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Novices, when, where, with whom, alcohol on the slopes and so forth

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
In the past few days I've read around newspapers and in other forums the following sentences:
-The Carabinieri (Italian, national, military police force) fined
me 30€ for excess speed while skiing
-Carabinieri raided a mountain hut after slopes were closed
That means that the hut was in the middle of the slopes, and that lifts had been closed for the day (it was 1700ish, carabinieri used an elicopter and several ski-doos to round up the place!!!).
27 people fined for "evident" drunkness (aka they were not tested bc they were so full that their condition was all too apparent), unknown dropped drugs on hut floor, discovered by anti-drug dog (yes, they went it with that too).

Last but not least, heard this morning on the radio while driving to the office (hope it was a joke...):
Parliament is discussing a law which will contain:
-Helmets will have to be worn by everyone who is under 18 of ages
-A 'license' will be issued to every skier/boarder and
runs will be paired to said license (that means that in the licence will be written which kind or runs one can ski/board on)
-Resorts will have to keep the two groups on separate areas
-speed limits to be enforced

This has all be done in the wake of "let's send a strong message"
To whom?
I guess it will take decades for such a law to become real and realstically affordable for everyone (resorts and police forces and GP, that means us)

Every year around this period, rumors of such law(s) come to life, to fade as soon as the snow starts to melt...
Let's wait and see...
Meanwhile, feel free to discuss...
post #2 of 12
is that related to this matteo?

From the Guardian

Italy may segregate snowboarders and skiers

Sophie Arie in Rome
Thursday January 16, 2003

Italy's ski resorts may soon have segregated pistes after a skier was killed in a collision with a snowboarder, reviving pressure for better safety on the country's slopes.
"We are thinking of having separate pistes for skiers and snowboarders within the same resort," Mario Pescante, undersecretary for sport at the culture ministry, said. "We are also considering making helmets obligatory for under-14-year-olds, and perhaps separating children from adults on pistes."
Last weekend's accident at the glitzy Alpine resort of Cortina d'Ampezzo, in which a 36-year-old skier from Parma died, revived the ski safety debate that began after the number of accidents rose by 15% last year compared with 2001.
There have been calls for everything from permits for access to difficult pistes to tighter controls on ski or snowboard "pirates", who hurtle down slopes, often sending the more cautious tumbling out of the way.
Fines already exist for misbehavers, but are rarely enforced.
Snowboarding, seen as cooler and more fun than traditional skiing, has boomed in Italy in recent years. Snowboarders, often criticised by skiers for being reckless and inconsiderate, are predicted to outnumber skiers by 2005.
Mr Pescante said he would meet officials from Italy's Alpine ski regions today to discuss new nationwide regulations.
"There's a problem with the signs in Italy. A piste that is considered black in one resort might be green in another," he said, referring to the international colour scheme which rates the most difficult slopes black and the easiest green.
Officials were studying similar restrictions already in effect in Austria and Switzerland, he said, but Italy was not considering banning snowboarders from any resorts.
"I don't think this sounds like a good idea," said Stefano Paniconi, 28, one of the 20% of Italians who snowboard rather than ski. "I'm sure snowboarders will be banned from the best slopes. You can't make skiing totally safe. We do this sport in part because it's dangerous. The more dangerous it is, the more beautiful."

sorry - i know nothing about this - just copied it from somebody else...
post #3 of 12
Geez, they have GOT to be kidding! Like I said, its so much easier to LEGISLATE, rather than EDUCATE. :

They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they made the people
Have a license to ski em'

Don't it always seems to show
That you don't know what you got till
its gone.......
post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 
Althought I've now bought a copy of a dayly paper ( IL GIORNO )
And, BOOMING titles aside (FINES HELMETS AND LICENCES ON THE SLOPES is printed on today's front page) the text is full of
conditional verbs...
I think that in the end they'll make the helmets obligatory for the under 18, but as for separated slopes for boarders and
skiers...or as for the licence...
Excessive alcohol consumption during skiing hours is something I'd like to see stopped, definitely.
Sorry Fox. After hours is another thing thought.
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Originally posted by Lisamarie:
Geez, they have GOT to be kidding! Like I said, its so much easier to LEGISLATE, rather than EDUCATE. :

