EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ask the Boot Guys › Need suggestions about order of when to heat mold liners, shave/cant the boot, etc.
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Need suggestions about order of when to heat mold liners, shave/cant the boot, etc.

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
The other day I just bought a new pair of Dalbello Krypton Il Moro's, and they have the Intuition Silver I.D. liners. The main reason for my purchase was not only did I find out last season that my original boots were too big, 26.5 vs. 24.5 (yes, you're reading that correctly), but I found out that I'm so bow-legged that I've never known yet what it means to ski remotely close to flat. I found this out doing lessons last and seeing that there were just some drills that I could not physically do unless I was on corrective canted boots. And just standing in a ski position in my old boots revealed huge amounts of daylight on my inner foot side, with the outer side of my foot always being on edge. So I then went to a podiatrist who measured one of my ankle to calf angles at 6.5 degrees and the other at 6. Normal is 2-3, if I remember correctly. And while boots like the Kryptons do have an upper cuff "cant" adjustment, my condition looks to be too drastic for that to significantly help. So I'll need to find a good place to shave/cant the bottom of my boot to the right angles (not an easy thing either since I'm moving to Portland in two weeks and don't know where the reputable shops are). Not having actually skied this boot yet (I demoed some Krypton Pros last year), and not having heat molded the liners yet has me wondering what order to do these things. Anyone know if I should wait to heat mold my liners until after the bottoms have been planed to the right angles?

Also I'm not sure whether to have an orthotic footbed made, similar to the orthotics I wear in my regular shoes but made specifically for skiing (my podiatrist mentioned somebody in Seattle that does it). I know I probably won't be using my corks - they always killed the ball of my feet and I never knew why (my leg angles were causing odd pressure spots on the bottom of my feet) until now. The 24.5 liners are already pretty snug on my feet with Dalbello's default cheapo footbed in there, so I'm confused about where the orthotic footbed would go and what to do about it during the ID liner heat mold process. Any suggestions? Thanks!
post #2 of 15
Your orthotic (footbed) replaces the one already in the liner. Canting of the boot sole is the last thing done in the fit/alignment process. First have the shells punched where necessary, have the liner molded, have the cuff alignment set then have the soles planed if necessary.
post #3 of 15
Not to sound so repetative but in your situation you will find that the boot grind will certainly help. You will be hard pressed to find anyone that will grind beyond 3 degrees. This will certainly make your skiing life much better. However with your situation a lot of the problem is not the boot but how your foot lands in the boot. With a 6 degree issue you should consider getting measured for internal canting. This will help make any boot grind work even beter. Knee is one part but the foot and how it interacts with the bottom of the boot is critical. YOu should check it out.
post #4 of 15

You would be a great candidate for the '07 ESA Aspen boot camp offered by Mosh and myself. We could take care of the whole enchilada for you and get one big smile on your face! Check out the ESA forum. We will be able to make footbeds, dynamic balance, cant, and more, and can probably get you molded in your intuitions in the shop we will be working from without a problem.

I can get more than 3 degrees out of that boot sole if necessary!

Then stick around for the next four days and attend one of the greatest learning environments around!
post #5 of 15
OHH YEAH, DUHHH never even crossed my mind sorry.
post #6 of 15
Is that intersection closed?
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Bud/Mosh...Not that I don't think it's worth it, but I probably won't be able to wait until January to get my boots all taken care of, though. Ski season starts earlier in Oregon, so I was hoping to have all boot work completed by the end of November. (I still have to have all my skis remounted for the new sizing too!) Do you know of anybody else doing similar boot things in the Pacific Northwest?

Thanks, all!
post #8 of 15
Oregon is a short drive from Reno! San Francisco is even closer. Let's get r done. We can make new footbeds, check internal angles, form liners, and cant as needed all in a few hours.
post #9 of 15
There is a guy can't remember his name right now that practices in Seattle. He has been referred to here from time to time. I will try and come up with his name. He worked with U.S. National team in the past I believe and he would be knowledgeable.

I think you'll find drive from Portland to Seattle not too bad. Also, will drive you right past Rainier which is an incredible sight. Take a side trip to Crystal and start thinking about skiing there.
post #10 of 15
Just left a message but it disappeared. Portland is a great town. Don't forget to stop in Ashland for a night on the way if you are driving. Great little town. Say hi to my brother for me in Nimbus.

