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# Let's analyze another Herman Maier shot

I find Frames 4/5/6 interesting.

In frame 4, the inside ski is carrying quite a bit of weight. This is expected on an inclined turn entry.

However, by frame 5, the weight has been nearly completely removed,as evidenced by the amount of bend in the outside ski vs the inside ski. Also, notice that the distance that HM travels accross the hill between 4/5 and 5/6 is different -- there is a tremendous lateral deceleration between frames 4 and 5,and consequently, a huge increase in outside ski loading, as we'd expect to see when trying to turn at these speeds.

Note that while the camera keeps taking shots at a regular interval, he has all but stopped moving accross the hill between frames 5 and 6. This is an excellent example of getting a lot of direction change done in the upper half of the turn.

Also, if you look at the actual distance travelled between frames 4/5 and 5/6 shows that he is accellerating downhill and gaining speed along his chosen line between frames 5/6.

Frame 6 shows the re-appearance of some of the weight on the inside ski. But only on the tail.This is consistent with the outside edge giving way, as it appears that HM has lost some grip trying to stand on the outside ski. Regardless, IMO, the airborne tip does not indicate the presence of a massive amount of weight. Frame 6 may also be the onset of a weight transfer, but if the turn is anything like the previous turn, frames 1 and 2 show very little weight on the inside ski.

OK folks, have at it!
Looks like he's making a right turn.
You nailed it.
Here is my MA from an other thread of the same sequence.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by tdk6 He flexes his right old outside leg that becomes his new inside leg from frame 1 through out the whole sequence. He extends his left new outside leg from frame 2 - 4. One can argue that neutral is not frame 2 but that does not change the fact that his old outside leg flexes a considerable ammount before any extention of his left leg occours. This is what we call an OLF relese. As pressure is applied in frame 5 he maintains firm shin pressure with his left leg slightly flexed but flexes even more later on as more pressure is applied and in frame 6 he prepares for relesing the turn. Generally speaking, long leg/short leg. Dynamic flexion and extention through out the whole sequenze by both legs. The reason the outside leg remains a bit flexed and bent at the knee as pressure is at the most is so that he can push on it if needed. You cannot push on a fully extended leg.
I like those subtle differences between 4 & 5. Higher edge angle in 5 and more angulation and counter, but a bigger difference I see is in the inside leg flex in 5 relative to 4. I actually think the outside leg starting to flex from its straight posture in frame 5 maybe contributing to the inside ski being loaded more in frame 6.
What do you guys think Herman was thinking during this sequence?

What was his intent?

What would he do differently if the gate were offset across the slope another 5 feet?

How would this change the timing of the weight transfer?
He's skiing at Beaver Creek.
This burst sequence has some remarkable features. Didya notice how the fore and aft pressure distribution along the skis varies in 4,5 and 6?
It looks like he is adapting to an adjustment to his line . Just as some suspected in the other shot. It looks like to me he is using the inside ski to get a better bite to square his line off for the upcoming gate.
There is some pressure on the tail of the inside here, but the outside ski is still very dominant -- the inside ski tip is off the snow.

Look at the shovel pressure in 4, mid-body pressure in five, and tail pressure in 6. That's the classic "working" of the ski.
Yeah the outside is getting very much bent. Would the fact he is moving his mass towards the gate account for some loading of the inside ski ? It looks like a fine tune adjustment to his line by one of the best ever.
Not necessarily. Merely turning will move the mass towards the gate. I'm seriouisly wondering how much that weighting is a bit of a slip and the outside leg flexion is a slight recovery/adjustment,vs. how much of that flexion is his intent to straighten the turn.
His mass moves around in a seemingly perfect line Yet his skis line seems to be tracking a different turn shape. Could he be letting the skis run knowing they will be where he needs them later in the turn ? By the time he gets to the gate his balance is back over his skis.
I just lost a post!

For sure he is aware of both paths of CM and skis. Look at frames 1/2/3. Frames 1 and 2 set up that inclination as the skis are allowed to cross under the body. In 3, there is inclination only, and by frame 4, angulation is appearing, all designed to deflect the CM on it's way downhill.

Is there any chance that he started the turn a little early?
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BigE I just lost a post! For sure he is aware of both paths of CM and skis. Look at frames 1/2/3. Frames 1 and 2 set up that inclination as the skis are allowed to cross under the body. In 3, there is inclination only, and by frame 4, angulation is appearing, all designed to deflect the CM on it's way downhill. Is there any chance that he started the turn a little early?
This is a fairly common progression for WC athletes. It takes a great deal of strength and skill to pull it off. As a recreational skier I set up my counter movements much earlier (as early as possible) because I don't have the strength and skills to add them that late in a high speed turn.
Alright, BigE, nuttin better to do at the moment so I guess I'll take a stab.

To post 1...

Looks like a steered entry into the new turn to me. After frame 2 the skis are released and pivoted into the new turn (not grossly), by frame 4 the steering angle is somewhat across the direction of travel. I don't know how you determined the inside ski is carrying "quite a bit of weight", I don't have a clue what the distribution might be. I don't think either ski is fully engaged in frame 4, but I do believe he is working them in the snow to start his redirection while continuing to drift to his left before completely engaging the skis at about frame 5 - as you say with the outside ski loaded and de-cambered at that point.

