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post #61 of 84

therusty,

 

right eye

I've worked at developing a routine but over my 40+ years of golf the routine changes from time to time. While I do not have a problem with YIPS, usually the "miss it quick" routine works best for me. selecting an intermediate target is also important.

I usually spend a little time on the practice green before each round but I notice no difference in performance based on warm ups.

YES, in addition to the warm ups that are a type of practice I probably spend an hour a month during the season practicing outdoors plus frequent sessions on the bedroom carpet with a full length mirror. I have numerous putting practice devices for alignment etc.

Don't know GIR, 3 putts to GIR or initial distance.

I read break and speed poorly. I can learn (remember) the breaks on a familiar course but at a resort (new) course I can't shoot within 5 strokes of my handicap. I have a big problem seeing a break that is away from the front of a green or away from the water or counter to the natural lay of the surrounding terrain.

At golf outings with team competitions I can carry my weight tee to green but offer little help on the green.

A few times a year I get in a "groove" and shoot some scores in the high 70s to low 80s that take my USGA handicap down to a 9 or 10 and then the remaining part of the season my handicap lives off the good rounds I shot during the two or three stretches when I had enough touch to score decently.

A typical 18 hole round will include one or two long puts that are so poorly judged that a 3 putt is almost inevitable. Typically 6-8 feet short or long plus one or two missed 3 foot putts and seldom a one putt.

Not a pretty picture and a Pelz school and every book currently print have not helped.

Steve

post #62 of 84

Steve, you've identified the same problem I've fought for a couple years - erratic putting.  Tee to green, my game at the end of last season was as good as it's ever been but my putting was "streaky" with very few good days.  My handicap is 8.3 and it's the putting that keeps it from going lower.  I think it was Aussie John Senden who recently carded over 260 consecutive holes on tour without a single three-putt.  I find it hard to get through 18 without doing that. 

 

It's not so much a case of misreads but poor execution.  I've tried half a dozen different grips with little success.  One thing that helped was to switch from wearing bifocals to contact lenses but there's still a lot of room for improvement.  I watch the tour guys consistently sink four to six footers and wonder what it takes to achieve that skill level? 

 

Good thing I don't make a living playing golf!

post #63 of 84

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patmoore View Post

I I watch the tour guys consistently sink four to six footers and wonder what it takes to achieve that skill level? 

 

Good thing I don't make a living playing golf!


I remember play in AZ a number of years back and Phil was practicing 6 footers as we

went off #1. He was still there when we finished 18.

 

That grind is the one thing most never see. During my winter in FL I see quite a number of mini tour players and want to be's practicing 8 hours a day in addition to gym work. Sadly many want and put in the effort-few are luck enough to achieve. Saw a stat this winter that if you take every male child born in the world this year, 10 will make the PGA Tour in the future and of that 10, 6 will be American.

 

 

post #64 of 84

Thanks Steve,

 

I'm not a golf instructor, but from teaching skiing my desire to help is unstoppable. Mainly, these kinds of discussions help me understand the game better for my own improvement. So take the following suggestions with 2 grains of salt.

 

The main suggestion I have is for team play. Offer to putt first. Have your buddies pick the starting line/initial aim point. Your only job is to set a reference speed. With this system, you can still help a lot even when you miss badly.

 

The second suggestion I have is to make one more attempt at improving your putting based on the belief that improvement is possible. I'm not talking about fixing your putting or making you a good putter. The idea here is that there are dozens of things that can make putting a little bit better. There has to be some low hanging fruit. I'm going to throw out some ideas. If only one is helpful it could cut out 1-2 strokes per round. I won't feel bad if you say "no, not going to do it" because I applaud your current stress free approach. This is primarily just practice for me.

 

