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New Resort @ Tamarack, ID?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
The Fairmount is going to have a big Expansion at Tamarack

http://www.fairmonttamarack.com

They are giving gala parties for investors or future investors in the San Francisco area. Do you see it a viable project? And do you think it is worthwhile as an investor. The pitch is that the place will rival Sun Valley and or Vail....
post #2 of 20
I have been to McCall ID and skied Brundage... it is a very under-developed area (kind of refreshing when skiing these days) and very pretty area. Being right on the lake, I think they have great potential for developing a nice resort, but they WILL have to do something about the drive from Boise to the mountain. The road sucks, and takes forever. Luckily there is space that if the area ever grew, they could put a small airport in the valley if needed. Another drawback is that the snow is quite variable. One season there is hundreds of inches, and the next season there might be less than 100 inches of total snowfall... or it might all come in one dump for the entire season. I am impressed with how much they have developed the mountain since I was there in 2005 (there was no such thing as lifts over there at that point I don't think). It will be interesting to see how it goes...
Later
GREG
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Currently, per yahoo ski and snow, there is 1,100 acres of skiable terrain. The proposed expansion is ultimately a 11,000 acres of lift served skiable terrain. If they were successful, this will be the largest ski resort in North America, bigger than WB's 9000 acres. I am wondering their projection/proposal is attainable and if the infrastructure can support such a resort. In addition, would that get the attention of those environmentalist and tank the project?
post #4 of 20
Environmentalists could be a problem... I seem to remember them halting the project initially (could be wrong though). Based on the current expansion rate, they could reach their projected size. There is so much space up there that is undeveloped and it is such a depressed area that I suspect the expansion will go unchallenged as long as it successfully brings in revenue. The ski areas that are there now are just that - ski areas - not resorts. This will put a whole new spin on that town... and could turn it into the next Lake Tahoe. I will say that the locals there were great, and my stay there was a pleasure (some very cute named early 20-something girl named Nina offered to take me up into the mountains to show me natural hot springs... etc.)... very good trip. Honestly, I hope they can do it since it will add more skiing to the US, and that is always a good thing. As I recall, it was also a very reasonably priced place to stay and eat (good food in a few places).
Later
GREG
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwan1 View Post
The pitch is that the place will rival Sun Valley and or Vail....
I'm a local and I ski Tamarack once or twice a year. I don't forsee the place giving Sun Valley or Vail a run for the money. I do think it has the potential to be a very respectable medium size resort.

The mountain doesn't have the terrain for consistently pitched fall line runs. Sort of a roller coaster experience on most. It can be fun but not the place I would like to make my main ski destination. The resort flanks the east side of a long north/south running mountain ridge. While there is room for expansion both north and south, it won't really change the experience from the runs already there. Another issues is that the base area is pretty low elevation (roughly 4900') for a ski area in these parts.

Lots of construction at the base area this summer. Should bring better options for dining, shopping and other amusements this year. It doesn't mean much to me but I think it does to those looking for that resort experience.

I'm sort of pessimistic about the investment potential at this point. Prices are pretty lofty already and there are lots of units already finished. I doubt that rental income is helping many owners make their payments. Summer or winter, go up there and there aren't too many people around.
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
hmmm.... Sounds like a Northstar like.... However you cannot equate this to Northstar, even the terrains are similar. Northstar's success has its reasons and not too many resorts can equate that.

I don't think you need the steep and deep to be super successful, a half way decent ski destination resort could bring in good money and be profitable. A stand alone resort like Tamarak... I don't know... Could it fair with Schweitzer/Sandpoint? Its yet to be seen......
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
or it might all come in one dump for the entire season.
I lived in Idaho for quite a while ( and skied Brundage alot even before I moved to Idaho ), but I have *NEVER* seen this happen at Brundage, not even close. ( I haven't even seen it happen at Bogus. )
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer View Post
Another issues is that the base area is pretty low elevation (roughly 4900') for a ski area in these parts.
I think that's a HUGE issue.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahPowderPig View Post
I think that's a HUGE issue.
Yeah. Tamarack's 2800' vert is a two lift ride up the mountain. The lower chair covers about 1800' and the upper about 1000'. It would seem to make more sense to have reversed them. That way you could get longer runs when doing laps on the top, especially useful when snow conditions aren't great at the bottom.
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahPowderPig View Post
I lived in Idaho for quite a while ( and skied Brundage alot even before I moved to Idaho ), but I have *NEVER* seen this happen at Brundage, not even close. ( I haven't even seen it happen at Bogus. )
I was there in 2005 and this was exactly the case. Most of the snowfall came in January of that year and then it almost never snowed again for the rest of the season. I was there the first week of March for USCSA National Championships and it was 60 - 70 and sunny all week. The locals said that they had not received any new snow in well over a month, and there was significantly less snow than their usual season. There was enough snow on the mountain to ski, but it certainly wasn't great conditions. I was glad that I was there for the race and not there to have fun skiing.
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer View Post
Yeah. Tamarack's 2800' vert is a two lift ride up the mountain. The lower chair covers about 1800' and the upper about 1000'. It would seem to make more sense to have reversed them. That way you could get longer runs when doing laps on the top, especially useful when snow conditions aren't great at the bottom.
Good point. Was it designed by some guy in NYC like a few other resorts I know of?

