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Do shaped skis affect mogul shape?

post #1 of 35
9/26/07 at 2:05pm
Thread Starter 
This is from the "I hate moguls" thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittensinthemist View Post
I loved skiing moguls...in the 1970's! The longer skis just made beautiful long sloping moguls. The old straight skis didn't turn on a dime like the new skis, so when you swung your skis on top of a mogul and either end of your boards was suddenly free so that you could whip your skis around fast, it was a blast! Nowadays the bump runs don't appeal to me so much because the moguls are so short and choppy, not to mention cut up by snowboards, which absolutely destroy moguls. In the old days the ski resorts didn't groom much and they would cultivate a good mogul field because people knew how to ski them and build them up collectively. It's just different now. If anyone knows where I can find a good old fashioned mogul field in the Lake Tahoe area, I'd love to hear it! Anyway, it's ok if you don't like moguls, if you did you'd probably be bemoaning the rarity of a truly good bump run.
I did not ski that often until about 8 years ago and therefore did not spend any time on mogul runs. I have noticed that there are not many regular spaced, uniform moguls to be found. In fact, it seems like moguls are getting more irregular all the time. Is this a product of:
1) Shaped skis as the author of the above quote claims?
2) More bad skiers on mogul runs?
3) Snowboards?
4) My imagination

Or does the shape of the mogul have more to do with slope?
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post #2 of 35
9/26/07 at 2:11pm
The shape and size of moguls is affected moreso by how they are skied rather than what type of skis use the moguls.

to some degree, shaped skis will have an overall effect. What is most noticable is whether skiers are sliding down the faces or snowboarders sliding down the backsides. This ruins the symetry and shapes and causes irregular moguls.

I don't think shaped skis have much effect.
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post #3 of 35
9/26/07 at 3:19pm
Seems that snowboarders tend to slowly "grind/groom" the bumps down, while intermediate skiers on shaped skis tend to cause the irregular shapes. If you only had good bump skiers on the bumps, they would tend to align into very even rhythmic bumps that mirror the even cadence of their turns. IMHO.
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post #4 of 35
9/26/07 at 5:38pm
It's had to find a good bump field these days.
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post #5 of 35
9/26/07 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
It's had to find a good bump field these days.
I've yet to find a bad bump run.
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post #6 of 35
9/26/07 at 7:18pm
Anyone old enough to remember back in the '70s when the conventional wisdom was that short skis were causing steep, choppy, irregular bump shapes. Some areas even had runs marked for 190cm and above. Specifically I remember Thaynes at PCMR.
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post #7 of 35
9/26/07 at 9:43pm
Just go to any place that has mogul comps. Places that have comps will surely have really good bump fields. Many will proabbly have some machine made areas where the bumps are perfectly symmetrical.
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post #8 of 35
9/26/07 at 9:55pm
I think skiers making short turns sculpt tighter moguls.
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post #9 of 35
9/27/07 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
some machine made areas where the bumps are perfectly symmetrical.
There is a machine that makes bumps?:
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post #10 of 35
9/27/07 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt7180 View Post
There is a machine that makes bumps?:
Yeah, I've seen the pics on the home page here but I've never seen machine made bumps in person. I think it would be an interesting experience to run 'em. I skied a competition bump run at ABasin once the day after the comp. Not that there wasn't challenge involved but that was the easiest bump run I've ever skied.

Didn't see those bumps come to life but they didn't look quite as perfect as other's I've seen. I figured they were just carved out by excellent skiers.
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post #11 of 35
9/27/07 at 1:35pm
To me it sounds like some old fart reminiscing about, "the way things used to be" because he can't ski moguls anymore.
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post #12 of 35
9/27/07 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt7180 View Post
There is a machine that makes bumps?:
It's done with a grooming machine. They just dip and lift the front blade in a line down the hill and let skiers finish the rest.

They turn out quite nice.
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post #13 of 35
9/28/07 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
It's done with a grooming machine. They just dip and lift the front blade in a line down the hill and let skiers finish the rest.

They turn out quite nice.
So basically they just create mounds of snow that are formed into moguls. It's not like they just drive down the slop and bam, perfect moguls.
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post #14 of 35
9/29/07 at 7:03am
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post #15 of 35
9/29/07 at 7:11am
Wow! Your bunny hill has bumps!
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post #16 of 35
9/29/07 at 7:44am
Where the hell is that?
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post #17 of 35
9/29/07 at 7:44am
IMO snowboards and wide skis are ruining the bumps. They are too wide to quickly change edges, so they can't carve, and therefore slide in all directions and ruin any rythm to the bumps. I ski all over the Rockies and my expericene is that the nicest roundest most fun bumps to ski tend to be at Taos and Alta where they don't allow snowboards. Spend some time in the bumps at Alt (no boards) one day and then at the adjoining Snowbird (boards) the next day and it is easy to notice the difference.
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post #18 of 35
9/29/07 at 8:07am
No such thing as bad bumps just bads skiers...