Left eye dominant players have a huge advantage when they line up their left eye vertically over the ball because your aim is more accurate. Right handed right eye players are going to see the hole slightly to the left of where it's really at and have to make an adjustment. This can be done with practice, but it adds a layer of complexity to the process. My golf buddy is left eye dominant. But his old putting stance was like a common right eye dominant set up (foot stance closed to the intended putting line). He also had so many other things that complicated his putting that there was no way he could consistently sink any putts. Because he had to swing drastically across his stance line, getting the club swing direction to line up with his aim direction was just a guess, He had his ball in the middle of his stance instead of forward so his ball jammed and popped on every putt. He had a short putter and used a screen door putting motion with a wristy stroke. Now there are plenty of successful tour pros who've had "flawed" putting strokes and, like you, once in a blue moon he got hot. These are not things in and of themselves that "have" to be "fixed". But my buddy watched me make way too many impossible 20+ foot putts (e.g. like once every other round) and a lot more 8-10 foot putts (about 40% to his 5%) to write me off as a lucky putter. So he started copying my simple elements (straight alignment, left eye over the ball, belly putter/split grip, pendulum swing) and now he's making putts. When I got my belly putter it was amazing how moving the ball forward in my stance and a simple fit adjustment changed me from making 50% of ten footers on the sales floor to 90%, The idea here is that the simpler you can make the putting, the more reliable you can make your putting. Review your technique with an eye toward making it simpler. Then get fit for a putter that matches your improved technique and your physique.

 

I don't know any magic for how to read greens better, but I do agree with Pelz that most people miss low. If you're not keeping track, you should start at least for a little while. If you're like most people, there's an easy fix. Make your read of the break and then aim higher. Yes, it's bitch leaving putts on the high side, but think of this as an investment. Eventually, you will be getting your putts closer to the hole and that means that more will go in. One other tip that has been helpful for me is to read more break when greens are faster and less when they are slower. The last tip is that Camilo is on to something when he does the "spiderman" thing. Getting lower to the green makes it easier to read break. Getting down on one knee is good enough for me. If you can read either the break or the speed, you can get it close to the whole. Speed is a lot easier to read in my book. One easy part of reading the speed of a green is simply avoiding the steep pitches/design traps. Consider missing your first putt on purpose to put it an easier spot for the second one.

 

I've seen 2 ways to control speed: length of back swing or swing speed. Pelz is right when he says length of back swing is the statistically more reliable method, but for the life of me swing speed (aka feel) works better for me. The important point here is to make a choice on the method you're going to use because changing is brutal. Focus your practice on making putts to a consistant distance. Then in your warm ups simply find the length/feel to make 5, 10 and 20 foot putts on a level surface. That's all you need to do for putting warm up is determine how fast the greens are (there are other things that other players should do). When you have to adjust for uphill or downhill putts, move the hole (i.e. the spot you're putting to forward or back). In the south, you may also need to adjust for the grain of the grass (you do know how to read grain?). Add that into your putt to calculations just like playing iron shots in the wind. The most common killer for speed control is decelerating through impact. Have someone watch you. If you do this, you can learn to not do it.

 

Last fall I got into bad stretch where I started missing too many 2-4 footers. I often play late in the day when a full days worth of players stepping up to the hole to pull their ball out has crowned the area around the hole. When you've got your mechanics down good enough and a putting routine that can take the jitters out, you can just bang the ball into the hole and take all of the break out of short putts. Every now and then I'll blow it 8 feet past doing this, but I'm saving strokes over trying to make every putt at a speed that leaves it 12-18 inches past the hole if I miss.

 

Part of the reason this technique works for me is that I added a trigger to my putting routine. After I've read the speed and the line (visualizing the path to the hole), I step into position, look at the aim point, look down at the ball, tap my left thumb on the club, look back at my aim point, move my focus back to the ball in my putting rhythm, swing the club back and then through. Sometimes I get a strong sense of not being ready to swing. But once I've determined what needs to be done, there's nothing more to do. It's killed me emotionally to commit to this. But I'm making more putts. I'm making the putts because I know that whether the ball goes in the hole or not, it is going to go where I'm aiming it. Before the trigger I would hover over tough putts long enough for "thoughts" to creep in. Inevitably that will mess up your mechanics.

 

This year, I'm only down to 32-33 putts per round on average. I still make 2-3 three putts per round. Some are just bonehead decisions and some are just diabolical greens. That's ok. The trick is to get enough offsetting one putts. If you're hitting 14 out of 18 GIR, you're just not going to get a lot of opportunities to chip it close to the hole and get one putts like the pros do. At that level you get more bang for your buck by tactics for getting it closer to the pin (e.g. shaping shots to miss the center towards the pin location, adjusting the height of shots to match front vs back pins, shaping your misses to avoid being short sided). Lately I've been averaging 6 GIR. That gives me 12 chances to let my short game give me a one putt. Yesterday I shot a 78 with 5 one putts and 2 three putts. Two of the one putts were for birdies, three were for "saves" for par or bogie. Having made 9 GIR, that's a pathetic 30% conversion rate for converting off the green shots into one putts. One of my one putt birdies was a lucky 4 iron onto a par 3 ending up close to the pin. The other came from pin hunting with a wedge. One of my 3 putts came from being too aggressive trying for a birdie and the other from a diabolical pin position. I know this stuff because I track fairways, GIR and putts for every hole. The message here is that you can add a lot of 1 putts to your card (and take away 3 putts) by improving your short game, changing your tactics on approach shots or even lengthening your drives to put a shorter club in your hand for the approach shot (i.e. without changing a thing about how you putt). If you're not tracking your stats, you won't know if these things can help you..

