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Steeps of the East - Page 7

post #181 of 206

The truth about Jay

Let me preface this by saying that I am going into my fourth year as a Jay Peak employee and that I have 100+ days on the mountain each of the past three seasons so needless to say, I know my way around there pretty well. People (including myself) have been discussing runs like the face and tuckermans chutes, the upper river quai and can am, and the green beret as the steepest stuff at Jay and while all of these named, in-bounds runs offer some good steep terrain to play with, there is much more to be done off the map. I saw one mention of the dip, and while the last pitch there is rather steep by far the burliest terrain on the mtn. are the pumphouse and the saddle, along with all the smaller chutes around them. If you don't know where they are I'm not going to be the one to tell you, but I assure you that you won't find anything steeper at Jay. Early season especially before they really fill in these two runs can be especially hairy. I hiked for pumphouse last tuesday and it was way steeper than it typically is mid-season b/c the bottom had not piled up with everyone's sluff yet. Mamma and Poppa bear chutes on the face are pretty much mandatory straightlines, making them some of the hardest runs on the hill even though the saddle is probably the steepest, with the pumphouse a close second (and the pumphouse is much longer, the saddle is only about 20 meters down!) So if you're feeling up for it hook up with some locals and explore the ridge, just don't go until about noon...it's off limits until then!!!
post #182 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometjo View Post
That looks awesome: really the first shots I've seen of stuff in the east that looks western-steep. How often does that get enough snow to open and how aggressive are they about opening it?
i may be mistaken, but i don't think that's jay peak. the trees just don't look right to me- i think it's a western area/wrong picture upload.

as far as in-bounds stuff and steep goes. jay's face is steep but short- stuff at smuggs is pretty steep overall on the upper 1/3 of madonna (and a few shots on sterling if you know where you're going!).

i believe fall line is the steepest trail at MRG, but i may be wrong (that's what a couple patrollers told me last year). another spot that's super steep and still in bounds at MRG is off the long trail in the woods far skier's left heading toward the gap. it's still in-bounds, and i think there's a couple ski-able lines. but i wouldn't approach it. maybe 250ft verical, and in the thirties as far as degree-age.

if you're talking in-bounds steeps, probably the steepest i can think of is the mythical survey lines at smuggs. they're in bounds, and steeeeep. i've seen two guys on 'em, once. probably over 40 degrees up top for a fair bit (maybe high 30's- estimate, but i don't think it's too much of an exagerration cause i have only heard speak of hearsay of folks skiing it- it just doesn't happen much), and keeping in the 30's consistently for a while.
post #183 of 206
Thread Starter 
What's the mystical survey lines at smuggs? (does that mean Freefall, Upper FIS, Black Hole, and Upper Liftline?)
post #184 of 206
Don't know about the survey lines, but if you hike up into the notch there are a number of chutes on the Mansfield side that are skiable if you're either gifted or crazy (or ideally a bit of both.) Not sure how steep, but a rope makes climbing up them seem alot more sane!
post #185 of 206
so i just skied the face at jay- from the top (didn't bypass the steep section by cutting around/under the tram house).

it is steeeeep up top- for around 100 yards its probably the steepest named area on a map i've experienced in the east. it was a powder day with a great base (so early this year!!!). it does bottom-out, but then i found myself in an incredibly tight, steep chute one ski-width wide (and i run short skis). i would say it's in the 30's degree-wise (steeper than that in a short section or two). overall, a great run for an adrenaline-pumper. falling would've HURT. (try getting a sled in there, ski patrollers!)

on-map terrain is kinda bunk as far as the matter goes in judging an area- like our resident jay peak employee states.

i would say that lift-accessible terrain is the best measure of an area's toughness. for that, i would have to say that stowe probably wins from what i've seen.

a long hike from the gondola summit there would bring you to the ultimate chutes- a rather infamous area, as a member of the Meathead crew lost his life in a fall in this area. looking at these runs from the smuggs side, and up from the notch (and a google earth investigation), i believe that the degree of difficulty in navigating the ice flows (they're basically snow-covered, frozen gullies) and the steep pitch (easily over 30 degrees- probably aproaching a sustained 40 degrees for sever hundred verts) makes them an extremely tough line anywhere- east or west. not many locals ski them.