I prefer snowbird's weird bumps better because at least they made with round turns on fatter equipment...at alta there are some bumps that my volkls will get wedge in tough line at the bottom of the trough and trips me up....... so annoying. At alta all it is pivot slips bottom of the turn edgeset bumps and they are so annoying to ski on fat ski.
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post #19 of 35
9/29/07 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
At alta all it is pivot slips bottom of the turn edgeset bumps and they are so annoying to ski on fat ski.
OK, I agree, but I think what you are describing are what most people would call good bumps. Good bumps do seem to suck on fat skis.

I'll take any so long as they are made by people moving down the hill. Gosh its annoying when the back sides are all sharp and perpendicular to the slope. Just because its steep doesn't mean people need to hockey stop every turn.
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post #20 of 35
9/29/07 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
OK, I agree, but I think what you are describing are what most people would call good bumps. Good bumps do seem to suck on fat skis.

I'll take any so long as they are made by people moving down the hill. Gosh its annoying when the back sides are all sharp and perpendicular to the slope. Just because its steep doesn't mean people need to hockey stop every turn.
yep moving down the hill is alot nicer IMO.

One of my best buddies I ski with use to ski alot of moguls comps, at alta he rides his tail and just bounces from bump to bump, super fast, super hard and for sure kill me.

That why I love the big round uneven bumps at the bird, he cant ski them because you have to make your own rhythm which he cant do(one trick pony) as I like those so much better. As long as the ruts are big enough to fit whatever ski I have on my feet that day I will probably like the bump run, it just wheneven I start getting ski clanging together from the narrow ruts that I start cursing out old school skier skidding turns on narrow skis.
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post #21 of 35
9/29/07 at 9:52am
FWIW- Those bumps created by machine are referred to as "seeded moguls."
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post #22 of 35
9/29/07 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnys Zoo View Post
FWIW- Those bumps created by machine are referred to as "seeded moguls."
I guess they have to seed them there because otherwise people would just go straight down that bunny slope without making any turns.
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post #23 of 35
9/29/07 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwan1 View Post
Where the hell is that?
I just googled...http://www.caledonskiclub.on.ca/new/...age007.jpg.jpg

Looks like Caledon. They have to do something to make it a little interesting
http://www.caledonskiclub.on.ca/index.cfm?ID=25
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post #24 of 35
9/29/07 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
It's had to find a good bump field these days.
It's the damn gearheads who flatten them with those infernal groomers.
The longest bump run in Washington is along chair 2 at Mt Spokane. They groom one side and leave 2/3 of it's width to grow bumps all year long only filled and altered by nature and the skiers.
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post #25 of 35
9/30/07 at 12:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
They groom one side and leave 2/3 of it's width to grow bumps all year long only filled and altered by nature and the skiers.
Hmmm, the entirety of the bowls of Snowbowl above the Bowl Outrun, are ungroomed all year.

As for irregular moguls, bring 'em on, I ain't afeared o' thim, I ski Griz Chute, dammit.
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post #26 of 35
9/30/07 at 7:26am
Whatif we change the title to:

"Do skiers' shape affect mogul's shape" ?
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post #27 of 35
9/30/07 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Where do they keep the moguls in the summer?
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post #28 of 35
9/30/07 at 10:04pm
I like rounder moguls. Many areas have moguls where each bump has a straight ridge line and is shaped like a diamond which comes from people not making round turns. Linked hockey stops in Z formation isn't my idea of skiing.

I guess if I was more in touch with my absorption skills and just didn't turn at all I would do better in those sorts of bumps. Thats the great thing about skiing always a new thing to learn. And fortunately I have been on my bike so much this summer that my legs are stronger than ever and I should be abel to have much more fine control over a larger range of motion.
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post #29 of 35
9/30/07 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Hmmm, the entirety of the bowls of Snowbowl above the Bowl Outrun, are ungroomed all year.

As for irregular moguls, bring 'em on, I ain't afeared o' thim, I ski Griz Chute, dammit.
We have other runs that never see the groomers also but those groomers seem to believe any run they can get their machine onto must be periodically flattened
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post #30 of 35
9/30/07 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
We have other runs that never see the groomers also but those groomers seem to believe any run they can get their machine onto must be periodically flattened
thats what nice about snowbird most of the mountain cant be groomed, very few winch cat hook ups out there too.
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