 

I'm a golf slut. I play around. I've learned that when I play a new course to expect higher scores because I'm not yet experienced enough to recognize the design gotchas in advance. Subtle things like aligning tee boxes up to make you miss the fairway, tilting fairways to screw up your approach, or placing bunkers to change your shot/distance selection can all result in a greater number of 3 putts. There's a concept of mistakes off the tee adding partial shots to your score. If you make too many mistakes you end getting a full stroke added by finally needing one more stroke to get to the green or by making that 3 putt because you got onto the green in a tough spot.

 

Three of the best putting practice devices I've used are the track, the ball putter and Pelz's clips. They can help get you to the point where the tips I've listed above can be effective. But they are just painful to use (discipline wise).

 

Steve - when I look at your story my reaction is that I'd kill for your troubles. My inner voice is screaming that you've probably just either got some simple undiagnosed issue that's holding you back or just a couple of little tricks away from scraping a couple more strokes off. Hopefully, I've given you one idea that is tantalizing enough to try. But I recognize that sometime you just play better golf when you don't care about your troubles. Good luck and thanks for sharing!

 

Hey MikeWil - how did I do?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

therusty,

 

right eye

I've worked at developing a routine but over my 40+ years of golf the routine changes from time to time. While I do not have a problem with YIPS, usually the "miss it quick" routine works best for me. selecting an intermediate target is also important.

I usually spend a little time on the practice green before each round but I notice no difference in performance based on warm ups.

YES, in addition to the warm ups that are a type of practice I probably spend an hour a month during the season practicing outdoors plus frequent sessions on the bedroom carpet with a full length mirror. I have numerous putting practice devices for alignment etc.

Don't know GIR, 3 putts to GIR or initial distance.

I read break and speed poorly. I can learn (remember) the breaks on a familiar course but at a resort (new) course I can't shoot within 5 strokes of my handicap. I have a big problem seeing a break that is away from the front of a green or away from the water or counter to the natural lay of the surrounding terrain.

At golf outings with team competitions I can carry my weight tee to green but offer little help on the green.

A few times a year I get in a "groove" and shoot some scores in the high 70s to low 80s that take my USGA handicap down to a 9 or 10 and then the remaining part of the season my handicap lives off the good rounds I shot during the two or three stretches when I had enough touch to score decently.

A typical 18 hole round will include one or two long puts that are so poorly judged that a 3 putt is almost inevitable. Typically 6-8 feet short or long plus one or two missed 3 foot putts and seldom a one putt.

Not a pretty picture and a Pelz school and every book currently print have not helped.

Steve



 

 

post #65 of 84

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patmoore View Post

 I watch the tour guys consistently sink four to six footers and wonder what it takes to achieve that skill level? 

 

 


I'll tell what it takes: Television

According to the Pelz Putting Bible, PGA Tournament stats show putting success crosses 50% at about 6 feet versus 15-25 handicaps average 50% at the 4 foot range. TV makes it seem like they make more of those putts than they really do.

 

Also, the greens they play on are in a lot better shape than what we play on.

post #66 of 84

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post

Thanks Steve,

 

I'm not a golf instructor, but from teaching skiing my desire to help is unstoppable. Mainly, these kinds of discussions help me understand the game better for my own improvement. So take the following suggestions with 2 grains of salt.

Excellent post!  Obviously a lot of thought went into it.  Putting has been my nemesis the past couple of seasons.  I even toyed with the idea of going with a belly putter.  My theory as to why you see so few amateurs with them is that they don't fit neatly in the trunk of a car.  (Just a theory - I don't know if they really fit ).

 

I agree that the conditions of the greens can influence the putts.  When you play at crowded Munis whose greens double as Porta Potties for Geese, you can blame one or two shots a round on the conditions. 