Thanks for your unbiased and level headed opinion of the place. I've never been there but have heard both the hype and the negative. Might be worth a road trip from SLC to check it out.
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
When Tennis stars got involved, it surely will be an upside down ski area....
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
I was there in 2005 and this was exactly the case. Most of the snowfall came in January of that year and then it almost never snowed again for the rest of the season. I was there the first week of March for USCSA National Championships and it was 60 - 70 and sunny all week. The locals said that they had not received any new snow in well over a month, and there was significantly less snow than their usual season. There was enough snow on the mountain to ski, but it certainly wasn't great conditions. I was glad that I was there for the race and not there to have fun skiing.
I think you could have visited a lot of places in the west in 2005 and found similar conditions. Brundage averages more than 300" a year and has the best snow conditions in the region. Say what you will about the time you were there but it wasn't typical and it isn't a good basis for a summary assessment.
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by powstash View Post
Good point. Was it designed by some guy in NYC like a few other resorts I know of?

Thanks for your unbiased and level headed opinion of the place. I've never been there but have heard both the hype and the negative. Might be worth a road trip from SLC to check it out.
A Tamarack/Brundage duo would be a worthy road trip. I'd recommend staying in McCall rather than at Tamarack. At this point, better choices for lodging and restaurants.
post #15 of 20
Tamarack is a real estate development company that offers skiing as a real estate amenity. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but from the description of the terrain I've seen it doesn't make for a particularly thrilling destination resort for a lot of us.

They've got some good people on staff. They hired a lot of people from Copper. Rather, they hired one person from Copper and he turned around and hired a dozen more. Most of them are still up there, so it must say something about the development.

I don't know anything about the owners. It's all privately owned with some massive development loans backing them.
post #16 of 20

Tamarack

Investment Opportunities. You have to live here to realize how few people live in Idaho. I wouldn't compare Tamarack with Northstar-Booth Creek Ski Holdings (Nstar) really knows their stuff . Tamarack will have to prove they're more than a RE company. Probably the time time to invest in Tamarack was 5 years ago unless you have some real deal. Beware salesmen, sales pitches etc. The McCall area is/has really grown; golf, horse stables, shopping, skiing, fishing, boating etc. It is becoming a pretty popular summer area. Rival to Sun Valley, Vail, Tahoe, JH etc for skiing - Not probably in my Life Time. Just my opinion and .2 cents.:

The real test is you have to see our Ski runs midweek. They are magnicently empty and I don't mean uncrowed I mean sometimes zero people on a run or a whole hill side. Vail SunValley etc. are really destination resorts and actually have people/skiers/tourist/foreigners* on them during the week.

* True Northern Idahoans call Tourists - Foreigners.

But tourists are welcome - just don't come midweek and mess up our little hills with all that crummy snow on them. Please!!!
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Can this rival Schweitzer/Sandpoint? Afterall they are all in ID.
post #18 of 20

Tamarack

Jacwan1, What do you mean Rival?
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
I mean compare to Schwiester, can this be better in few years time? I was in Schwiether before. The towns en route before Sandpoint was pretty depressing, but not Sandpoint. I guess Sandpoint became rich because Schweitzer. In the same token, maybe Tamarack or Macall will benefit from this ski area.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer View Post
A Tamarack/Brundage duo would be a worthy road trip. I'd recommend staying in McCall rather than at Tamarack. At this point, better choices for lodging and restaurants.
I have had a great time at both places. Tamarack would be more for begginer skiers. It was not enough constant vertical for having fun. Brundage has constant vertical through out the mountain.
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