn lift @ Solitude - 42.8 degrees
Under 9990 @ The Canyons - 29 degrees
Square Top @ The Canyons - 41.0 degrees
Upper Big Emma (Green Run!) @ Snowbird - 25.3 degrees!
Rumble @ Sugarbush - 27.9 degrees
Pitch Pine @ King Pine - 21.1 Degrees

Tuckerman Ravine Routes:
1 - 38.7 degrees
2 - 44.0 degrees
3 - 44.6 degrees
4 - 48.1 degrees
5 - 48.3 degrees
6 - 46.8 degrees
7 - 43.5 degrees
8 - 42.8 degrees
9 - 31.4 degrees
10- 30.3 degrees

Lower Wildcat @ Laurel Mountain (PA) - 28.1 degrees
Tower Three Chute @ JH - 43.1 degrees
Blowhole (Whistler/Blackcomb) - couldn't find it on the map
Rumor @ Gore - 28.9 degrees
Gunbarrel @ Heavenly, on the steepest pitch (a 136' section) is 31.6 degrees.
Palisades @ Squaw - 45.5 degrees (steepest section I could find - 205' long)

In honor of doggiedoc - A photo of Huevos Grande @ Mammoth Mountain, CA:
http://www.sierradescents.com/photos/2006/mammoth.php

So the top five eastern lift-served marked trails from Powdr's Google earth measurements:

The Slides (Whiteface) 36.3º
Goat (Stowe) 33.6º
Paradise (Mad River Glen) 32.5º
Upper Gunbarrel (Ski Roundtop) 31.6º
Starr (Stowe) 31.1º

Powdr measured Ripcord (Mt. Snow) at 27.4º

The steepest sections of Eastern skiing are all too small for the resolution of the terrain data.

Well, this is based on my impressions, not careful measurements (or even careful examination of GPS logs), so I may be all wet. But here is what I think.

First off, thinking back there is one short stretch of WH that is steeper than the others -- just as the flat part on top ends, hugging the chair line. Really just the back side of a big hump. You may have to discount that one hump to make my opinions correct.

With that caveat, things I think are steeper: Shockwave, about 1/3 of the way down. Black Hole (real short, tho) . Several pieces of runs on Oz (forget which one is which over there) including a short section in one of the gladed runs.

.. So where is (was) Spruce Cliffs?

Remember, you got to throw the east a few bones, otherwise their heads will implode.

Ah, the dreaded "corn snow". I've read about it.

A right of off of Risky Business just before it starts to turn left back towards the Spruce lift.

If you go to the interactive trail map and look at Spruce, you'll see a clearing map-left of Risky Business. That's it.

Sorry, Telerod. We sometimes wish that the mythology of endless, perfect snow days many of you easterners imagine for us really existed...well sometimes it does, but we see horrendous conditions as well.

Even the shagri-la of Alaska gets ice...I can speak to that having fallen down over 400' of blue ice and cliff bands. That was a near-fatal fall.

In reality, there is a much wider variation of conditions in the west than in the east. There is powder and mashed potatos, ice and corn, sun-cups and sastrugi, cornices and slabs, rain crust, sun crust. For a real treat, try sun-crusted mashed potatos over a layer of corn sized sugar. damn, now i'm getting hungry.