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New race skis! Now what??? - Page 4

post #91 of 113
There were two retail skis. A men's and a women's version. The Course 66 was the women's. The course COMP 66 was the men's.

I do not know what the top sheet says on the race stock version, but I believe that the plate was much different than the one shown. The ones I've seen were all blue and front/rear plates were connected with articulating metal arms.

I think the ski Trotski has is the men's retail ski.
post #92 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
I guess that means you're in big trouble if the bases of your skis are entirely black with no insignia or symbols. : Cassina, what is your experience with giving/receiving instruction, racing, coaching, and skiing on modern race stock skis?

There is much more to a race turn than high edge angles...
I have had no experience on race stock skis but have had 16 seasons
on standard race skis which I nutted out how to ski myself and I was
told I would not be able to ski them by the ex instructor who sold me
them. I do not claim to have the racing ability that you may have but
it still does not mean you cannot enjoy skiing on racing skis. Perhaps
riding large motorcycles for many years has given me the ability to
handle racing skis. If the title of this thread had been how to win a
race on a race stock ski I would have stayed out of it due to my limited
racing experience but all he asks for is some tips on how to ski his
new skis and as another poster has said it is not uncommon for
people to be able to nut out how to ski racing skis themselves.
I will start a thread on progression from a standard race to a race stock
ski and ask whether Lessons or Race Coaching was necessary.
Some of us are persistant do it yourselfers and some of us are not I
guess and my attitude is to try and nut out how to do something myself
before seeking advise.
post #93 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina View Post
I have had no experience on race stock skis but have had 16 seasons
on standard race skis which I nutted out how to ski myself and I was
told I would not be able to ski them by the ex instructor who sold me
them. I do not claim to have the racing ability that you may have but
it still does not mean you cannot enjoy skiing on racing skis. Perhaps
riding large motorcycles for many years has given me the ability to
handle racing skis. If the title of this thread had been how to win a
race on a race stock ski I would have stayed out of it due to my limited
racing experience but all he asks for is some tips on how to ski his
new skis and as another poster has said it is not uncommon for
people to be able to nut out how to ski racing skis themselves.
I will start a thread on progression from a standard race to a race stock
ski and ask whether Lessons or Race Coaching was necessary.
Some of us are persistant do it yourselfers and some of us are not I
guess and my attitude is to try and nut out how to do something myself
before seeking advise.
I will definitely let you all know how it goes!
post #94 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina View Post
Perhaps riding large motorcycles for many years has given me the ability to handle racing skis.
This sounds very logical. :::

The hand strength I get from rock climbing also gives me the ability to perform complicated tooth extractions.

Come on....
post #95 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223 View Post
The hand strength I get from rock climbing also gives me the ability to perform complicated tooth extractions.
It also helps with the white knuckle grip that you have on your ski poles when skiing a bowl of lightly tracked powder - right after I say "let's go - follow me!"
post #96 of 113
Thread Starter 
Going the Look PX 12 route as many have suggested. Hope they're good and they open because it seems I'll need that feature rather often.
post #97 of 113
Good binding choice. I don't know if you'll definitely *need* the release feature but I am certain that if it isn't there and you are put in a situation that may need to utilize it that you would miss it...
post #98 of 113
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your advice, Greg. I guess I have not been showing my appreciation enough, so thanks!
post #99 of 113
Make sure you report back to let us know how $139 GS skis actually perform on the snow.
post #100 of 113
I think I saw those same skis on ebay yesterday, and for a quick moment thought MAYBE?, and then thought better of it. Couple of years back I bought a pair of Merlin V1 198 cm at a clearance sale. I thought I could handle it and its wasn't a race stock ski. Turned out to be just too "burly" of a ski and I sold it for $100 to a guy that's about 6'3" 250lbs. and he thought it was a noodle. Anyway, I had to admit the ski skied me.