http://www.stowemountainrescue.org/S...all_Report.pdf

if you're familiar with topo maps, you can tell just by looking at the contour lines how truly steep this area is (and how this steepness is sustained long enough for the "fall-for-life" criteria to be met. in fact, climbers ascend mixed routes in this area of the notch regularly- you can watch them on a clear day from spruce peak at stowe or from the bowls at smuggs (it is very rarely skied, and purportedly only a handful of folks know the access from above). the nearby and well-known hellbrook trail is relatively tame by comparison.

just my .02
post #186 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by skskskier View Post
What's the mystical survey lines at smuggs? (does that mean Freefall, Upper FIS, Black Hole, and Upper Liftline?)
i was a bit facetious in calling the survey lines "mythical"- they're pretty unknown to most folks. and they're skied somewhat-frequently from what i now gather- sorry for the mis-information.

they appear, actually, quite similar to the area of the face at Jay which i skied recently. I was up at smuggs last week, and went to the top of 'em. short trees, exposed ridgeline kinda deal.

there are basically two lines that were originally cut- where some wind-measurement equipment was installed sometime way back (70's or 80's) for a mid-mountain to summit lift which would run from the top of madonna 2 lift to the top somewhere around FIS. it was too windy/exposed for a lift (Madonna 1 is bad enough, eh?) would be nice to have a lift there (my uncle made the observation of this exact plan without prior knowledge sometime ago- it's an obvious and great addition for expert skiing access)...

sometime back in the mid-90's, a few kids from Johnson state cleared out the skier's right line more to make it more skiable. it's a short, steep bit like the steep part of Jay's face. peered down it last week- and turned for doc dempsey's glad instead.


kinda pointless to mention, but interesting- another spot at smuggs which is really steep is the "Cut" or the "Scar" which someone decided to make a decade or so ago- looking up from sterling lift, toward madonna you can see a straight, ugly line dropping down looker's left of robin's run (kinda) access is hard to guess. brutal exposure to prevailing NW winds, poorly planned straight-line is harmfully steep and ugly, never heard of anyone bothering to ski the rockycrap it is. smuggs' was in hot water with the forest service for it... maybe dreaming, but the resort offered a reward for info about anyone involved- bad move to hurt the alpine environ.
post #187 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
Magic is steep over all but there are not trails that are 'real' steep if you know what I mean. It's an expert mt with steep trails but Magic is more about terrain than pure steepness. In all fairness it's really not that difficult, more just a fantastic little skiers mt. When there's snow is one of the East's best.

We are going to try to meet there at least once this season. Come join.

My elementary school used to take field trips to Magic. Someone must have known what they were doing!
post #188 of 206
Skied Ripcord a couple of weeks ago, not 38 degrees or even close. yea it was soft so a lot easier than ice but maybe 30 deg and very short, like lower K27 which is a lot harder. Things start to get steep for me when the snow is following you down every turn.
post #189 of 206
How steep is Upper FIS at Sugarbush? Couldn't find in this thread.
post #190 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono View Post

kinda pointless to mention, but interesting- another spot at smuggs which is really steep is the "Cut" or the "Scar" which someone decided to make a decade or so ago- looking up from sterling lift, toward madonna you can see a straight, ugly line dropping down looker's left of robin's run (kinda) access is hard to guess. brutal exposure to prevailing NW winds, poorly planned straight-line is harmfully steep and ugly, never heard of anyone bothering to ski the rockycrap it is. smuggs' was in hot water with the forest service for it... maybe dreaming, but the resort offered a reward for info about anyone involved- bad move to hurt the alpine environ.
I was looking at that a couple of weeks ago from sterling, but yeah, couldn't figure out access.
post #191 of 206