They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they made the people
Have a license to ski em'

Don't it always seems to show
That you don't know what you got till
its gone.......
Lisamarie, my Yes was meant as an answer to disski, because I was writing at the same time as you,nevertheless, I do hope that they are kidding (this time too, at least partially), knowing my MPs, and precedents (it's not the first time over the years that I hear such declarations), hope that they'll come to their senses and opt for, like you say, education rather than for legislation. Again, I'll cast my vote for helmets, and against alcohol abuse (I said abuse, like excessive, not against a cup of bombardino [img]smile.gif[/img] )
Another thing that I did not mention is that the legislators are contemplating to oblige people to be insured against damages they can inflict unto others...
post #6 of 12
My step daughter said to me "I believe that people are sheep and sheep need to be herded, that's why I'm a ......"
Fill in any political party, no need to mention what she said, since it can apply to anyone. But when people fail to use their basic common sense, they end up being herded.
post #7 of 12
The Carabinieri, one of a kind : . Here my 2 smarta** cents:

About the raid: I have sympathy, IMHO the mid-mountain partying has gone out of hand in some places in the last decade (i have to add, i don't know the raided place myself, so i am coming from a generalization).
I ski with a bad hangover every now and then. I like partying. But WHILE skiing? It's just not the time and the place. If they were partying in the US like they do in Austria (or obviously Italy), they would send the National Guard, i use to tell my skiing buddies here. So finally it happened in Italy!

About the legislation: You're propably right, this is going away as soon as the snow melts. But until then, isn't this following an all to well known pattern (in Italy (no flame!))?
* You've got to have a big red reflecting sign on your trailer or RV. Introduced in the earliy 90's, if i remember right.
* At Lago di Garda, windsurfers are required to wear a PFD (personal floatation device). I think it's a 175Euro fine.
While the sign is just silly, in shortboard sailing, a PFD is outright dangerous. So it happens that the boardsailors pay the "launch fee" so they do not have to drown. (Confused? It's pretty ugly getting caught under a sail with a PFD on, trying to catch the gear swimming, and to position yourself for a waterstart).
There might be hope, though. As opposed to windsurfing, skiing and boarding is a multi-billion-Euro business, and Italy has a pretty good share in it. I bet the local politicians and lobbyists are working extra time. Somewhere along the we-can't-afford-this-people-will-go-somewhere-else line. Or, maybe the skiers among the legislators find out that their kids are all boarders, having all the good reasons to spend the day on their own w/o parential supervision . In this case, it would have worked out like those taxes on the rich, announced with big fanfare, getting sacked by politicians finding out that they themselves would have to pay, too.
It's going to be interesting to see how this ends, Matteo, keep us informed, please!
post #8 of 12
I thought they were more liberal about where/what people skied/boarded over on that side of the pond.
post #9 of 12
Is this fining being brought on to raise revenue, or are we starting to get plagued with more ambulance chasers?

Matteo, I agree with limiting on-slope alcohol consumption, but banning it outright would drive drinking underground (or maybe just into the trees ( ). Next time I'm in Italy, I'll make sure my Camelback is full of something better than water.

post #10 of 12
It was announced in the headlines of the Vail Daily, two days ago-

"Say Goodbye to BB&B"
"Officials from the US Forest Service, Vail Resorts, and the Eagle County Sheriff's Office promise to crack down on Vail's annual, unsanctioned, end of the season blow-out."

It's really too bad!
This locals party, usually held about 1-2 weeks prior to the end of the season, has been held for over twenty years. As a day for the locals to blow off some built up steam after serving the skiing public for the previous 5-6 months, it has grown to well over 1000 attendees. It has always been held at a deck on Vail Mtn, out of sight of all but the most intrepid skiers.