I'd agree the movement across the hill stopped between 5/6 and in 6 he's off in the new direction.

I would say the acceleration downhill is already showing clearly back up at 3/4 and continues as you say thru 4/5 & 5/6.

I would agree some weight is on the inside ski, how much ...who knows. I don't know about the outside ski giving away - maybe so, how can ya tell in a still? Can't say if this turn will end like the last or not - how would we know at this point (frame 6)?

-----------------------------------------

To post 10...

Shovel pressure in 4? Well, OK. Looks like a ton in 5 too though. All the way to tail pressure in 6? ...I don't see that just yet. What are the tell tales? He still looks fairly deep in this turn at 6, if he has already moved to the tail of the ski, how is he keeping the shovel of ski engaged?

Chris
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BigE I'm seriouisly wondering how much that weighting is a bit of a slip and the outside leg flexion is a slight recovery/adjustment,vs. how much of that flexion is his intent to straighten the turn.
It is pretty noticeable that his outside leg is getting more than typical flexion towards the apex of the turn, but it appears to me to be part of a more general collapse we see in frame 6. If I were a betting man I'd guess he was intending to straighten up, but I'm not...so I'll just let you fellows figure it out. :
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Max_501 This is a fairly common progression for WC athletes. It takes a great deal of strength and skill to pull it off. As a recreational skier I set up my counter movements much earlier (as early as possible) because I don't have the strength and skills to add them that late in a high speed turn.
I dont think its a question of you being strong enough. Its just skiing with short pressure. It helps get a better gripp on those icy tracks and it helps speed to accelerate. Such conditions and skiers intent are offcourse not common outside racing tracks.

### His A frame is not like my A frame...

Looking at frame 3, its hard to see for sure because frame 4 blocks, but it appears that his new outside ski is tipped much further than his new inside ski based on the orientation of his legs. By frame 4 this is almost entirely resolved. When this happens in my skiing I think it's because I have too much lateral separation and I have to move my hips a long distance basically dragging my outside ski along. I find it hard to keep the outside ski pressured at this time as well.

For HM he does not appear to have ANY trouble reaching his desired edge angles by frame 4 and ripping a really nice turn. It looks almost like his transition is so fast that there is no opportunity to decrease lateral separation as his vertical separation goes to zero, and his transition is all the way across and in to the new turn so fast that the skis are never tracking in this orientation... just floating ever so briefly.

I'm not sure that there's anything I can take away from his skiing, because there's no way I could move that fast and stay coordinated and in balance.

Not a good example to analyze due to the blockage in an important 3rd frame (IMHO)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Richie-Rich Not a good example to analyze due to the blockage in an important 3rd frame (IMHO)
What would you like to see in frame 3? Only thing that is blocked is his left foot from the knee down.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by abertsch Looking at frame 3, its hard to see for sure because frame 4 blocks, but it appears that his new outside ski is tipped much further than his new inside ski based on the orientation of his legs. By frame 4 this is almost entirely resolved.
I see completely different things.... In frame 3 HM ouside ski is not tipped much further than his new inside ski is. He is also close to weightless at this stage. In frame 4 you can see how he rotates his outside legg and points his knee into the turn. That can be also considered knee angulation. Look at how much more his outside leg is tilted in frame 5 compared to the inside one. A-frame, not parallel shins.

Maybe interesting to compare to Bode in a similar turn.

Doessn't it look like some degree of upper body steering in 4 and 5?
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Max_501 Maybe interesting to compare to Bode in a similar turn.
Do you see any similarities or differences?
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Lars Doessn't it look like some degree of upper body steering in 4 and 5?
What do you mean by steering? I see upper body counter 1 that becomes antisipation 2-3 that becomes counter 4-5-6 again. Bode does the exact same.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by tdk6 Do you see any similarities or differences?
Maier, clearly a Real Man, doesn't use those curve-ed poles...
I have no business posting on this, but that 6th frame of HM is so beautiful I just can't help commenting. He looks so on & relaxed in frame 6 I could just stare at it for hours. It almost looks like his left hand is even opening up in relaxation. He's just riding it out in perfection there. WOW.

### beware of dogs

Quote:
 Originally Posted by bud heishman What do you guys think Herman was thinking during this sequence? What was his intent? What would he do differently if the gate were offset across the slope another 5 feet? How would this change the timing of the weight transfer?
Here come the worms.
Herman is in dynamic counterbary between frames 3 and 4. The bending of his skis is deflecting his inertial mass creating a localized gravitic affect. He is in a parallel dimention to the observer. (During gravitic affect a phenomen called "the Hutchinson Effect" occures where the experimenters intentions skew the results of the experiment.) Hermans intent is clearly to go fast and hold his line. Skillful manupulation of gravitics coupled with the Hutchinson effect fufills his wish and he is fast and on his desired line.
Release the hounds.
"In the case of permanent insanity the exits to the theater have been blocked, usually because knowledge of the show outside is so much worse. The insane person is running a private unapproved film which he happens to like better than the current cultural one. If you want him to run the film everyone else is seeing, the solution would be to find ways to prove to him that it would be valuable to do so. Otherwise why should he get "better"? He already is better...From an internal point of view insanity isn't the problem. Insanity is the solution."
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