 

A few times a season, everything clicks.  In the CT Senior Games golf tournament last year I had four birdies in a seven hole stretch but then undid it all with a quad on the ninth hole.

 

I was in my forties before I took up the game (I had spent many years before that as a competitive sky diver).  My enthusiasm for the game probably stems from the fact that I did wait so long to take it up.  Self-taught, my swing is not a thing of beauty but it works pretty well.  Allow me a moment of pride here.  My youngest daughter was the Captain of the boys golf team in high school.  To this day (she's now 29) she's a club and a half longer than I.  The local Golfer's Warehouse used to open the back door an hour early on Saturdays and give free lessons to little kids.  She started taking them when she was five years old.  Here's a slow motion video of her hitting a four iron 200 yards when she was sixteen.  She won the CT state long drive championship and at the Eastern States Exposition one year had the longest drive, man or woman, for the entire week.  You can see in the video that she holds the wrist cock like Hogan used to.  Like most amateurs I have an early release and have never been able to emulate that move.

 

I'm diverging here.  Thanks for the putting tips.  As soon as the cast is off (or maybe before  ), I'll give them a try.

 

 

post #67 of 84

Pat,

 

I too started golf in my 40s. At the end of my first season I was taking yet another lesson with a new coach. After suffering through 55 minutes of not doing anything right, I frantically turned to putting as an example of something I was doing well. The first thing coach says is "your putter's bent". That took the air out of me quick. Still, he had me make a few 3 footers then asked me to putt to hole that was 25 feet away with a good 6 foot break. I thought he was just checking if I could read the line because another hole was in the way. When I brought that up he just said "so .. move". I sunk the putt on the first try. He did not have any advice to improve my putting. But I did buy a replacement putter over the off season. Since I had not made any investment in learning how to putt with a traditional putter and heard so much about belly putters it was easy to switch. Once I got the positioning tip and the right fit, the difference was plainly obvious. A pendulum swing makes it a ton easier to hit the ball straight. Once you know that you can consistently hit the ball straight, you're putting goes to a whole new level because it is much easier to expect to make putts instead of hoping to make them or worrying about where you will be if you miss (well at least the level ones).

post #68 of 84

Mike,

 

What about using one of those digital green readers to help someone learn how to read greens better?

post #69 of 84

Trek,

 

Good news: Starting the season out with no injuries

Bad news: Started the season out with no clue where my game went

Good news: Now that we are in to real "golf weather" I've found my game.

A single digit handicap is the goal for this season.

post #70 of 84

I suppose a digital green reader could be used as a developmental device. However, they really only measure the location they are placed. A half filled water bottle can serve the same purpose. Sort of like all training aids, once you become dependant on them you have to unlearn that dependancy while retaining the skills on the course. A touchy scenario sometimes.

 

A more useful thought might revolve around when do you start reading putts? On my approach to the green I am always looking at the general layout of the green. How does the general slope run; usually back to front for drainage purposes and receptiveness but sometimes the course architect throws in a suprise. Then I look for bunkers-no architect worth his salt will ever run a slope toward a bunker just for drainage reasons. So now I have a few really good clues. Then walking around the entire hole I want to know where in fact water will drain-all greens have slopes for drainage. From there I have a pretty good clue how the break will fall.

 

Grain is another issue altogether.

 

Next I pick a single target point on the apex of the break based on the slope and speed of the putt and that becomes my only focus. The hole is no longer relavent-a properly paced putt hitting that chosen apex point will get me in or close (with a miss being at least to the hole and no more than 15 inches past) . One of Tigers long time thought's is to put though a picture frame.

 

On perhaps another tangent if you ask most folks what is more important-distance or direction you will probably get a 50/50 split. I think most professionals would tend to lean toward distance with the thought most of us can aim reasonably well (but always improve) and our goal is to make the second putt as easy as possible. I know I spend a lot of time with beginners and intermediates on distance control with the flat stick. We do a lot of ladder drills as well as putting with just one hand, then the other then combine the two. A lot of times I have them say out loud "One thousand one" with the "one thousand" being back and the "one" the swing to impact creating an accelerating stroke.

 

If consistency becomes an issue a reasonable question is pre-shot routine.Make it the same every time.

 

One other issue I tend to watch is the position of the left wrist at impact. If it is consistently cupped or bowed we have a major issue as the clubface is either open or closed at impact and the ball won't start on the target line. Simple thought-flat left wrist (for righties) at impact.