Participants start a week or two in advance, building snowforts for the obligatory snowball fight. Booze starts getting hauled up 2-3 days before, including kegs, and cases. Grills are set up, BBQ's begin early in the day.

Yes, there have been some instances of over the line behaviour, but the authorities have now created a more difficult situation. The locals WILL have their party, but it will go underground, and be less controlled than by having it in the open.

Ironically, the very day this article appeared, right under Ch 2 on Jebbies Deck, a group of approx 50 middle-aged and older people were partying, some wearing tuxedos, chilling in excess of 15 cases of wine in the snow, firing up grills, and making quite the spectacle of themselves. Not to mention, what condition were they in to ski off the mtn after their revelry?

I'm not advocating alcohol consumption while skiing, or out of control behaviour affecting others. But as LM posted, it seems easier to legislate, than educate. And all of us, along with our personal freedoms, are the real losers.

post #11 of 12
Thread Starter 
A little update.
After more reading what litle it's around, it appears that the guy was fined because of reckless behaviour-or something like that- my educated guess was that the policeman decided the guy was skiing out of control or dangerously for other skiers.
I have no idea if he was already warned during the day, but, consider that the Carabinieri, National Police and so forth, are expleting the taks of what in the USA it's Patroller task.
I understand that a patroller, after a couple of warnings, would have retired the pass, right?
BTW,30 Euro it's the price of a dayly pass at many resorts here.
Well, skiing here is not on private land, usually, rather on public land, so, public land + lot of people around, it's a Police forces task. Actually, whenever I see a Policeman around skiing, I try to follow him (them, they are usually paired)
it's the best way to learn something about the place, many are locals and good skiers.
As for the raid, the hut , apparently, had already a record of such things...
As for the law, informations are still somehow vague...
didn't buy the newspapers today... I'm still trying to decide whether it's the usual journalists hype or something more real
But, I have already made my position clear about helmets (my kids do wear one-each). I too like one bombardino (or Gluehwein)
while skiing, but we are discussing excessive quantities here...
And I don't see the difference between a drunk person behind the steering wheel of a car and a drunk person on skis, in both cases a danger for himself and for others.
Separation, I don't think it's correct, and it seems that the separation between boarders, skiers, and different skill levels, idea will be dropped or left to the resorts to decide...
I have friends whom are boarders and with whom I enjoy to ski.
I like to watch a good boarder ripping down a run too, exactly like I like to watcxh a good skier doingthe same thing.
I never had troubles with boarders, only with rude people!
As for liberalism, well, we've surrended some of what are
considered "civil liberties" back in the days of the "red brigades" (communist terrorits who plagued the country back in the '70 and '80; but today, Sunday march 2 2003, two of them killed a Policeman on a train, cold blooded), was reading a book about that during Christmas...But I will not discuss it in here.
Maybe I'll bring up the subject in the longue...I said maybe.
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Another update...
Said law is being discussed since 2000-2001!!!!
I beleive that it will go on forever, then (anyone remember
F. Forshyt sentence in "Dogs of war" about "...anything that has to do with law in Italy moves at snail pace, and an artrithic snail, at that")
Apparently the separation and licence matter will be left
to each resort to decide...
The law is proposing:
-Helmet for everyone under 15 y.o. AND for anyone who is racing, AND for anyone who will have access (thru said licence, issued by a local ski-school) to so called "special runs", regardless of age
-A strong support of the skier responsability code (to this I add that today, already, lacking laws in this area, judges are using the skier responsability code in the cases they are faced with, as support to reach their verdicts, so, the skier responsability code has become a de facto law)
-off-piste (while in a resort) strictly forbidden (aka, it will be allowed to ski only on the groomed runs)
-Obligatory insurance for resorts and for skiers

Surfing thru different forums in taly I've found that a lo of people is thinking to go abroad to ski (at least for the traditional "white week"), thing that I already do since 1997 (I usually spend my half-week/week of skiing holyday in Austria), to hell with Italy!
If anyone is interested into the nightmare of what the Italian legalese can be:
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