or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Dynastar Team Course Junior for Western Conditions?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dynastar Team Course Junior for Western Conditions?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
saw a good deal on leftover dynastar team course junior skis, wondering if that's an ok choice for western (sierra and rockies) conditions for an on-piste good junior skier.
post #2 of 9
When this thread gets noticed no doubt you'll hear a lot of "get the kid some twintips."

FWIW though my two east coast kids do just fine on race skis in powder, off piste, moguls, trees, etc. When we went west a couple years ago they definitely had more float on their race skis than I did on a 76mm midfat. At roughly 80 and 90 lbs, one was on on a 140 cm Atomic SL9 and the other on 148cm Fischer GS skis. Last year we did hit some genuine powder days here on the east coast, they weighed in at 90 and 100 lbs probably, and again were fine on all conditions Fischer GS skis - 148 and 158 cm respectively.

On powder days, I can see them on top of stuff that I sink into on a midfat. To confirm what I was observing, I used "physicsman's ski sidecut radius calculator (in the gear forum here) to estimate the area of each ski and then compared how much weight per square cm the kids were loading onto race skis compared to me on a midfat -- and they definitely had more float.

So maybe there's other considerations and obviously as an east coast family we see tons of hard pack so the race skis are ideal for here. But they really were fine out west and the usual "skinny skis suck out west" reasoning may not apply to lighter weight kids.
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Thx for the note. Posted this on tetongravity and did have people talking about the rossi scratch....haven't seen any good used ones for sale though. I'm basically confused now, may depend on what skis show themselves and at what price. I'm likely overthinking this a bit as he can probably have fun on a variety of high quality boards....
post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts01 View Post
the usual "skinny skis suck out west" reasoning may not apply to lighter weight kids.
I concur.

Quote:
As kids grow, their skis scale up in the two dimensions relevant to surface area -- length x width. But the kids themselves, as three-dimensional beings, scale up in three dimensions -- length x width x height.

Let's define the Approximate Float Index, or AFI, measured in square centimeters supporting each pound of skier.
  • Ski length (cm) x average ski width (converted to cm) / skier weight (lbs) = AFI (in cm^2 per pound)
If you rejigger to isolate width or length, so you can hold the others contant:
  • Skier weight x AFI / ski length (cm) = average ski width (converted to cm)
  • Skier weight x AFI / average ski width (converted to cm) = ski length (cm)
(Note to math nazis: Yes, I know that pounds are English and cm/mm are metric. But it doesn't actually matter for these purposes and, as you see below, the math works out perfectly for my weight and skis, so that's how I'm doing it. Pfft!)

So here I am, Joe Schmo on the Bros -- 188cm x 11.3cm average (125-99-114) width / 212 lardass pounds = AFI of 10 square centimeters supporting each pound. Heck, even on 189 Pontoons, with a 13.7cm average (160-130-120) width, my AFI would be 12 cm^2 per pound.

Compare to a 90-pound kid on 153cm skis. To get the same AFI as me on my Bros, that kid needs a 59mm average width ski -- 90 lbs x 10 cm^2 per / 153cm = 5.88cm. To get the same AFI as me on the mythical 'Toons, that kid needs a 71mm average width ski -- 90 lbs x 12 cm^2 per / 153cm = 7.06cm.

Why did I choose 153? Simple -- that's the biggest size of the 103/65/91 K2 Apache Junior, which has an average width of 86mm, well above the 71mm average that a 90-pound kid would need to hit the same AFI as me on 'Toons. In fact, the 90-pound kid on 153 Apache Juniors would have a whopping 14.62 AFI -- 20% higher than me on 'Toons.

Yes, I know that other factors influence float, most notably sidecut. And fat skis are a lot of fun. But kids float pretty well on most skis. For me, on reflection, the wonderful thing about being on the Bros is that they restore the sense of fun I had as a kid -- eager to jump off groomers into anything deeper at the first chance. Maybe the AFI helps explain why.

But the upshot is, I wouldn't stress too much about finding the widest skis imaginable for your kid. He's going to float no matter what. My 70-pound daughter just switched to 136 Apache Juniors last weekend (16.7 AFI) and her skiing improved markedly, on groomed and ungroomed alike. Get him a quality pair of skis and he should enjoy them regardless.
post #5 of 9
alpinedad - great minds think alike. but yours actually did the math. perfect.

what i find most helpful in this is now that my kids are better skiers than i'll ever be, i can blame the equipment.
post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts01 View Post
what i find most helpful in this is now that my kids are better skiers than i'll ever be, i can blame the equipment.
No, you can blame physiology. Skiing is one of the few things -- sports or otherwise -- where preteens have a distinct advantage over teens and adults.
post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
well this gets me back to maybe considering the dynastars again...they are tempting as heck, about $130 with look bindings including shipping for new skis.....
post #8 of 9
How'd they go from $60 to $130? Backcountryoutlet.com has 7-DIN Looks for under $25.
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
How'd they go from $60 to $130? Backcountryoutlet.com has 7-DIN Looks for under $25.
the skis are 65 shipped and they have the nova 10 binding for 60...also some others on ebay seperately...so is the conclusion that while these aren't perfect for him they'll still be acceptable as an overall ski out here? i've got a couple of guys showing me used sl 11's with 310 in his size for about $260....seems a tad on the high side for used ones.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Dynastar Team Course Junior for Western Conditions?