 

Another question to consider and hard to see; are you htting the ball with a level, descending or ascending stroke. I found out this winter I was hitting the ball with a 1 degree descending stroke causing the ball to push into the green surface then pop up and skid before getting into a smooth roll. Still working on that habitual motion.

 

One last thought-look carefully at your putter grip if it has a flat face. Probably 80% are a bit twisted or aligned improperly.

 

Ultimately putting is an art with a touch of science. And if the putter acts up put it on restriction for a few weeks and use another one-they learn. After all, it is always the equipment not the player.

 

post #71 of 84

Thanks Mike! This thread caused me to do a "d'oh!" and dig up my old Dave Pelz "Putting Bible". I'd read it once and filed it. There's so much in there it's easy to see why some people don't want to invest in improving their putting. After I posted I was thinking I had not emphasized distance/speed control enough and then boom - you hit it and there was Dave saying it's 4 times more important. It's not intuitively obvious that when given the perfect aiming point that 4 out of 5 missed breaking putts will be missed because of speed versus not starting the putt on the aim line.

 

My idea about the green reader was not to use it for playing. I see your point. My idea is to use it to train the eyes to improve green reading confidence. On the practice green it ought to be fairly simple to translate a readers direction and magnitude values into an aim point and speed. But the point of the practice is to get the eyes to guess what the reader will measure. It's that feedback that does the training. Watching how the ball behaves at certain values is final part of this. For many golfers this would be overkill. But this might be useful for people with the "I can't read greens" problem. Just a thought.

 

post #72 of 84

Your most welcome,

 

Interesting day playing in Denver today. I hit the ball very well tee to green; still fighting a tendancy to exaggerate the forward press kicking off the backswing creating a little open shoulder action and a resultant out to in swing with a pull to the right. But we'll solve that when we get our range open so I can put in some focus time.

 

The greens are still too bumpy and recovering from aeration/winter to get a good feel for the putting stroke yet. I love the new Scotty Cameron Newport's solid feel at impact but definitely need to switch to a slightly larger grip.

post #73 of 84

Pat,

 

What a good swing, hope she's still playing!

 

I played a little resort golf last week and two of the guys had long putters and both out putted me so I may try one for a few weeks. Maybe the upright stance will help my alignment and overall view.

I still misplayed several 20 foot puts by guessing wrong on which way the putt would break. Maybe it's my eyesight because I looked and looked at several of the lines and still could not see why the ball broke the way it did.

I pulled out an old Wilson 8803 for a few recent rounds. It sure gives you good feedback. You know exactly where the ball hits the clubface, which is good. My stoke is fairly good. I can usually start it on the intended line it's just that the direction or pace are still the problem. Guess I'll just play more often until I can work it out!

post #74 of 84

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

Pat,

 

What a good swing, hope she's still playing!

 

She rarely gets a chance to play these days - she's a senior manager with Deloitte Touche in London.  We did get to play at a family reunion in Charleson a year ago and she's just as long off the tee as ever.  Of course living in London has given her the chance to ski some great resorts in Europe.

 

I took my crutches to the course for our nine hole league on Thursday evening.  Balanced on just my left foot I could only manage sweeping hooks.  I limped in with a 51.  Can't wait be able to swing with two feet on the ground!

post #75 of 84
Thread Starter 

I hate to hijack a perfectly pleasant hijack, but......

Good news: I got out to play 9 after work today

Bad news: The first hole really sucked

Good news: I kept the ball in the fairway for the remainder of the round

Bad news: I lost my lucky ball on the first hole

Good news: My putting was great(only one three putt)

Bad news: I had a three putt

Good news: My over all game was the best its been

 

Best news of all, I've committed to walking 9 after work at least twice a week to improve my game and my health.  

Question: does walking improve the ability to read the terrain?  I really think I have a better sense of angles and distance when I walk. 

post #76 of 84

Good News: Just got a Copper Creek season pass for $299

Bad News: Haven't played a round in a year or hit a ball since my Nov knee surgery.

post #77 of 84

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

Bad news: I lost my lucky ball on the first hole

 

Question: does walking improve the ability to read the terrain?  I really think I have a better sense of angles and distance when I walk. 

 

Bummer on the lucky ball.

 

Yes, walking can have some impact on understanding the terrain. I think it also gets us into a natural rythmn. Many times when you ride there is a possibility of getting to your ball and then having to wait which (at least for me) destroys the flow.

