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Flu Shots - Page 3

post #61 of 186
10/14/07 at 3:16pm
Hmm, the folks who have spoken up with their irrational fears of vaccines (as opposed to objective concerns regarding efficacy or risks) are both in Utah. Noted. Not surprised.

I don't think I'm going to get a flu shot this year...but then again I've never had a doc tell me I should.
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post #62 of 186
10/14/07 at 7:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
I don't think I'm going to get a flu shot this year...but then again I've never had a doc tell me I should.
Interesting point. Neither have I (and when I say "I" that includes doctor visits for the family). We had planned on getting them yesterday, but after I read the posts in this thread and started doing some additional research doubts started to arise. At this point I'm undecided.
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post #63 of 186
10/14/07 at 8:10pm
Some years yes, some no. Haven't had an illness that I could positively say was "the Flu" for quite some time. I work out of a very small locker room/petri dish with 30 other health care providers. Some get sick, some don't. I see people from all over the country and have to examine them. As mentioned pages back, wash your hands often and don't touch your eyes etc.

Personally I think being good about hydration, stress levels and not letting yourself get run down are a large factor in not getting sick.
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post #64 of 186
10/14/07 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Yes. The morons who award children for perfect attendance do everyone a great disservice.

Not so....the problem is the parents of the kids who are sick....and want the prize regardless.

Why not reward kids who...
1) wash their hands,
2) get plenty of sleep.
3) avoid sick people, if possible.
4) don't call in sick if they are not..
5) have good parents who teach hygene etc.


ALSO---Got my FLU SHOT for the past 7+ yrs. Missed one year due to a shortage...forget when.
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post #65 of 186
10/14/07 at 9:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I:)Skiing View Post
Why not reward kids who...
Giving an award for perfect attendance may not be in the best interest of the community if we want to minimize the spread of illness.
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post #66 of 186
10/14/07 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I:)Skiing View Post
Not so....the problem is the parents of the kids who are sick....and want the prize regardless.

Why not reward kids who...
1) wash their hands,
2) get plenty of sleep.
3) avoid sick people, if possible.
4) don't call in sick if they are not..
5) have good parents who teach hygene etc.
The above is part of how to get perfect attendance. Mom's good home cooking & no crappy school food is another contributor. My 10 yr old had perfect attendence last year, despite the countless times I invited him to skip school & go skiing with me. Once he got that 1st perfect attendence for the trimester, he just wouldnt stop, he wanted more of them. Which I could use against him, ie " With a smart mouth like that you need to stay home a day from school & spend it working alongside mom." Shocked face & immediate apology always follows. I did start to worry though when about the 20th offer to skip school & go skiing was met with, " If you pay me $5.00 I will." What's with that ? I guess he can be bought after all. I didn't pay, & he just waited to ski till the weekend & was happy.
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post #67 of 186
10/14/07 at 10:17pm
Your kid is weird.
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post #68 of 186
10/14/07 at 11:12pm
Got mine 2-3 days ago along with a few others (I have no spleen so I need extra vaccinations every few years).
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post #69 of 186
10/15/07 at 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
By refusing those vaccines (without specific and real medical reason), you ride on the backs of the people who do vaccinate their kids.
I don't believe this. Where is the proof? I hear it over and over, but never with any data supporting it. IMHO, it's just he pharmaceutical companies promoting fear to increase their profits. It's insane that they can inject so many chemicals into people's bodies, and try to make the sane people who refuse to do so feel guilty by saying they're "riding on the back of the people who do vaccinate". That's pure rubbish.
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post #70 of 186
10/15/07 at 12:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonissimo View Post
I didn't allow my children to be vaccinated for school when they were growing up so you can guess my stance on flu shots.
I'm glad I'm not alone.
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post #71 of 186
10/15/07 at 12:48am
Why would you not vaccinate your children when they are growing up?
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post #72 of 186
10/15/07 at 1:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Have you read Bitter Pills? I did because a good friend of mine had a family member that was seriously hurt from medication and he suggested I read the book. Its quite an eye opener. Now I always ask the doctor if there is an alternative that has fewer side effects.
Yeah, it's called homeopathy. Which, by the way, has never worked in the clinical setting.
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post #73 of 186
10/15/07 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
Why would you not vaccinate your children when they are growing up?
People sometimes use that quote in your sig as validation of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. I look at the question you asked above and consider how difficult such a decision is for you or me to understand. I tend to think that while it may be true that language has a profound effect on common thought patterns and limits of comprehension, language itself doesn't provide the tools for comprehension of any idea. If an inverse statement were true...that the limits of my comprehension indicated the limits of my language...I wouldn't encounter English speaking people who portray ideas I simply can't fathom.
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post #74 of 186
10/15/07 at 6:30am
This never happened before. I get a flu shot every year. Now they say you can feel feverish and get aches from it but that never happened before. I got mine for this year on Friday. Friday night, I literately felt like on got hit between the shoulder blades with a brick. The worst body aches I have since the last time I had a 102.5F. I felt feverish like when your skin is crawly and you feel both sweaty and chilled at the same time. Went to bed at 8:00PM and just watched the ball game. About 9:30PM I started to feel a little better. Weird, I never reacted to a flu shot like that. I guess it's just an immune response to the marker protiens in the vaccine so it's probably a good thing.
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post #75 of 186
10/15/07 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahPowderPig View Post
I don't believe this. Where is the proof?
Has your kid gotten smallpox this week? Or polio?