Amused myself this afternoon reading through posts on this long thread. Funny thing is it is rather basic arithmetic figuring out how steep the snowless terrain is on any run as long as one can identify where it is on a USGS topographic map. One does not need to use Google Earth or Terraserver in some special way. Just screen capture a piece of an online topo like at topozone.com with tool like mwsnap including the map scale and do a bit of basic high school map for rise over distance. So all this talk wondering about how steep this or that is misplaced and I've like responded to this in past years too. Of course I see it here on epic every year. I did look at some of the stuff Powdr posted and he would probably be the first to tell you it was misinterpretted in this post. Foremost is some of the rated steepest sections are no where close to 500 feet of minimum vertical quoted but rather likely either 40 feet, 20 meters, or less. Thus just a few turns. The highest rated spot, 51-50 one can search for on topozone as "Jupiter Hill" and then verify that is what they are talking about on the Park City Ski Area site, is minor compared to truly steep inbounds stuff that has serious vertical too. Just look at where Big Coulour drops off of the ridge of Lone Pine Peak at Big Sky if you want to see what a 100% grade plus coulour looks like. Funny how on the Park City trail map the resort marketing people were obviously too embarrassed to merely call it Jupiter Hill as it is on the map that old time miners apparently labeled it so elevated it a notch by renaming it a "Peak". Note unless the vertical is at least 200 feet or so that can be averaged, the USGS map accuracy, for steep areas over one to a few vertical lines is rather crude and not to be too trusted as any peak bagger could relate. Another issue is ridgelines tend to cornice up from blowing snow that can make some spots a lot steeper than it looks snowless in the summer like in the above JH pic and in other places less depending on drifting.

So now why don't one of you climb up on that above face with an inclinometer so we all know the truth. ...David
post #192 of 206
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundrulz View Post
How steep is Upper FIS at Sugarbush? Couldn't find in this thread.
Upper FIS at Sugabush is 33 degrees over about 400 feet of vertical. Very steep for east; plus my friend says it's very icy adding to the challenge! Other runs at Sugarbush:

Liftline off Castlerock: 24 degrees but very LONG
Rumble off Castlerock: 25 degrees but natural objects and extremely windy and narrow also very LONG
Black Diamond off Mount Ellen: 34 degrees, but narrow and short just like Upper FIS. Probably in good snow as it is a natural snow only run

All stats off of google earth.
post #193 of 206
Thread Starter 
Quote: Skied Ripcord a couple of weeks ago, not 38 degrees or even close. yea it was soft so a lot easier than ice but maybe 30 deg and very short, like lower K27 which is a lot harder. Things start to get steep for me when the snow is following you down every turn.


No way Ripcord is "maybe 30 degrees." It is at least 30 degrees in parts; definitely at the top of the fall line where it is no doubt steeper.



Rumor at Gore has definitely one of the steepest lift-serviced headwalls in the east.






Stupid computer... my pics won't load! And they are PURFECT pics of Rumor and Ripcord, showing there drops as STEEP (especially the Rumor one... looks SUPER steep)
post #194 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by skskskier View Post
Upper FIS at Sugabush is 33 degrees over about 400 feet of vertical. Very steep for east; plus my friend says it's very icy adding to the challenge! Other runs at Sugarbush:

Liftline off Castlerock: 24 degrees but very LONG
Rumble off Castlerock: 25 degrees but natural objects and extremely windy and narrow also very LONG
Black Diamond off Mount Ellen: 34 degrees, but narrow and short just like Upper FIS. Probably in good snow as it is a natural snow only run

All stats off of google earth.
Great, thanks
post #195 of 206
Once again, I must ask, who dug up this corpse?

post #196 of 206
Thread Starter 
http://snoweastmagazine.com/articles...ork/Hunter.pdf

I have my proof!!! K27 is 37 degrees!!! lol
post #197 of 206
Just wanted to bump this thread as I was taking a pic or two... or a lot more whatever lol... from here and I find this thread interesting except for the thread starter is... dumb? Anyways, we should continue the discussion I think!
post #198 of 206
white nitro at sugarloaf is 45 degrees. thats as steep as it gets in the east i think.
post #199 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum185 View Post
white nitro at sugarloaf is 45 degrees. thats as steep as it gets in the east i think.
its not 45 degree, its 29.5 degree...go back to page one and dont just post stuff unless your 100 percent sure.

