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Movements or Consequences

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Ok Mosh,

Would love to discuss this with you. What are your ideas?
post #2 of 15
I don't exactly know, I just liked the sounds of it. However I have given this some loose thoughts but I would like to see what develops if we plant this seed in the Epic primodial ooozzzee.

Obviously skiing is movement based. We all know that when you stop moving bad stuff starts to happen. So I think that the movement we make should complement the next move and flow together to create an outcome that is both smooth and powerful. So I guess I would like to call for people to chime in about movements that they see in others that are not complementary, and create negative consequences.
post #3 of 15
All movements are follow by consequences of some sort and the more skilled we get at what we are doing the more precisely we can anticipate the outcome of our movements.
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosh View Post
So I guess I would like to call for people to chime in about movements that they see in others that are not complementary, and create negative consequences.
Excessive arm movements have negative consequences on beginners. They have a problem staying upright.

Towards the outside rotating hips have negative consequence of ski tails loosing gripp. Intermediate to advanced skiers.
post #5 of 15
Our movements are the results of the forces we apply, acceleration is Force divided by mass.

The forces we are able to apply depend on our current state of motion and the shape of our skis.

The shape of our skis changes with the forces we apply.

There is a feedback loop; the forces we can apply and how long we can apply them depends on where we are and what shape, including ski deflected shape, we are in, and these forces determine what shape our skis adopt and where we go.

What comes first? The force we apply from our current state, but our current state is a consequence of forces that were applied prior to our current state, and our current state limits our ability to change states. To be able to manage forces that put us in the best possible future state to apply the forces we want, we need good judgment that comes with experience. Balance, coordination and strength expand our range.
post #6 of 15
All skiers go through a neutral phase where the skis are flat. The real key is where is the center of mass in relation to the sweet spot under your feet.

Having the skill to end up in a strong athletic position with the center of mass over the sweet spot at ski neutral is the key to very smooth powerful turns.

If you are not in an athletic (stable) position at ski neutral you will twist the skis, step, hop or do whatever you have to do the get that stability back.

For those lacking this skill, speed helps get through the transition quickly.

Achieving a balanced athletic stance at ski neutral is not an easy skill to learn. It usually takes dedication and practice at slow speeds
.
post #7 of 15
I like it Pierre,

Usualy any visible moves are symptoms of doing in effectivly. when you can make 10 turns that look like one connnected movement that is when you are doing it.
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
All skiers go through a neutral phase where the skis are flat. The real key is where is the center of mass in relation to the sweet spot under your feet.

Having the skill to end up in a strong athletic position with the center of mass over the sweet spot at ski neutral is the key to very smooth powerful turns.

If you are not in an athletic (stable) position at ski neutral you will twist the skis, step, hop or do whatever you have to do the get that stability back.

For those lacking this skill, speed helps get through the transition quickly.

Achieving a balanced athletic stance at ski neutral is not an easy skill to learn. It usually takes dedication and practice at slow speeds
.
I have read this concept many different ways but never so clearly. Nicely written Pierre . I am going to be repeating this one.
post #9 of 15
Mosh,
A good place to start would be with the Effective Skiing piece Katy and Meagan did a few years ago. What a great reference piece.
I would add a book called Sweet Spot in Time. Which is a study of what happens when someone enters the "zone". Transcending the technique and becoming one with the moment.
Both speak strongly about the lack of extraneous, staccato, or robotic movements.
To do this we need to begin from a balanced position, move through a range of positions that are essentially unbalanced, and return to a balanced position. Then we need to weave these movements together into seamless maneuvers with a start and finish but no stops in between.
post #10 of 15
Ok what about "Bad habbits" most people explaining their ability will alwys refrence their bad habbits. I beielve that what they are realy describing are highly evolved suvival skills. Usualy the by product of bad balance.
post #11 of 15
As I have preached here and everywhere: move only what you need to move to get the job done, nothing more, because linking turns involves repeating in a left turn what was done in a right turn, every unnecessary move one way has to be undone before going the other way.

Quieting down the movements makes for smooth skiing. Watching a smooth skier one should not be able to identify exactly what is happening, it just looks like it happens.

Some of the things I see as unnecessary, though they may be fun, is carving at all cost, over edging on shallower slopes where it is not needed to make the ski go where you want it to go, rough movement that look like blasting, etc.

Dancing instead of thrashing...

....Ott
post #12 of 15
Movement=forward movement of com towards the inside of the new turn before getting on the new edges
or
Consequence=pivoting skis for the turn entry

If you don't move your weight forward the consequence will be that you must pivot the skis to get them onto the new edges.

Is this what you were looking for dude?
post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Movement=forward movement of com towards the inside of the new turn before getting on the new edges
or
Consequence=pivoting skis for the turn entry

If you don't move your weight forward the consequence will be that you must pivot the skis to get them onto the new edges.

Is this what you were looking for dude?
::

Not sure what you are trying to say here....or even ask.....you seem confused about the purpose or context of this thread.....I only started it, becuase in another thread Mosh breifly mentioned "movments or consequences" and left it at that, but said that he would like to discuss the idea further....so to avoid hijacking the other thread, I started a new one so we could discuss it....
post #14 of 15
Hey mosh, I fixed it:

Anticipatory movements or consequences.
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Hey mosh, I fixed it:

Anticipatory movements or consequences.
It looks very enlightening to me.
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