Really, your answer falls into the truly clueless category.
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post #76 of 186
10/15/07 at 7:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
Yeah, it's called homeopathy. Which, by the way, has never worked in the clinical setting.
Bitter Pills has nothing to do with homeopathy. Nor does asking your doctor if there is an alternative medication that has fewer side effects. When a doctor picks a prescription med ask him why he has selected it.
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post #77 of 186
10/15/07 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
Yeah, it's called homeopathy. Which, by the way, has never worked in the clinical setting.
I'll start of by saying that I'm a believer in western medicine. However, don't be so quick to dismiss the value of homeopathy and eastern medicine.

a case in point is my wife who has been continously battling cancer for many years. Her current chemo has been particularly nasty with the side effects. Our visit to the Bastyr clinic in Seattle to find some relief from these side effects with natural remedies has proven to be very successfull. Regular western prescriptions just didn't cut it and left her with their own side effects on top of the chemo side effects. The best scenerio I can see would be to have balance and cooperation between western and natural medicine so that the patient achieves a symbiotic result, where the sum total is greater than the either one by itself. through a determined effort to find the best of the best we have found doctors that can work together for the greater good of the patient.

And I'm sure you will find no clinical trials that support what the Naturopath prescribed, but they have worked better than the western alternative. I'm also sure that she is not an isolated case.

Back to the topic of discussion, I get a flue shot every year, and have since my wife was first diagnosed, 16 years ago. Would I have gotten one at that time if I didn't need to? Probably not. Would I stop getting them now if she was suddenly cured? Probably not.
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post #78 of 186
10/15/07 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Bitter Pills has nothing to do with homeopathy. Nor does asking your doctor if there is an alternative medication that has fewer side effects. When a doctor picks a prescription med ask him why he has selected it.
Max this is simply good council. We have been conditioned to have total trust in our doctors and not to ask questions. Anyone who has gotten very deep in our health care system knows that this can, of course, leave you a little short of the best care. Ask questions, hold everyone accountable, get second opinions, and if you don't fit books descriptions of symptoms or side effects, and you find them dismissing you, find some one who will listen to you. Also, if your questions are treated dismissvely, by all means find some one else to ask.
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post #79 of 186
10/15/07 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Bitter Pills has nothing to do with homeopathy. Nor does asking your doctor if there is an alternative medication that has fewer side effects. When a doctor picks a prescription med ask him why he has selected it.
Yes, because doctors pick out a drug that's not suitable for you.

Fewer side effects? That's idiotic and propaganda - not to mention disingenuous.

Who knows how you're going to react to an allopathic medicine. You don't until you've tried it (or a drug in its class). Otherwise it's a crapshoot. We know the common reactions and what can happen. Half of it is up to the pt: give a proper health hx and maybe you wouldn't have had a bad reaction. Regardless, have a bad reaction, call the doc and they'll pick something else.

If you want an alternative with no side effects, go with homeopathy.
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post #80 of 186
10/15/07 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post
I'll start of by saying that I'm a believer in western medicine. However, don't be so quick to dismiss the value of homeopathy and eastern medicine.

a case in point is my wife who has been continously battling cancer for many years. Her current chemo has been particularly nasty with the side effects. Our visit to the Bastyr clinic in Seattle to find some relief from these side effects with natural remedies has proven to be very successfull. Regular western prescriptions just didn't cut it and left her with their own side effects on top of the chemo side effects. The best scenerio I can see would be to have balance and cooperation between western and natural medicine so that the patient achieves a symbiotic result, where the sum total is greater than the either one by itself. through a determined effort to find the best of the best we have found doctors that can work together for the greater good of the patient.

And I'm sure you will find no clinical trials that support what the Naturopath prescribed, but they have worked better than the western alternative. I'm also sure that she is not an isolated case.

Back to the topic of discussion, I get a flue shot every year, and have since my wife was first diagnosed, 16 years ago. Would I have gotten one at that time if I didn't need to? Probably not. Would I stop getting them now if she was suddenly cured? Probably not.
This is easily explainable. I would never send a pt, esp. one with cancer, to an 'alternative' doc. People in dire straits would do anything to feel better; enough to trick their mind (Cf. psychiatry in the 50s - psychiatrists telling pts they are crazy and pts acting that way to boost population).

I'm a person of science a logics. I'll stick to that. Whenever people mention homeopathy, I wonder if they're religious too.

Astrology is bullshit. Christianity is bullshit. Nostradamus prophecy is bullshit. Magic is bullshit. Psychic powers is bullshit. ET is bullshit. Stick to that which can be empirically verified and you'll waste a lot less of your and everyone else's time.