45 degree is really steep.
post #200 of 206

45 degrees

that is approaching bowel movement
post #201 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiersjp View Post
I have seen Upper Nitro at Sugarloaf rated in the top ten steeps in the US.
Upper Nitro -"Top ten steeps in the US" - truly absurd and a joke!! I won't even bother to address it. Statements like that are what cause threads about steeps in the east to get hijacked.

Another absurdity:
Quote:
Originally Posted by midfielder View Post
At the other end of the spectrum, there's a pitch on the otherwise pretty steep face at tiny Suicide Six in Vt. (not far from the site of the first lift in the US) that drops 200' vert. in just over 100 feet linear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cometjo View Post
That seems implausible. That would mean it's 63.43 degrees for about 220 feet (assuming by linear you mean distance as measured on a flat map). Maybe it's that steep for 10 or 20 feet?
Yes, that's probably what it is. I grew up skiing Suicide Six and at the time the face was not groomed - ever. Too steep at the time plus they didn't believe in it I guess. I don't remember anything like that but it could have been a short dropoff that was there. Very, very short. When we'd go to Stowe that steep part of Starr seemed steeper than the face at Suicide.

The idea that there's 63 deg. skiing on the face at Suicide Six is completely ridiculous.

Suicide Six was a great mountain though at the time for kids. They had pomas - no chairs. It was much better that way - faster. If you fell off the main poma you had to come down an expert run. A lot of people just walked down. I don't think that would fly these days.

This report that ono linked to is very interesting and sobering. Anyone interseted in out of bounds at Stowe should take a look at the map and read the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ono View Post

a long hike from the gondola summit there would bring you to the ultimate chutes- a rather infamous area, as a member of the Meathead crew lost his life in a fall in this area. looking at these runs from the smuggs side, and up from the notch (and a google earth investigation), i believe that the degree of difficulty in navigating the ice flows (they're basically snow-covered, frozen gullies) and the steep pitch (easily over 30 degrees- probably aproaching a sustained 40 degrees for sever hundred verts) makes them an extremely tough line anywhere- east or west. not many locals ski them.

http://www.stowemountainrescue.org/S...all_Report.pdf

if you're familiar with topo maps, you can tell just by looking at the contour lines how truly steep this area is (and how this steepness is sustained long enough for the "fall-for-life" criteria to be met. in fact, climbers ascend mixed routes in this area of the notch regularly- you can watch them on a clear day from spruce peak at stowe or from the bowls at smuggs (it is very rarely skied, and purportedly only a handful of folks know the access from above). the nearby and well-known hellbrook trail is relatively tame by comparison.

just my .02
post #202 of 206
Take a look at this thread: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...46#post1025346

which leads to this site: http://ski-degrees.synthasite.com/

Some of the steepest stuff I found were Lower K27 at Hunter Mountain, The Slides at Whiteface, Dynamite at Mont Tremblant, Lower Ovation at Killington, Outerlimits at Killington.
post #203 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
If you can't ski it like a DH, it doesn't make any difference how steep it is, there's not much excitement crawling down making itty bitty turns at snail speeds.
Alternate viewpoint: if you can ski it like a downhill, it's not steep (Alaskan spines excepted )
post #204 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometjo View Post
Alternate viewpoint: if you can ski it like a downhill, it's not steep (Alaskan spines excepted )
I don't understand. If it's 40 to 80 degrees with a gradual transition to a run out it's not steep?
post #205 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiDeC58 View Post

Not that rugged, but White Heat and Black Hole at Sunday River are a bit steep.
I agree and black hole can be nasty with bumps with its pitch. But lower ovation at killington hits a 44 degree pitch at one point
post #206 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by skskskier View Post

What are the steepest runs of the east?

 

51.5 degrees!

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