To each his own. I saw somebody comment on this in an earlier thread, but to ski a longer ski it became pretty apparent to me that I had to engage the shovel of the ski more than a 170ish carving ski, which by comparison I felt I skied more from the center of the shorter ski. Maybe faulty technique on my part, but a ski that is 25 cm longer didn't engage a new turn as easily as rolling from edges to edges on a shorther ski.
post #101 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
I think I saw those same skis on ebay yesterday, and for a quick moment thought MAYBE?, and then thought better of it. Couple of years back I bought a pair of Merlin V1 198 cm at a clearance sale. I thought I could handle it and its wasn't a race stock ski. Turned out to be just too "burly" of a ski and I sold it for $100 to a guy that's about 6'3" 250lbs. and he thought it was a noodle. Anyway, I had to admit the ski skied me.
I'm big too -- not that big -- but hefty and tired of blowing out softer sticks. It was sometimes such an unpleasant experience -- right when I needed edge grip the most I'd blow my old skis out. Will be interesting to see what happens now. I played around with them last night and decided they are in fact WAY stiffer than I previously thought, so I take back my earlier assessment. That said, they do flex.
post #102 of 113
Flexing the skis by hand really don't give you much of an idea of how they will ski, except to the extremes (2X4 vs noodle).

The first day out, pick a really gentle slope and work on stance and balance with them. Do some ankle rolls and railroad tracks to see where they like to be skied. Garlands and traverse drills are also nice. Point them down the fall line and crank a carved turn when you feel like you have sufficient speed.In other words, get to know them before you take them up to the top of the mountain.
post #103 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
In other words, get to know them before you take them up to the top of the mountain.
Yes...

Trots,

Think of this as a first date; and in this case you're "dating up" a few rungs on the social ladder. You can't come out of the blocks running too fast or the spirited thing you're trying to ride could throw you into the trees and leave you for dead, thus negating any future relationship full of mutual benefit. If you ease into it, you stand better chance of doing things right and securing the relationship you're seeking.

Once you gain enough experience it will be easy to go out and jump on nearly anything and ride it hard from turn #1 until you trade up for something newer that performs better. Not to mention retail models that don't perform up to your standards become "throw away" items that you get ahold of weekends at demo days, ride hard for a few runs and put away wet; then walk away laughing at their poor performance after you're done with them (or if they are really bad you throw them into the woods).

BTW, we are still talking about skis right? Don't let your wife read that one.

Later

GREG
post #104 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
get to know them before you take them up to the top of the mountain.
LOL at the culture gap here. I agree with the sentiment, but there are a lot of right coast places where the top is the only option if you want to take a lift, and a gentle slope is all that is on the plate.
post #105 of 113

new race skiis

Trotski,
Congrats on the new skis. BTW, the way to tell if they are true race stock is to look on the back of the ski just past the heel plate. If there is a number stamped in gold with the length of the ski then it is a true race stock. Now for my humble advice. I have been skiing and racing (Rocky Mountain Masters) for the past five years on Dynastar true race stock 187 cm GS skis. I find them very quick (as in responsive), but you must ski with attention. They are not forgiving if you get lazy. I do also want to tell you that boots play a huge role in how the ski responds. I ski on the Lange WC 150 (the girly powder blue one) and that has a great deal to do with how I work the ski. I am your size 5"11" and 205 lbs, so we are comparable. My best advice to you is that before you get on the slopes with them, take them to a reputable ski shop and have them look (digitally measure, if possible) the base and side edge bevels. I recommend for you, if they are not at .5 to .7 degree base bevel and 2-3 degree side bevel , you need to spend some of that saved money and get them professionally ground and the base/side bevels sets to those specs. Now you have a starting point to truly evaluate the skis properly.Then go out and experiment at speeds you are comfortable with and steepness of slope that also fits your abilities. Then just work the ski with positive centered foot pressure to determine the reaction of the ski based on input. As you get comfortable, change speeds and turn radius and don't be afraid to really stand on them. If comfortable then, LET 'EM RIP. Good luck and hope this helped. Let us know.
post #106 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
LOL at the culture gap here. I agree with the sentiment, but there are a lot of right coast places where the top is the only option if you want to take a lift, and a gentle slope is all that is on the plate.
Actually, one of the first hills I skied on was upsidedown (lodge/parking on the top) on the east coast, so I've been there.