There are two good boot fitters in Seattle that I know of. But it has been awhile and the names are slipping. One is Kelly Timmons I believe and he goes by Dr. Happy Feet, other is Jim Mates I believe.

The drive to Seattle is not at all bad from Portland and the town is great. It will take you right past Rainier which in case you haven't seen it before is spectacular. A side trip to Crystal Mtn wouldn't be all bad either.

post #11 of 15
Don Svela (Strolz_Boot_Guy) in the EpicSki Boot Specialits who's who is in Warren, OR. He has been here infrequently, but may be getting more active.

Originally Posted by Strolz_Boot_Guy
I have fit just about every boot on the market but now specialize in fitting the most difficult fitting problems. Most of the time I am modifying the Strolz liners and shells before the foaming process is performed (See web site for more details). I am also well trained in Stance Evaluation and making adjustments as needed. The entire fitting process has become second nature
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 

I've been reading your discussions (http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=51282)from Bud seeing the SBS system last year, and it jogged my memory about some things that led me to this path (absolutely knowing I need a total boot fit) last ski season. You both seem to like all the personal data you can get, so I figured I'd write more about my situation.

It all happened while I was at the Mahre camp last year in Deer Valley. First we noticed that there was one drill that was physically impossible for me to do. It was to stand on just my uphill leg and lean my knee/ankle downhill to cause a downhill balanced slide. My bowleggedness is apparently so bad that my uphill ski's outside edge would never disengage during the drill, no matter how hard I tried. I couldn't slide at all that way without losing complete balance and falling down. Doing a similar drill on my downhill leg wasn't as bad, but still not physically natural.

Second, my instructor and Steve Mahre both noticed that I had a very odd ski stance that they just couldn't figure out what was going on. They'd never seen anything like it, or at least as drastic. It's that when turning in normal boots, my natural tendency is to have my inside leg lean correctly to initiate the turn, but my outside leg extend WAY out and somewhat trail behind. I think my biomechanics were causing this to be the only way I could get an inside edge on my outside ski. Deer Valley's ski shop had the special Dalbello boots (like the ones below) that have the angle attachment on the bottom to simulate sole canting, and when I wore those the next few days I could do the above drills much better and my outside leg problem wasn't as bad at all. I think I probably still have ankle strength/balance issues going on inside the boot, though, which is why I'm interested in hearing about inside solutions like SBS or other alternatives now as well.

Anyways, I'm really looking forward to this season after getting this figured out better. Thanks for everybody's help.

post #13 of 15
Yes you probably do still have to deal with the foot position inside the boot. So the changes you made to the boot sole effectivly like shaving the boot helped. That is good with your situation you will need to be aggressive with both internal and external canting.

I will attempt to explain this situation for you. You have to immagine your tibias in a bow legged stance are comming at the world at an aggressive angle. Immagine if you were not able to pronate. Instead of your foot landing flat on the ground effectivly your foot lands on the little toe side of the foot first. And, because it can pronate it uses up all the range of motion get any pressure to the big toe side. So it is not actualy pronation in the usual sense. In this case it is like a false pronation cased by the bowed legg. So you end up standing on the little toe edge of the boot all the time, and this requires muscle tension to accomplish. It is very difficult to let go of the thing that you are using to get a grip with. So you get the major doube wammy. The boot needs to be ground to match the leg first, and second you need shims inside the boot to give you something to rest your foot on so you have equal access to both sides of the foot. I hope this makes some sense. remember you always need to look at both internal and external canting one does not replace the other. They do very different things and both important to get right.

This is exactly what Bud and i are going to be doing at ESA in Aspen.
post #14 of 15
I'm making plans to attend the Aspen ESA. It will be great to meet you guys and get some turns.

Any suggestions on accommodations?
post #15 of 15
Great post Mosh, I couldn't have said it better!! Zippy would be a great candidate for ESA boot camp!

Cirquerider, I personally only have experience with the Pokoladi which I found warm, clean, adequate, and convenient to the lifts and meeting places. It had a pool and hot tubs, and a daily free breakfast in the lobby.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ask the Boot Guys › Need suggestions about order of when to heat mold liners, shave/cant the boot, etc.