 

I look at each golf shot in two parts. First the decision part, when I am evaluating distance, terrain, wind, target, shot selection etc, etc then when I am within a three foot radius of the ball it is all about executing the decision I made outside of that circle.  

post #78 of 84

What Mike said.

 

I don't know about angles, but walking helps you feel the terrain. The lower speed versus riding gives you more time to read the terrain and the opportunity to judge distances better. But if you're out of shape and hitting with your heart rate up, it can be a detriment to your scores as well. When your're tired, swing flaws creep in with a vengeance.

 

Aside from the health benefits of walking, you also get to see more critters and find lots more lost lucky balls.

post #79 of 84

Bad news - 7 over after the first 3 holes this morning.

Good news - still managed to drop my handicap under 11

 

Yo Trek - it's easy to get 18 in mid week if you start at 6AM!

post #80 of 84

Bad news: I lost last night by 2 shots over 16 holes. (we cut out two holes to get past a 2 ball and 4 ball that were playing slowly)

Good news: That's against a guy who plays a couple of times every week and has done for years.

 

Bad news: My fairway shots aren't going too well.

Good news: The tee shots are, as are the shots close to the green.

 

Good/Bad news: I almost chipped in at 3 holes - at all of them the ball rolled past the hole less than 3 inches away.

post #81 of 84

Finding lost balls is definitely an advantage while walking.  I used to play with a guy named Vic Daley.  He was in his mid-seventies and always carried his bag.  If we went off first we tended to scoot around the course.  Our personal best time was 1 hour, 58 minutes for 18 holes.  We'd jog between shots.  Vic died a couple years ago but while he was active he was the consummate ball hound.  He'd finance his season pass to our course by selling balls he found to a driving range.   We did have to institute the "Vic Daley" rule at the club.  Lost balls couldn't be retrieved until they had stopped rolling.......   

 

Today is the first day I'm walking without crutches but I still have the "cam boot" on my right foot.  Weather permitting, I'll be playing in my nine hole league tonight and 18 on Sunday morning.  My wife insisted I take a cart and I reluctantly agreed.

post #82 of 84

I believe Mark Twain commented on the propriety of "finding" a rolling golf ball.

I think most folks could find more good balls than they lose. I don't spend time hunting balls. I watch where mine go, look for them briefly then drop one and move on. Between the logo balls I get from suppliers and the balls I find I'm constantly taking balls out of my golf bag to put into my shag bag. The only downside is I always need to mark my ball because I don't know from one day to the next what brand I'm playing. My guess is my swing can't tell the difference. If there really is much difference between balls then maybe it's adding to the challenge  as if I need more challenges!

post #83 of 84

Judging from the number of balls I find, I believe that most folks lose more balls than they find. It's the ball hounds that do the finding. Just the other day I found 3 Pro Vs in the rough off the 18th green. People get so pissed by the time they hit the green there they just give up and go home (it's a tough finishing hole).

 

I used to have trouble telling one ball from another. My theory is you need to have a repeatable swing before you can really tell the difference. After my swing got better (i.e. I started finding more balls than I was losing), I started getting enough of different kinds to experiment and begin to tell the difference between balls. I can still remember the first Pro-V1 balls. They felt like rocks to me because my swing speed was not high enough at the time. Last year I could tell the difference between cheap balls and expensive ones. This year I'm getting better at telling the differences between expensive balls too. Try the new Top Flite D2 Straight balls. They suck for spin on the greens (not recommended at all for low handicappers), but they are definitely different from average balls for flying in a straight line even in high wind, It should be very easy to "feel" the difference between this ball and "other" balls.

 

But warning - expensive golf balls are like expensive skis. Once you get good enough to tell the difference, you never want to use the cheap stuff.

post #84 of 84

I do play ProV1s but I admit I buy the X-outs from Dick's.  The flaws are usually cosmetic and don't impact performance.  For perhaps 80% of the golfing public, the type of ball used makes very little difference.  If you can impart spin on a ball, you will need a ball that can do the dance and the ProV1 delivers.  In earlier years I got that response from Spalding's old Tour Edition and the old Titelist Balata.  I once played 100 consecutive holes with the same Balata ball and then retired it.  In that string I had a 74 and a 75.  The ball is still in my permanent collection along with the first ball I ever broke par with. 

 

While I'm still playing with a cast on my foot, my game is so bad it doesn't make a bit of difference what I put on the tee. I can't wait to swing with both feet on the ground again!

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