Gentle is relative, as are comfort levels, but I think we agree that finding a slope that holds absolutely no suprises for you and doing drills on it is a good way to make friends with a ski.
post #107 of 113
Oh I definitely agree with everything you said, just that little aspect made me chuckle a little.
post #108 of 113
Thread Starter 
Awesome, people, awesome advice -- too exhausted to reply in detail, long long day. Sweet advice tho -- look forward to trying it all. Very lucky to have all these tips!
post #109 of 113

A couple of other things worth considering

if this is the start of the ski season for you is to perhaps get some
warm up runs in on your old skis first. I always find I ski my race
skis best when I am soaked in sweat. As others have said and I agree
pick a slope that is uncrowded for the race stocks.
post #110 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmmaster View Post
Trotski,
Congrats on the new skis. BTW, the way to tell if they are true race stock is to look on the back of the ski just past the heel plate. If there is a number stamped in gold with the length of the ski then it is a true race stock.
Thanks for the advice. My skis DO NOT HAVE THIS GOLD STAMP SO DOES THAT MEAN THEY ARE RETAIL?

Also, question: where do you (or anyone) find this information about what makes a true race stock ski with Dynastars?
post #111 of 113
I could finally open the picture of the plate. My guess (and this is a guess since I don't know the specifics of the different levels of Dynastar race stock skis) is that this is a retail ski. From what I recall, it was Peter Keelty's favorite groomer cruiser, although I think he went with a shorter length. I'm speculating this was the longest ski available in this model, and I'm seeing 176cm versions (probably the shortest) available for a similar price. Either way a good deal on a solid ski. Retailers are just looking at moving old stock while they can still get some money out of them. All the better for you.

To be honest, my suggestions and probably those of others really haven't changed. Get to know them by doing some drills and playing around at slower speeds before letting them run.

Have fun.
post #112 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
I retract this statement... they aren't full-on WC stock, but they are not the retail ski either.
I just read a bunch of posts in the thread, and not sure if you've cleared it up yet, but there were actually three GS skis put out by Dynastar that year.

1. The "retail" ski - Angular tip, and "cap" construction.

2. The race ski - Rounded tip, autodrive plate (plastic plate, built into the ski, with two aluminum "platforms" for the bindings to mount on), full "sandwich" construction.

3. The "Race Stock" ski - Rounded tip, full "floating" bolt-on plate (ie. not part of the ski), full sandwich construction.

Sounds like you have the mid-level version. The easiest way to distinguish between the two race skis are the plates. As mentioned above, the "autodrive" plate is built into the ski. I own a pair in 182cm. Pretty good little GS ski. Always held an edge well, and fairly easy to turn.

To echo the comments of many others on here, start easy. However, a lot of people will have been encouraging you to roll these babies on edge right away, with some slow speed rollerblade turns on flat terrain, but I would have to disagree. Unless the terrain is very flat, you're going to find yourself picking up too much speed, and doing that kind of exercise won't help you get a good feel for what you're going to need to do to turn the ski. You'll find you'll have a tendency to tip inside, especially as you start to pick up speed and you want the ski to turn more.

The easiest way to get used to longer / stiffer skis is to find a fairly flat slope, and slide around (ie. drifting, no carving, etc), get a feel for steering the ski, get a feel for your balance on the ski. Then go to a slightly steeper slope and try a few runs of short radius. Then go find your flat hill and start rolling them up on edge.

It sounds counter intuitive, but trust me, when you do start letting them rip, you'll find you have a lot more control.
post #113 of 113
There is at least a fourth option in addition to those. The "race stock" ski is either a ~21-24m ski with a less beefy bolt on plate, or a 24-27 (for this year 27+) meter ski with the all metal I-box plate.

The info on this year's skis is very good and is available on the Dynastar Procommunity website. Previous year info you'd have to find a particularly knowledgeable rep, the catalogs were more or less worthless and most people found it rather confusing.
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