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Could it be a bad tune?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I own a pair of Volkl G3 177cm skis, which I loved for the first two season I skied them. Two years ago, I found them basically unskiable. Turns were very hard to initiate in any kind of conditions but particularly bad on softer snow. The skis were tuned at my usual shop that year and supposedly to the same specs I had been skiing for the previous two years. I also lost about 15-20 pounds between seasons and cut my ski days from 30+ per year to less than half that. My inital thought was it was simply too much ski for my lesser weight and rusty skills, but now I wonder if a bad tune could be contributing? Any thoughts, suggestions? Most of my skiing is on small midwestern hills with one week out west each year. I can try another shop but its quite a haul unless this is likely to be a tuning issue.
post #2 of 16
Yes. It very likely could be a bad tune.

Own a true bar?
post #3 of 16
The tune can make a huge difference, also if the structure was too deep it would effect the skiing.

You could take up tuning your own skis!
post #4 of 16
I know, I know I always say this, but dollars to doughnuts it is a due to a hanging burr left on the ski from the tuning process.

this is extremely easy to fix and you do not need full tuning skils, a truebar or any expensive tools.

Simply get an arkansas stone. You can get one for $6.00

http://www.race-werks.com/product.php?prod_num=90009900


Most shops and tuners do the base edge bevel first. A small burr or curl of steel is created when the side edge is sharpened. And since this done after the base edge the burr does not get removed because they are in a hurry or an inexperienced tuner did your skis.

This burr hangs down straight off of the side edge past the base edge and goes down into the snow minutely, but enough to make your skis totally unpredicatable, grabby and frustrating. they won't roll on or off edge smoothly. It would feel just like a railed ski (Base edge higher then base).

To fix this you simply run the stone flat down the base edge from tip tp tail making sure the stone is in contact with the base edge with medium pressure. It is best if your ski is in a vise bases facing away from you, but I have done this for folks right on the hill since I always carry a stone in my pocket.

Check out this thread for an explanation on how to do it and some diagrams posted by Alpinord. Look at post # 67 & #68

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=58644
post #5 of 16
I'd bet "The Ranch" A Man is spot on with the hanging burr. Easy fix with the stone and its uncounchable that shops let skis out the door without taking a minute or two to assure the edges after sharping are good to go.
post #6 of 16
You guys think this burr has been hangin' around for 2 years?

I can see that happening if someone really brutalized the thing with a belt edger, but in that case a little work with a stone isn't going to fix life.

Of course I could be totally off base, especially if the OP skied 'em once, hated 'em, and hasn't been on them since.
post #7 of 16
What do you do to "initiate" your turns? (tip, pivot, tip while pressuring the tips, pivot while unweighting then tip and pressure......)

What is the ski doing when you do this? (not letting go of the straight path, digging in unexpectedly, not biting in at all...)
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
You guys think this burr has been hangin' around for 2 years?

I can see that happening if someone really brutalized the thing with a belt edger, but in that case a little work with a stone isn't going to fix life.

Of course I could be totally off base, especially if the OP skied 'em once, hated 'em, and hasn't been on them since.
Your off base! this is also caused by handtuning. No it is not hand tuning, it is simly knocking off the hanging burr. You get a burr anytime you file, sharpen, polish or diamondstone your side edge! And normally a belt edger is used on the base not the side edge. But some automated wintersteiger machines have a ceramic disc side edge beveler and that can also cause this. But as I said any sharpening filing or diamond stoning or polishing of the side edge by should also always be followed by knocking off the hanging burr.
post #9 of 16
Atomic is usually pretty good with this stuff, but the question I'd have about a burr is that it would only effect a turn in one direction.

Are the skis grabbing and throwing you off on turn initiation?

Is there a possibility that they used to detune the tips and tails and you just weren't aware of that.

If they did a "0" base bevel this may be the case since you may be used to rolling the ankles in a bit and a flat bevel will be very reactive.

Place the skis flat on the floor and check for even camber .... could have been induced in storage .... better to check it than not.

I did see one set come out "railed" (base low/edges high), after a shot on the stone grinder ... true bar ... oh hell, get a ruler with a metal edge and shine a flashlight behind it as you work it down the ski to give you a clue.
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
Atomic is usually pretty good with this stuff, but the question I'd have about a burr is that it would only effect a turn in one direction.

Are the skis grabbing and throwing you off on turn initiation?

Is there a possibility that they used to detune the tips and tails and you just weren't aware of that.

If they did a "0" base bevel this may be the case since you may be used to rolling the ankles in a bit and a flat bevel will be very reactive.

Place the skis flat on the floor and check for even camber .... could have been induced in storage .... better to check it than not.
G3 was a VOLKL vertigo
A hanging burr does not only effect turns in one direction. What makes you think that? :

Think of your skis flat on the snow with a a lip on both of your base edges going straight down into the snow. it effects both side edges becasue the burr continues from where the side edge meets the base edge straight down into the snow past the base edge.

Se Alpinord's excellent diagram in post #68 of the thread referenced above.
post #11 of 16
OK ... and it makes more sense in soft snow where there would be more constant contact too.

post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
OK ... and it makes more sense in soft snow where there would be more constant contact too.

Sorry again Yuki, a hanging burr is absolutly horrible on hardsnow and makes your skis completely unmanagable on ice!
post #13 of 16
A hanging bur would only affect turning to one side; when turning to the other side that edge and the bur is in the air. Two hanging burs, one on each side may affect both directions.

I would still like some specifics on what the problem actually is. It could be he is used to skiing detuned skis and the skis are not detuned, or it could be the opposite. What happens if he uses old-school tip pressure to bend the ski and then tip it on edge. I would imagine it would turn hanging bur or not.
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
A hanging bur would only affect turning to one side; when turning to the other side that edge and the bur is in the air. Two hanging burs, one on each side may affect both directions.

I would still like some specifics on what the problem actually is. It could be he is used to skiing detuned skis and the skis are not detuned, or it could be the opposite. What happens if he uses old-school tip pressure to bend the ski and then tip it on edge. I would imagine it would turn hanging bur or not.
Yes the ski will turn, but the questions is smoothness and predictability of the transitions from: off-edge, on-edge, off- edge
post #15 of 16
I'm not saying it's not hanging burs. I'm saying I would like more details before coming to that conclusion. Note the problem is worse in soft snow where decambered shape may be affected by the lost 20 lbs. Would a hanging bur be more of a problem in softer snow? How about a railed ski? In theory a couple of hanging burs would make the ski similar to a base-low railed condition.
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
I'm not saying it's not hanging burs. I'm saying I would like more details before coming to that conclusion. Note the problem is worse in soft snow where decambered shape may be affected by the lost 20 lbs. Would a hanging bur be more of a problem in softer snow? How about a railed ski? In theory a couple of hanging burs would make the ski similar to a base-low railed condition.
I find a hanging burr to be bad in all conditions but particularly bad on wetter snow and on very hard man-made snow and also drier icy snow, like Colorado when it has not snowed in a while.

Really if you have a jagged curl protruding down from your edge they are not going to ski right anywhere.
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