I'm sorry your wife has cancer. I don't know if she's tried Anzemet (or if THC is available in your state [ie., Marinol]) but both work fairly well when others (phenergan, zofran, etc) for chemo side effect txs.
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post #81 of 186
10/15/07 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post
Max this is simply good council. We have been conditioned to have total trust in our doctors and not to ask questions. Anyone who has gotten very deep in our health care system knows that this can, of course, leave you a little short of the best care. Ask questions, hold everyone accountable, get second opinions, and if you don't fit books descriptions of symptoms or side effects, and you find them dismissing you, find some one who will listen to you. Also, if your questions are treated dismissvely, by all means find some one else to ask.
I am all for this - just please don't get 'med student syndrome.'
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post #82 of 186
10/15/07 at 10:24am
Flu shots are a reasonable thing for those at risk.
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post #83 of 186
10/15/07 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
If you want an alternative with no side effects, go with homeopathy.
Homeopathy:

MERCURIUS SOLUBILIS (merc.)
Study of Mercury is a prime example of how the concept of the essence of a remedy can clear up a seemingly overwhelming mass of data. Mercury being one of the more extensively proven and widely used remedies in the Materia Medica, presents a formidable array of symptoms for the beginner to study; it is a veritable textbook of pathological states.

So when a "Doctor" prescribes a flu shot with a miniscule amount of mercury, it's bad medicine, but when a "Homeopath" prescribes a higher dose, it's good homeopathy?

Homeopathic "remedies" enjoy a unique status in the health marketplace: They are the only category of quack products legally marketable as drugs. This situation is the result of two circumstances. First, the 1938 Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, which was shepherded through Congress by a homeopathic physician who was a senator, recognizes as drugs all substances included in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States. Second, the FDA has not held homeopathic products to the same standards as other drugs.
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post #84 of 186
10/15/07 at 10:46am
Did you hear the one about the guy that forgot to take his homeopathic meds one day?

He died of an overdose.......
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post #85 of 186
10/15/07 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
This is easily explainable. I would never send a pt, esp. one with cancer, to an 'alternative' doc. People in dire straits would do anything to feel better; enough to trick their mind (Cf. psychiatry in the 50s - psychiatrists telling pts they are crazy and pts acting that way to boost population).

I'm a person of science a logics. I'll stick to that. Whenever people mention homeopathy, I wonder if they're religious too.

Astrology is bullshit. Christianity is bullshit. Nostradamus prophecy is bullshit. Magic is bullshit. Psychic powers is bullshit. ET is bullshit. Stick to that which can be empirically verified and you'll waste a lot less of your and everyone else's time.

I'm sorry your wife has cancer. I don't know if she's tried Anzemet (or if THC is available in your state [ie., Marinol]) but both work fairly well when others (phenergan, zofran, etc) for chemo side effect txs.
Well it is a good thing you aren't her doc then isn't it. Her specialist are at SCCA on the FRed Hutchison campus Keep in mind that she went to the alternative doc for help with side effects not to cure her cancer. Her previous specialist actually wrote a book with an alteranative doc as guide to help those who want/need help with side effects. They work directly with the Oncologist so treatments don't interfere with free radical chemo effects ect.

Marinol she has had in the past, but is not indicated for her current side effects. Her side effects are particular to a couple new oral chemos recently introduced.

Don't let your doctor ego keep you from learning something or helping your patients. And you shouldn't speak to efficacy of things you have no direct knowledge of.
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post #86 of 186
10/15/07 at 11:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
Fewer side effects? That's idiotic and propaganda - not to mention disingenuous.
How is asking your Dr. if there are other options that may have fewer side effects idiotic? Seems like common sense to me.

I also ask if there are less expensive options.
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post #87 of 186
10/15/07 at 12:52pm
RE: chemicals in the vaccine

I for one welcome the extra chemicals, because as someone once put it, what does not kill me makes me stronger!

... just kidding. The way I look at it, the vaccine sensitizes your immune response. The shot and regular yoghurt consumption a few times a week has kept me flu-free for many years.

Of course I still battle occasional sinus infections, but since my surgery that's even improved. Those are from what we can gather allergy and cold virus induced, along with my nose physiology (darned little upturned Scandinavian nose!
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post #88 of 186
10/15/07 at 1:21pm
I've had the flu for 7 days now!
I was bed-ridden, and barely able to move at one point.
whatever happens I hope nobody else gets the flu I have... that's why I've tried to avoid people as much as possible.

What is the verdict on getting a flu shot after having a certain form of the flu virus>?
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post #89 of 186
10/15/07 at 1:28pm
you won't get the strain you currently have again, so if the vaccine is for that same strain, theoretically, it's useless. Now, if later this winter it mutates fairly substantially, you could get "the flu" again but it would be a different structure.
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post #90 of 186
10/15/07 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
How is asking your Dr. if there are other options that may have fewer side effects idiotic? Seems like common sense to me.

I also ask if there are less expensive options.

sounds good to me. Homeopathic doens't mean harmless and no side effects, that's a gross misnomer! Any chemical or substance that alters your body will have an effect desired or not; unless the substance has no affect on the body; but that would make it useless wouldn't it? Everything in moderation folks....Western and eastern all have thier places, to simply dissmiss either is ignorant and closeminded.
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